World of Warcraft: Forever Class Deep Dives — Paladin

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World of Warcraft: Forever Class Deep Dives — Paladin

Stand as a champion of the Light in this World of Warcraft: Forever class deep dive. Discover how Paladin updates strengthen the class’s distinctive Seals and Judgements while expanding options for Holy healing and spell damage, Protection tanking, and Retribution damage.

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Many classes get new build possibilities - will Paladin get any as well?
Perhaps the long time beloved Shockadin in some form?
Currently its not looking to be something that will have any viability?

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Seal Twsiting is one of the most boring rotation a class can have even for classic forever standards its just bad design saw only negative comment about it please change it with exorcism that can be used on any target wit always crit on demon and undead or anythign else

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Wrong forum.

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I’ve read through the whole post. The Holy Conduit talent used to list Hammer of Wrath, which has now been removed. I hope this is not intentional. With the Seal Twisting mechanic, retribution paladins will inevitably run out of mana before even reaching the execute range.

Holy Conduit: (New row 2 talent.) Reduces the mana cost of Consecration, Holy Wrath, and Exorcism by up to 40%.

Also, the Seal Twisting and the way it’s implemented is indeed widely disliked as a capstone talent, same as the Lacerating Strikes for Survival hunters. Those 2 particular capstones need attention as they are unfun/bad.

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Is this an out of season april fools joke?

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I played holy paladin in all classic expansions (vanilla, TBC, WotLK). And the reason I loved it because of its simplicity and single-target power. I love press that one button and keep my tank alive through any damage. I loved WotLK rework with beacon of light. That was perfect improvement of already established playstyle. I put beacon before the fight and then I’d push my beloved button over and over.

I don’t want AoE heal (well, glyph of holy light with splash also felt nice). I don’t like Illumination nerf. I especially don’t like this this Light’s Vigil talent, specifically because it encourages thoughtful and strategic gameplay. The optimal usage of this talent involves putting 5 vigils, starting 25 seconds before AoE, and then holy shocking them all after AoE, delivering huge AoE heal. This is too complicated for me. I don’t want to play like that.

This is huge disappointment for me, as for old holy paladin player.

I hope other paladins will love this rework. I won’t play that paladin and I’d very hard for me to change classes.

My ideal rework would be to add beacon of light. But make it even more powerful. So I can put it on tank and perform 2x healing. Make my flash of light heals really strong. Make Illumination to return 150% of mana cost instead of 50%, so I could gear for crit to deliver EVEN STRONGER heals. All without even thinking about mana. Just let me press Flash of Light all night. Holy paladin single-target healing should be like 5x of any other healer. Other players can CoH, CH, WG and whatever the raid, I don’t care. I want to deliver tank healing and be the best of the best, pressing one button.

And you can remove holy shock altogether. Never liked that ability.

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Holy Paladins excel at sustaining heals on a single target with Flash of Light. Healing an entire party at once requires more planning, but new talents give them tools to step into that role when needed, making them viable healers across all forms of group play.

In the community spirit of criticizing the idea, I have to call out how so out of place the holy paladin feels at the moment in WoW Forever;

  • Almost every talent in the holy tree has been either adjusted to accommodate a DPS version or just simply nerfed.
  • We need to invest 8 talent points just to get our mana regen going, while our signature mana back ability Illumination has been again nerfed
  • Even the new 31 points in the Holy (holy, yeah, the healing tree!) Light’s Vigil talent is so much focused on the DPS aspect of the play. There is no mana refund if you use it for healing and pretty much costs the most mana out of all the multi-target heals of all the healing classes
  • Also speaking about LV, it was said that you can use it to top several raid groups…with a 1.5s casts and a 6 sec CD and 30 sec duration? Realistically, you would only pre-cast that on 2 groups max before a certain boss ability, that can come on a timer! This is a pro-active tool, not a reactive one, so it’s very, very limited already
  • Every single simulation done so far based on the current version of WoW Forever indicates that the healing potential is so, so far behind the other classes, that in some cases even with doubling our HPS we are still behind. Sure, we might bring some buffs on the table, but realistically, those buffs can also come from the DPS paladins, so why would you even bother bringing half a healer to get an extra set of blessings?
  • Finally, just to mention this…in the class panel was said that Holy Pala should excel at single target healing and now you also refer to single target healing via Flash of Ligh…really?! the one heal which actually hits like a wet noodle, even if you x2 the amount, that is supposed to be our single target iconic advantage?

Fundamentally, this class had 3 distinct roles and associated talent trees: holy (healer), protection (tank), retribution (dps). Right now, we’re pretty much in the situation where we have holy (shockadin DPS), prot (tank), retribution (dps).

Holy paladins always struggled, from Vanilla to TBC, but hey, we made it work :wink: …but it’s really saddening that in the quest to bring cool stuff into the game (like the shockadin can be for some) we are downright ignoring and altering one of the core identities and healing class in the book.

hope there is an answer and solution to this

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Salvation: This ability is no longer a Blessing, so a Paladin can now have a Blessing on the target as well as Salvation

It would be very nice to have the same for Freedom as well.

Swift Judgement: (New ability.) New 16-point gold medal talent. No mana cost, 1 minute cooldown. Instantly finishes the remaining cooldown on your Judgement ability and reduces the mana cost of your next Judgement by 100%.
This new ability allows Paladin tanks flexibility to react to a resisted taunt, or even cleverly taunt multiple enemies quickly.

