Draka is actually alive and leads the Orcs in Nagrand in the AU, Geya’rah herself says as much; “My Mother leads a Garrison is Nagrand”. I don’t think Grommash is dead either, its very unlikely Yrel killed him and that he died off-screen, though Durotan, supposedly, falling to their hand is a fair enough sentiment to have.
Because Turalyons interactions with Orcs are all from the Warcraft 1 and 2 Era, in which canonically they were just:
I mean they literally have units that are made to turn land demon-corrupt and that spawn literal-satan in Warcraft 1 and 2.
She was literally ride-or-die for Sylvanas despite it all, and Sylvanas, per the Sylvanas Book: wanted to send everyone to the maw to empower the jailer and break the cycle. She wanted to send everyone to mega hell as fuel for the Jailer.
The only thing which appropriateness I’m questioning atm is your temperament regarding this discussion.
1 Like
I’ve not played the PTR, so I can’t comment on it yet, but the last couple of times orcs have had screentime when he’s been involved(Mostly BfA), they’ve been mostly monsters.
1 Like
He isn’t wrong, though.
He came back and the Horde and their Orcs started a new World War with a genocidal campaign(War of Thorns) against his allies in the Alliance(the Night Elves).
Lmao, Turalyon calling them savages is probably a compliment for them
do you think she’s going to survive when the main mag’har force is dead or left to Azeroth
Oh so it’s okay to think badly of a race (orcs) because you’ve had terrible interactions with them, but not okay to think badly of a race (draenei) because you’ve had terrible interactions with them.
I asked this in the other thread, but why wouldn’t she be? At what point should she have turned on Sylvanas and for what reason? She came in during the war, her next appearance was when Baine was arrested (for killing a bunch of Horde soldiers and turning over a prisoner to the enemy), and then swapped back after the whole “the Horde are nothing” speech.
She was clearly intended as a parallel to Nazgrim to Garrosh - an orc who valued ‘loyalty’. Nazgrim’s generally well regarded, both in universe and out, and doesn’t get accused of being “Orc Hitler”.
So why the weirdness towards Geya’rah?
Okay.
Ok perhaps a couple of people here should take a step back before the thread derails into a back and forth argument. <3
From a Pandaren point, both are worse. Neither faction needs a reason or an excuse for their imperialistic ambitions, all they need is opportunities. None of them gave a damn about the collateral damage caused in the Jade Forest and all the following warfronts as long as they could ravage and conquer to their pleasure, or as long as their enemies are eradicated to the last. While orcs are shown as genocidal, savage monsters more often than not, the Alliance is never content with leaving other races alone simply because they need enemies to justify the reason to stand as a single military block that could overrule the needs of each specific race or state separately. It’s the reality few admit and even fewer can do something against, and this peace will definitely not last forever. Not for the last remaining neutral continent-spanning state, at least.
8 Likes
When it comes to that quest, they unecessarily complicated things by making Yrel and that version of Xe’ra some kind of brainwashing force.
The scenario could have just been about Eitrigg demanding AU Horde to pay their debts and the Mag’har saying yes after dealing with local threats that the clans can’t deal with because Yrel and Xe’ra have successfully proselytized the young and impressionable minds of younger Orcs to adhere to Draenei lifestyle with all the religious and technological progress that comes with abandoning the unsafe and dangerous clanic life… It’s not like this wouldn’t work since Yrel is technically right there with Durotan and Grommash as the slayers of Archimonde and Gul’dan, she definitely would gain enough cred among the Orcs.
Making this a schism in three ways of the Grommash/Old ways of Orcish life on Draenor with all its dangers, glory and the inherent link to their traditions and ancestry; The Durotani centrists who is basically don’t want a war but is torn apart between the Orcish ways and the obvious benefits of staying on good terms with the Draenei even if it means continuously losing their youth to a life more attractive; Finally you have these new wave Orcs who embrace the changes brought by tighter contact with Draenei and embracing some changes some faster than others. The Mag’har from AU we play being from one of these three groups over another group of angry dudes.
