Rogue rework: More direct damage, less bleed/poison

WoW: Forever WoW: Forever General Discussion
1

Hi everyone,

I’ve been playing Rogue for a while, and I’m honestly quite disappointed with the direction the class is taking in Forever. Blizzard seems to be pushing Rogue towards a poison/bleed-focused playstyle, which I really dislike. Why not focus on improving direct damage instead?

I’ve always played a Backstab/Ambush build, and I feel like this playstyle just doesn’t work anymore. The class feels underwhelming, doesn’t deal enough damage, and PvP is even worse.

The Subtlety tree really deserves a rework. It needs more mobility options and, above all, stronger sources of direct damage, especially Backstab. I’d much rather see improvements to the classic Rogue playstyle than be pushed towards a poison/bleed build.

Regarding Death Mark:

If Death Mark works the way I think it does, spending combo points to apply a mark for 6 seconds then explode, i don’t see much value in it. Most players will probably prefer to spend those combo points on a big Eviscerate rather than invest talent points into Death Mark. Unless the mark’s damage is high enough to justify the extra setup and resource cost, I don’t see why it would be worth taking.

A few simple changes that could help:

  • Increase Backstab’s base damage, reducing its crit chance if necessary to keep it balanced. And remove the extra combo point if needed.

  • Add Shadowstep as the 31-point talent in the Subtlety tree. This would give Subtlety the mobility it desperately needs, especially in PvP.

  • Bring back the original energy tick system. Energy regeneration is a core part of Rogue gameplay, and the original system felt much better.

  • Cutthroat is simply not worth the investment. Spending that many talent points for just a 15% chance to use Ambush again feels extremely underwhelming, especially so deep into the Subtlety tree. I’d much rather spend those points on more useful talents like Cold Blood, Improved Sprint, etc.

  • Rework sub tree. Most of the tree need a major rework.

I’d really like to see the classic Backstab/Ambush playstyle become viable again, especially in PvP, instead of having Rogue revolve around poisons and bleeds. The class needs more impactful direct damage and better mobility to feel satisfying to play.

4 Likes
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I can’t wait to just ice block all death marks damage. Blizzard is clearly focusing on building Sub for PvE for some reason.

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also give cloak of shadow, give 2 vanish on a 3min cd timer, and remove preparation

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I dont understand where did they get the idea to push sub as pve spec. I would argue CoS to be capstone instead shadowstep or deathmark, to add to mobility, cause that would allow also restealth with vanish, if you have dots, mark, ff and other million things in forever that makes rogues not possible to stealth.

Lot of stuff doesnt make sense in sub. Combat - same old ss + SnD “fun”. But hey now you dont need to IEA, because thats dogsh** now.

Assasination - goes into trash if there is poison immunity.

1 Like
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I’m sorry but am I reading this wrong? More generic damage and less flavourful aspects? Bleeds and poisons I feel are quintessential rogue gameplay, they’re not making art, they’re making corpses, they don’t go for the beautiful one thrust kill, slash them a dozen times and let them bleed out or apply the poisoners art and let them fade away.

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I don’t want to play a cheap dot spec. We must have the choice to do it, or not. I miss the good old rogue bursting target with embush and BS with big numbers. They don’t have to remove poison and bleed, just give us the choice. Big burst with raw damages, or bleed/poison over time.

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Assassination: poison

Combat: stick swinger

Subtlety: Burst opener with bleeds for consistent damage.

That’s how I’ve understood the “vision” for the specs.

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Ended up doing a lot more damage as Sub compared to Combat in the beta. Some random told me it was a skill issue.

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All they need to do is ensure that not every new dungeon is like Dalaran where 95% of the mobs are immune to bleeds/poisons.

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Resistances and immunities will likely be dependent on location or mob type.