Afterlife Cinematic of Uther - not a retcon

You provided a definition and the happening of Bastion (outside the soul splitting) do not fit in it.

The sentence could have been said after he was already brought in front of the Arbiter which means it adds nothing new to the part of Uther that got ripped nor to him when he was alive.

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Did he say “Light, save my soul” when he died in Warcraft 3? No.

Then it’s something new.

Anything new, added or removed from an old piece of information, is a retcon.

Yes, even something that tiny!

It’s that simple guys, it’s not a taboo word, it’s not the end of the world, I like it retconned too, the word ‘retcon’ is not automatically evil, we can live with it!

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Not only that, but the spirit healers are literally kyrians. Something strange is going on.

Wasn’t it explained after the questions about potential time skips, that the time in shadowlands feels like it is in a dream? It feels like a lot of time passes, but in reality - a lot less.

It make me think that in some way the ending of “6th sense” is also a retcon.

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Are you blind or what?

HE MIGHT HAVE SAID IT AFTER HE GOT CARRIED AWAY!

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He said “Light save my soul” AFTER he got stabbed DURING the blank screen which CAN POSSIBLY ALSO MEAN DURING his soul split into two. Yes there is a possibility :+1: Which also means this is NOT a retcon as it is a continuation of an erstwhile event. It is also not CANON because it is something completely new…

No he has not said “Light save my soul” and he doesnt utter those words. It clearly happens when the sword is plunged into him, screen goes dark and cinematic is told from Uthers perspective, that’s the difference from game. As a viewer you are able to see Uthers side of the story and his thoughts not his words.

The new information does not change the old one and does not give new interpretation to already pre established lore. It stays the same. The cinematic gives the perspective of a character and his thoughts. End of story.

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I mean if we really want to grasp at the “Light, save my soul” quote alone we’re also going to ignore the entire soul splitting. The Afterlife Cinematic of Uther is a retcon, no matter how you spin it.

That doesn’t mean it’s bad.

But what can I say guys, I think I explained things pretty well, if you disagree you’re free to rewrite the English dictionary.

That’s the thing the given definition of the term has ONE condition - that any given information doesnt change already pre established lore or gives new interpretation to it, which in this case it fits the requirements. Those last thoughts does not affect the what we already knew or change the flow of events. It is a perspective inside characters head.

This sort of treatment is addressed in many other writing styles to give more detailed understanding of situation. Has been used many times in WoW as well.

The soul splitting though… even though it doesnt make old lore absolete it does give new perspective to already established lore which is a retcon.

But that’s already a new interpretation.

Uther was praying for his soul as he died, whereas in the original he was cursing Arthas to hell.

The soul splitting is a consequent of Uther praying for his soul. These are not really separate events where we argue one is a retcon and the other isn’t.

The premise of the topic is “Afterlife Cinematic of Uther - not a retcon”, but at least we can agree that it is.

Edit: And to be precise, the condition for a retcon is revising something retrospectively. Typically by introducing a piece of new information. The end result is the same, we’re all interpreting Uther’s death differently now that the Afterlife cinematic is out.

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Again, there’s difference between saying one thing out loud and thinking something introspectively.

Yes we do.

Because you get to see his own side of story. Similarly as how you got to know Arthas’ story from his perspective compared to how it was told in WC3.

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About the soul splitting part, has there been a part in WC3 in which we saw Uther ghost which doesn’t really fit in him being absorbed? I know for sure that this happened in WoW at his monument during Vanilla and TBC.

The problem with soul splitting part is that beforehand we knew Frostmourne claimed the soul and that was all. So that spirit of Uther we saw in ICC was considered Uther as whole, this piece brings new interpretation of his soul being devided while one who forgave Arthas was stuck in Frostmourne and the rest who was hellbent on Vengeance was sent to SL.

Now if that is case only for Uther or no, still contradicts what we knew before about Frostmourne

Yeah I am aware of this. I was asking because Uther appearing at his tombal monument has been one of WoW contradictions which lived long enough to be just accepted as “it happened”. What happened in Bastion is a kind of “fix” to this (still a retcon most likely).

we don’t know that yet…the spirit in question did not give any indication whether it was a whole spirit or not. If we look at Varian’s case for instance, until the lore took us to the two Varians, it was difficult for any characters in that story to figure out whether the gladiator Varian or the King Varian were different entities . Same goes for Uther’s spirit…it’s pure speculation at best.

The humane soul that forgave Arthas is no longer in Frostmourne - as it was destroyed. Its exact location is not yet known. I speculate (given the possible fact that Frostmourne is an artifact of the Maw) that the other part is probably in the Maw but it did get a window of time to stay back free from the sword to roam on Azeroth - the time it took for Bolvar to assume full control of the Helm of Domination. Once he became the new Lich King, the helm’s binding towards the souls Arthas claimed forced the now stranded souls back to the Maw.

@Justicesoul I don’t remember Uther’s soul making an apperence in WC3 but he did make appearences in TBC and Vanilla but you will notice that Terenus’s (Arthas’s Father) spirit was also outside Frostmmourne when he was advising Arthas to mind his defenses when Tirion and all of us were attacking Icecrown. It could be that powerful souls like Terenus or Uther (a part of him i.e.) who was consumed by the runeblade had the ability to get out of Frostmourne but still cannot get the ultimate release of Death as they are still bound to the blade. If we consider Terenus’s example then that part of Uther’s spirit - the one consumed by Frostmourne might also roam around Azeroth - bound to the blade - not being released to the Shadowlands yet (or even to the Maw as the blade was still intact then) After Frostmourne broke all the souls were released including the half of Uther’s soul but there was a window of time before Bolvar took the Lich King’s responsibility (remember it took Arthas several days to assume full command of Helm of domination). We submitted a quest to Uther in that window of time where he then narrates about how he forgave Athas and how he considered him as a friend. But later when Bolvar took full control of the Helm, he probably unwittingly sent all those stranded souls back to the Maw including Uther’s but until then as long as one of the Maw artifacts were intact these souls were bound either way and the Maw is “inescapable”.

Remember what Sylvanas said to Bolvar before breaking the HoD - “This world is a prison” - brings a lot of things into perspective :slight_smile:

I’m not quite getting the question sorry. But his appearance in Azeroth could be explained by his frostmourne spirit still being lingering in living side as we do not know what happened to all those souls freed by frostmourne.

Similar instances of soul splitting scenarios required actual reunition of both sides to make “whole” - Thrall and Varian for instance.

Kyrian Uther is a separate thing itself imo.

I hope that’s what you meant.

Yes you got it and I can see your resoning.

Hopefully we get to do the same with Uther, I would hate for him not to have a compelling and good ending.

But in this case we know that there were two split spirits and the one in ICC manifested from Frostmourne, trapped inside the blade.

Anyway what I was saying up until now we knew that there was only one soul of Uther and it was in blade. We did not have the knowledge of this piece of info, after introducing it the old lore is altered and open for new interpretation, that’s why it’s considered retcon.

I think I answered that in my previous post.

Being out of Frostmourne but still in its proximity is a thing, being in a complete different continent si another. Also Uther looked almost fine but that can be speculated about.

“This world is a prison” my man…as long as you are bound to the HoD and/or Frostmourne you are also bound to “the world” where they are located. That was what the runes in the blade probably meant - as part of its spell…

Possible but waaaaaay far fetched.