I suppose you really need a trillion, not billion dollars company to think about this.
2 Likes
I don’t really see the point being made here? The Orcs at the time of Warcraft 1 and 2 lore are objectively, from a narrative, Blizzard standpoint supposed to be extremely evil demon machines, it was the entire design purpose of playing them in the Warcraft 1 and 2 campaigns. I don’t really think Turalyon being against a people who he has only ever seen demon-corrupt his land and mass-ritual-sacrifice his people to summon literal Satan is really at all similar?
She says in the Maghar questing that she will join the Horde if Eitrigg and [Champion] embody the ideals and heart of the Horde, but then she proceeds to go against both of those people in BfA? Doesn’t really line up to me. We saved her and she viewed us as the heart and soul of the Horde? Why does she suddenly forsake that view?
I don’t think Nazgrim is any much better tbh, the only apologetic thing about him is that he got stopped alongside Garrosh before Garrosh could go any further and make Grommash blush with his sheer level of atrocities. Not sure what others think of Nazgrim but that’s my thoughts on that.
Though I do have a memory of him having a moment if you bring Gammon with him? Where he regrets his stance in the end and if that isn’t just a conjuration from my memory then that does add a level of sympathy to him.
2 Likes
Nazgrim makes it very clear that its no hard feelings and he would still stand there regardless of who is Warchief.
Geya’rah very deliberately chooses to be on Sylvanas side.
1 Like
The point is that you’re calling Geya’rah “Female Orc Hitler” for extremely understandable feelings towards the Draenei given her history, while making excuses for Turalyon (the dude who tortures+kidnaps refugees) to not be tarred with the same brush.
The actual nature of orcs or draenei is immaterial, because it’s about the character’s perspectives and viewpoints.
Again, what reason is she given to not be?
We know, as players, reasons to side against Sylvanas. We’ve got access to wowpedia.
What reason did Geya’rah have?
I’m sure it’s been stated already but the Horde are the ‘worse’ faction–both in terms of their moral alignment and in the quality of their writing–but that’s really Blizzard’s fault on account of the shoddy and inconsistent writing that they suffered, particularly in MoP->WoD and BfA.
11 Likes
The Horde.
It self-evident as soon as you read any bit of the story in the last 6 expansions.
It isn’t even worth elaborating it.
6 Likes
She is also notably fully subservient and complacent to Grommash and Sylvanas which I feel is a bit of a very important distinction to make with her and Turalyon.
She didn’t think to question why every other leader (except Gallywix) turned against Sylvanas? Or why Sylvanas was dividing the Horde so thorouhgly? She didn’t think to ask us and Eitrigg, both who help the rebellion, and both whom she considers the heart and soul of the Horde what’s going on/what’s up? Her reason should be that both the people who saved her life + the life of her people turned against Sylvanas Horde extremely quickly in the face of what she was doing. That should have logically made her contemplate her decision given she joined the Horde on the premise that it embodied Eitrigg and the [Champion].
5 Likes
Experiencing a genocidal conflict as the intended target of said genocide might make one inclined to be less interested in waging a total war with the goal of the complete and utter extermination of the enemy
8 Likes
There could have been really good moral nuance with Saurfang leading the charge into Ashenvale in the War of Thorns if it wasn’t just a murderhobo ploy by Sylvanas. The Horde, contending with their guilt over a bloodsoaked past and the fact that they need to fight for their right to exist (or so they believe).
Instead, he willingly wanders into a bloodbath based on a faulty premise and then proceeds to be Sad Orc Grandpa afterwards.
10 Likes
“There could have been nuance” pretty much sums up the majority of wow’s storytelling atm.
17 Likes
His grumbling abouts the honor of the Old Horde is also something I found a bit…off.
It’s clear he doesn’t mean Thrall’s Horde, but something before it. The only issue there is, the only time the orc clans were united before Thrall was as an actual demonic army.
The honorable past he longs for never existed in the way he speaks of it.
3 Likes
I’m just going to skip ahead and say ^^ THIS ^^
2 Likes