Why doesn’t this also cast judgement? There is no scenario where we just don’t macro this with judgement. Why make us make a macro for this?

Repentance: Now the 21-point gold medal talent instead of the 31-point gold medal talent.

Repentance is too much of a PvP talent to be 21-point. I don’t see anyone who is PvE focused picking it and even for PvP it’s not great. Maybe it could have a different effect on non-humanoids like increased holy dmg taken for a short duration?

greater build flexibility to seal twist with Twist of Light or focus on Holy damage by hybridizing into Holy Shock

I think there is some misunderstanding here. Without SoB, twisting will only add SoR to our damage. Twisting vs Holy Shock is basicly SoR vs Holy Shock. They both deal holy damage and scale off of spell power. I don’t enjoy twisting and it seems unreasonable to make it the 31-point ret talent.

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Hey guys, so, we’re going to nerf you even more. Screw that currently literally every class can steal threat from you WITH salvation, it needs to be MOAR. Hell, screw that warriors Revenge at rank 2 is currently stronger than your Holy Strike Rank 8.

Also, we made Warriors the AoE tank, reduced the damage they take when they AoE tank and you guys get.. Wait for it. Drum roll please.
No functional taunt and if you’re not actually tanking something in a raid, well haha. You’ll be OOM in, oh about, 30s.

We also removed your iconic Blessing of Sanctuary and then decided that the retribution aura buff we gave you instead? Yeah, we nerfed that one back to original values. We know that TBC raised Righteous Fury to 90% so you could compete with the other 2 tanks in terms of threat (you still couldn’t because we forced you to overbuild defense, block and dodge in order to be uncrushable - sacrificing spell power), but somehow thought that it wasn’t necessary in Forever even though you have less abilities to.. you know.. get and maintain threat with and still have to overbuild defense, block, dodge and parry.

We’ve not fixed the glaring issue of uncrushability either and have decided that we think it’s not at all awkward for a tank having to body pull every single thing in the game, who wants to pull mobs safely anyway. Hope you enjoy!

How can you miss the mark so spectacularly when Prot Paladins have been telling you for weeks that their kit does not work anymore.
At this point I will just roll druid.

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Bring back WOLK RET. Make it deeper in other ways then the rotation. Most dont care. Just want a fun rotation. Twisting is a bug this is a bug report.

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First of all, best idea to roll a proper healer is NOT to pick a paladin, sadly.
And, please…
Can the respected devs or any clever fellow Warriors of Light explain: where should we get mana for putting LV on each group DURING the fight, assuming the fight lasts longer than 30 deconds (and LV that was casted preamptively has already been expired).
LV cost is 1340 mana per cast.

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Keep int/str as a passive /gives 2sp 2ap 1crit And for Holy forget about (bacon of light) Lets do (bounce of light) target to target like chain heal. Just make it faster and heal for less. would be super fun!

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I just want WTLK Ret. Hope it changes before launch. It dictates what most paladins will play.

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can we also have specific seal animation and sound effects. Noone is missing seal of matyrdom or seal of blood voice/animation? it was badass. We can replace seal of command with that.

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Can we stop with the bandaid trying to make shockadin our best spec, cause atm it sims higher than and better than any of the 3 specs in whatever you’re trying to achieve.

can we just get 3 solid specs to play with that are actually good to play with, the current capstones are not fun and improvements to the gameplay at all, there’s zero incentive to play attack power as retribution, holy paladin has many performance issues, prot paladin gets holy shield way to late and lacks its iconic aoe threat legit getting outshined by a warrior on aoe threat at this point, what is the direction we want to go with paladin? so we can reconsider if we want to play an actual solid class/spec before we launch the game.

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Hi team, thanks for the Paladin deep dive and for the work on Forever. I’m playing Holy Paladin in the beta and want to give constructive feedback on mana, since it seems to conflict with the class’s intended role.

What the deep dive says
The class is described as one of the strongest single-target healers, built around Flash of Light for sustained tank healing. I like that direction, and it fits what Holy Paladin has always been.

What I’m seeing

  1. Mana sustain is a problem for a sustained single-target healer. As I understand it, Holy Paladin has 30% in-combat regen, and Illumination now refunds only 50%. That makes long fights hard.
  2. Mana regen costs a lot of talent points. Getting it online takes a large share of the Holy tree before the class feels sustainable.
  3. Light’s Vigil is mana-hungry for how it works. It’s a planned, pre-cast tool, and at roughly 1,340 mana per cast it’s hard to use during a long fight. Using it for healing also doesn’t seem to refund mana.

Suggestions (open to any approach)

  • Raise the in-combat regen, or make Illumination refund more, so the goal of a long-lasting single-target healer can actually be met.
  • Give Light’s Vigil a mana refund or a lower cost when used for healing.
  • Review the number of talent points needed to reach baseline mana sustain.

Other community analysis
These creators have also looked at the Holy talent tree, and their concerns line up with the feedback above:

Thanks

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Current Holy tree has way TOO MANY Dps talents (way more than ANY other healer tree), utterly useless for a healer.
The sustain is terrible, and gamepaly mechanic is unchanged, same FL spam. No new healing spells whatsoever.
Rotation is the same, Holy Shock from time to time, but it is weak, more of Oh shi* button.
So it is a weaker iteration of vanilla paladin with useless 31 capstone for 1600+ mana. RIP.

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