I wouldn’t put it quite as strongly, but I do agree insofar that Classic isn’t Vanilla WoW. It may be the same graphics and mostly the same mechanics, but it’s not the same people, not the same “spirit”. The Zeitgeist is completely different.
The people who play Classic are either former Retail players or otherwise “modern gamers”. What made Vanilla memorable wasn’t the gameplay for me (I came from other MMOs that were more complex and offered more freedom), but the community. And Classic doesn’t have that same community. It has, largely, the same community as any other modern MMO or live service game. I could squeeze myself into a pair of jeans from the 1990s, but that doesn’t make me the same person I was in the 1990s.
As for the new player experience in modern WoW, I should sit down and write down my impressions as a returning player on a new account, after several years of not playing, before it fades away more. In a nutshell, I think the main issue is lack of story streamlining paired with information and quest overflow. It’s a very incoherent experience with a poor pacing. I can see why Classic may be a better choice from that perspective (that of compact game or pacing), but only from that perspective. Modern WoW is otherwise much more accessible and engaging.
Modern WoW’s “issue”, perhaps, is how end game (newest expansion) centric it is. But this has been an issue since at least TBC. Even in Vanilla, a year in, leveling dungeons were deserted on smaller servers.
As someone who has played both retail since 2007 and classic since 2019 I can tell you this advice is not good.
I’ll tell you why from my own perspective.
Classic SoD in it’s current for is not new-player friendly. At all. The name of the game is minmaxing and choosing the meta spec and meta runes. Like always there are exceptions and guilds that take everyone but if you pug (and yes you will pug) you’ll encounter a lot of people that have very low patience for new players. Close to everyone assumes people on SoD are players that have played classec era before.
Now that aspect aside it’s by far the most convoluted and new player- unfriendly version of wow there is. It’s vanilla, so slow leveling is still a thing, drinking after 2-3 mobs is a thing, running a lot is a thing: to the trainer, across zones to dungeons or for quests. Then you have the runes that you won’t find on your own mostly, so you’ll have to go on wowhead or ask in worldchat and get lucky someone actually answers. Oh and these runes work differently than all other spells in the game.
Other side of the coin? The meta of RMT as I like to call it. Gold is slow earned but used for everything. Gear/consumes on the ah is inflated because of goldsellers and buyers, you can bypass running if you buy a summon frm the many locks that have 3 accounts and stand around all day (but are totally not goldsellers).
Meanwhile retail has better looking gfx, leveling that won’t take weeks, a better talent system, not much extra systems at endgame like in previous expansions (looking at you shadowlands), way better gameplay, 90% of classes and specs are viable, a LOT of casual content at max level. I can go on.
I find it ironic though that in 3 years tops (assuming he stuck it out that long), Jimmy too will be coming to forums to lament that sometimes he wants to solo stuff and do things by himself and why is there not enough stuff in the game that he can do by himself. Just like every other WoW player.
What you really mean is agree or please don’t comment. Always the basis for a good discussion!
I happen to agree, go to the echo chamber of classic and pat each other on the back about how awesome it is instead of trying to lend credibility to an old discussion by pointing out the quantity of echo chamber views.
I disagree. They just deny the arguments right now because in their eyes it is just another Streamer is doing something or that they say that it is saying Retail is bad because Classic is better in something.
That is no basis for a discussion.
If I would say we do not need to listen to you because you play Pandaren and no furry has ever delivered something worth listening too, would you still want me in a discussion?
If your answer is no than this is his viewpoint that you just criticized.
If its the same old rhoteric then maybe there’s definitely a problem if new players keep screeming the same thing over and over again, maybe listen. And for an mvp to be so dismissive of this as well, but i guess you’re just mirroring what blizzard are like.
Pretty wild how any good faith arguments were thrown out of the window by Punyelf herself, by just dismissing my thread I put 2 hours into by “bashing retail”. While it was only comparing retail and classic from a new player’s perspective.
