We don't need 2-2-2, we need 1-1-2-2

I personally think 2-2-2 is a great step forward, but there is a HUGE difference between main tank and off tank. 2-2-2 is going to improve team comps for sure, but we definitely need to take it 1 step further and separate main tanks and off tanks, otherwise a lot of our games are going to be filled with 2 off-tank players and no main tanks.

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Perhaps remove the player input completely, just get the game to make every single action instead of the player, obviously we can’t have players decide things.

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Overwatch is not a MOBA where you got really too many classes in the game, if you want for example the difference between main tank - offtank, there it should be also for main healer - off healer, normal dps - flanker… this would create even more confusion in matchmaking

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The difference between Main and flex healer and the different types of DPS are negligable when compared to main tank and off tank. Try playing games with 2 off tanks and see just how viable that is. You can however play with 2 flex healers or 2 main healers.

This is not needed because what if you get a hammond player on your team that refuses to swap and your team needs a shield hammond is classed as a main tank and your team would have 0 way to win if this happend.

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By this logic 2-2-2 is pointless because there will still be points when you have bad comps. It’s not about being perfect, it’s about being better. The main tank is the core of the team, whether it be Hammond of a shield tank. The team SHOULD be playing around their main tank, but if there’s no main tank, that’s not possible. 2-2-2 will be filled with off-tanks in that tank slot, whereas if you separate them you’ll guarantee every game has a main tank.

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How is it pointless 2-2-2 is going to reduce the problems in this game by a lot but it cant fix everything but you are trying to make it way too complicated and im sorry but i have met a lot of main tanks who have no idea how to play and even some off tanks can play better than them the game will become a lot more competitive and these off tanks will flex and talk to each other just like the dps will.

But ofc we are going to get bad games nothing will be perfect but its better than it is not with 5 dps every game.

Also why are we playing around main tanks there is 5 other people in the game mains tanks are also chosen around waht the team needs best if we have a full team of 5 people who main dive heroes and the main tank comes along and picks rein its not our job to fill its his.

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Eh, to be fair I really like the Rein + Orisa comp in some situations and a few maps, especially since everyone are running snipers. Easier to just bunker up than to try to chase them. Also, depending on the enemy comp you can definitely run two off-tanks without it hurting the team in any meaningful way. Of course I can’t speak for masters and above but I trust those players can handle it.

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How is it pointless 2-2-2 is going to reduce the problems in this game by a lot but it cant fix everything

This is exactly my point. You sited one counter example of my argument, and it was essentially, someone might pick hammond when you need a shield tank so therefore we shouldn’t do it. That logic is essentially the same as we shouldn’t do 2-2-2 because it doesn’t solve everything, which is faulty logic. 1-1-2-2 would be better, it doesn’t fix all problems, but it’s better than 2-2-2.

im sorry but i have met a lot of main tanks who have no idea how to play and even some off tanks can play better than them the game will become a lot more competitive and these off tanks will flex and talk to each other just like the dps will.

This argument as well could be used to argue against 2-2-2. “I have met a lot of supports who have no idea how to play and even some dps can play better than them, the game will be a lot more competitive because the dps can flex to support.” Your own argument used to go against 2-2-2.

But ofc we are going to get bad games nothing will be perfect but its better than it is not with 5 dps every game.

I 100% agree 2-2-2 is going to be better than we have now, but 1-1-2-2 would be even better because like having 5 dps every game, we’re still going to have 2 off-tanks every game. Let’s just get rid of that.

Also why are we playing around main tanks there is 5 other people in the game

The main tank is the core of the team. Ask any pro or coach, they will tell you that working with your main tank is your best chance of success (even if your main tank doesn’t know what they are doing).

Why stop at 1-1-2-2? Why not 1-1-1-1-1-1? Main tank, off tank, main dps, flanker, main healer, utility support? Much amazing.

Why stop at 1-1-2-2? Why not 1-1-1-1-1-1? Main tank, off tank, main dps, flanker, main healer, utility support? Much amazing.

Because the 2 dps roles don’t need to be separated, and it would be more detrimental. There are times where you want 2 flankers, and times when you want 2 hitscan or projectiles. With support, some characters play both roles and as I said above, the game is viable with 2 main healers or 2 flex healers. It’s not viable with 2 off-tanks.

Just chill. If you have a decent rank as support or dps the tanks will also know how to play.

I agree with your sentiment about off-tanks, but I’m still against any kind of forced comp. At the very most they should limit each role to at least 1 and at most 3.

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If you get 2 off-tanks though, you’re essentially in a similar situation as you were with no role lock. “Just chill, if you have a decent rank, your teammates should know how to play” applies to pre-role lock as well. It’s not about them knowing how to play, it’s about them not playing that role. Off-tanks and main tanks are drastically different, and off-tanks are much more common.

There is more difference between Rein and Orisa than Orisa and D.Va, though. The tanks that can’t adapt will derank, just like all other noobs.

There is more difference between Rein and Orisa than Orisa and D.Va, though.

That is completely false.

The tanks that can’t adapt will derank, just like all other noobs.

Again, you could make the exact same argument about pre 2-2-2. It’s not about adapting tanks, it’s about team comps. The problem with the current system is that you don’t get viable team comps because you get a bunch of players, none of whom can play a certain role. You will get the same problem with 2-2-2 because of the main tank / off tank difference (though granted it’ll be less often than pre 2-2-2).

How is it completely false? Orisa and D.Va relies heavily on the tank’s ability to aim whereas Rein is more about positioning.

We will not get the same problems with 2-2-2. This solution isn’t here to make everything perfect. We will still lose games. The solution is here to give tank and support mains games where they don’t have to play their roles solo.

ofc it would be because what if one of the dps players is not a hitscan player and you need a hitscan for the pharah this change is great actually the problem with overwatch atm is that you need to learn all heroes when you queue up but now when you queue up for comp as tank you only need to learn the 6 tanks … the tanks who dont learn them will not climb its pretty simple.

Always be weary when someone speaks on behalf of the entire playerbase.

“We”?.

How is it completely false? Orisa and D.Va relies heavily on the tank’s ability to aim whereas Rein is more about positioning.

Your understanding of tanks is very lacking if you think this is what makes one similar / different to one another. A main tank’s job is to make space, both Orisa and Rein do this, though granted in different ways. DVa does not make space and she has practically nothing in common with Orisa, unless you include “requires aim” which in an FPS is a horrible metric to base similarities on.

We will not get the same problems with 2-2-2.

I’ve already experienced it on the PTR, exact same problems, double off-tank almost every game.

This solution isn’t here to make everything perfect. We will still lose games.

Yeah, and my solution does that and then takes it one step better.

The solution is here to give tank and support mains games where they don’t have to play their roles solo.

Main tank and off-tank are different roles. They are completely different and play completely differently. My proposed solution does what you are saying 2-2-2 does, only my solution does it better.

1 Like