Yeah nah, I’m going to react in the same dismissal way. In no way did I mean this to be an echochamber, but if you’re going to whine and dismay any criticism to retail bashing, there’s the door.
Besides, there was no credibility from Punyelf’s post, because the WHOLE ENTIRE THREAD was put away as retail bashing, while I made the comparison of the content creator laid out, and retail had some positives over classic.
So please, take your bad faith arguments to another thread, thank you.
Never owned a Commodore 64 myself, but my mother’s boyfriend did.
I had a NES, then a Sega Megadrive and then I slowly started to convert to more ‘pc-esque’ stuff: I bought an Amiga from money I had saved up when I was … I want to say 12-13 ish.
iPhones had not been released yet, the average person had never heard of ‘LGBTQ’, loot boxes did not exist except in Korea, Twttr (f.k.a. Twitter, now known as X) launched, ‘me too’ wasn’t a thing, the PS3 was released (and near the end of the year the Wii), Garry’s Mod was released, blu-ray was announced and introduced, TBC was still being developed.
As Puny has already said, opinion is subjective on Retail and Classic versions of WoW - and I make no bones about it when I say that this is absolutely a post made to bash on Retail and it is not even subtly disguised. It is blatantly obvious.
FYI - Retail is far superior to Classic and the general opinion of it is great, even if you don’t like it.
Life was simpler, I remember only having internet for a couple hours a day while sat at my desktop PC as WAP (the predecessor to 2g) was both phenomenally slow and ludicrously expensive.
As a result people looked forward to spending 2-3 hours a day on their PC playing wow, I wonder if this “always online” capability we now have has destroyed that sense of appreciation and with it, the wonder that came from the days of vanilla, and the internet in general.
Online gaming wasn’t ‘the norm’ back then. So yeah, it was ‘something new to explore’ (even though I had been playing a korean grinder MMORPG with rl friends prior to playing WoW - WoW was definitely beyond what we had played before).
Mmmh don’t think it was that, at least not for me. We were playing through cable internet, so that wasn’t limited. But yeah, new experiences are usually the best I think. So that’s where the appreciation came from; there hadn’t been anything quite like WoW before that time.
I have to say though… I never imagined that almost 20 years later I’d still be playing WoW (although I did have a multiyear break during cata/mop).
You just can’t compare Classic and Retail. Classic is a true MMORPG in every aspect, Retail might be prettier, but in reality it’s just a +1 simulator (mounts, pets, transmog, etc) and instanced content treadmill (raid, m+ and bg/arenas). So yes, if a person wants to experience true MMORPG spirit, Classic is the way.
Apologies I wasn’t referring to 2 hours due to dial up, more practical concerns, my phone lives with me at all times, a PC doesn’t, but due to the limitations of phones, and mobile internet in 2004, I was effectively only online at the PC. I remember dial up as well though where even the idea of sending a message and it arriving relatively instantly compared to fax or post, was impressive.
This alone tells me that despite Blizzard’s missteps over the years, it’s still the best MMO in town.
There isn’t a problem, that’s the thing. Hence my entire pointing out it’s a minority that make these posts. If three people hold up a placard yelling about something, that doesn’t make it necessary. The majority do not want Classic to become Retail. This is people not being satisfied with Classic alone and wanting to inflict their way elsewhere. Retail has a lot of different players it caters too but Classic already has it’s own version of the game, several in fact - Era, Hardcore, SoD, Wrath.
I do love how people think an MVP isn’t entitled to have their own opinions. All of you who feel the need to use my label as a means to bash me are so out of order. I am allowed to not want Classic in Retail the same as ALL the other players who don’t want Classic in Retail. There is no rule that I give up my right to my own views just because I post in green.
So maybe start actually trying to discuss the topic and stop making it about bashing me. Every person who speaks against the inflicting of Classic in this thread is attacked or it’s reverted back to me. There is something very wrong with that.
