Kinda tired of Arabic-demands as a Swede…
If we implement X language - Why not Y; list goes on.
Arguments to be had; Amount of players from Z region surpasses Q region; Hence it should be prioritised.
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You are misinformed about the Arab world.
In my country (Egypt), the government and their backed media may say bad things about another Arab country, but business is conducted as usual.
Standard Arabic is the variety taught in schools in ALL Arab speaking countries (yes, ALL without ANY exception). There is NO other dialect taught in schools in any Arab country. All Arabic speaking children learn it at school starting from the age of 4 until they finish high school. It is the dialect used in almost all printed books, in all government documents, in news, in prayers, in mosques, in most Arabic websites, in the UI of almost all localized mobile apps and desktop apps, etc.
In some countries, a non Arabic speaking child may learn Kurdish or Amazigh (totally different languages not dialects of Arabic) at school, but when it comes to Arabic, Standard is the ONLY variety taught in schools.
While I don’t speak the Standard with friends and family and don’t feel comfortable speaking it, and would make a lot of grammar mistakes when speaking it because my native tongue is Egyptian Arabic, I understand Standard Arabic as easily as I understand Egyptian Arabic and so does all Arabs.
Sunni, Sufi, etc. are religious sects and has nothing to do with the language. There is no such thing as “Sunni Arabic” or “Sufi Arabic”. Just like an American Catholic speaks the same language as an American Protestant, an Arab Muslim (Sunni, or Sufi, or whatever) speaks the same dialect as an Arab Christian. Dialects vary by region not by religion.
Yeah, an Arabic UI would be great, but they’d have to censor half of Dragonflight, lol. Can’t go five feet in that game without running into another same-sex couple.
What makes you thing that a person who wants Arabic doesn’t want Hindi?
I don’t mind if they support all the spoken languages in the world.
It’s not about number of people speaking the language, it’s about number of players speaking the language and how much they pay.
I don’t have numbers about the game.
For example UAE (population 11 million including foreigners) has about the same purchasing power as Egypt (population 112 million).
India has about 8 times the GDP of UAE despite having 100 times the population.
Players from Egypt for example may not spend a lot on the game shop (if they buy the game at all). But players from Arab Gulf countries for example are more likely to.
I played in an Arabic speaking guild during the WoD expansion. It was a big guild (3 Mythic raiding teams). I was the only Egyptian, most were Saudis, with some Emiratis, and 1 Kuwaiti and 1 Qatari. They used to make drawings on the ground using thousands of gold worth of fish feasts before every boss pull. They didn’t sell boosts or anything. It was all gold purchases with tokens. On one occasion, one guild member decided to gift gold to all raiders (3 Mythic raid teams). He gifted 5 million gold to every single raider after Legion launch (I was not raiding at that time, so I wasn’t one of those who received gold). It was all gold purchases with tokens (iirc it was about more than 30K euros spent by a single player in a single day).
So it all come to a business decision. If 50% of your company’s income comes from 5% of your customers, then need make those customers happy. No one cares about nationalities, ethnicities, continents, or EU or whatever in that case.
People can want and ask whatever they want, the question is why do you care?
I told you and I’ll keep repeating it, Blizzard won’t translate WoW for DEI, only in hopes to get money. Catalan won’t bring them money, neither will any strawman you keep bringing up. Arabic? Maybe, if the upfront investment wasn’t so high.
There aren’t servers in Spain, Italy or the UK, just shows how much you understand. They translated the game to major languages, ones they foresaw would return the investment, and that was when WoW was in development and didn’t have as much text or voice lines. Slowly adding them expansion by expansion isn’t as scary financially.
Or maybe you’re just looking for stuff that isn’t there. Wanting the game to be in your language is natural, recognizing that there are a lot of people who speak that language is a reasonable argument.
Are people asking for Polish, Ukrainian, and Turkish clients asking for DEI? Or do they just realize their languages are some of the most spoken in Europe/the world?
At the end of the day it’s Blizzard’s calculus to decide if they do anything about it or not, and it’s very unlikely to happen. You could have just scrolled past this thread and ignore it if you have nothing constructive to say but you decided to cry about DEI, with a pretty stupid argument like “nobody but the elite understand MSA”, if I may add.
Correct. It is a business decision.
And if UAE has enough players, then they will do like they did with China: Open a new region just for them. And THEN they will get their client in their language. As you mentioned, some gulf countries dont have any issues paying for that.
But until then, UAE players will be treated just like Polish players. Or players from Norway, or Portugal. Or players from Kenya, or Madagascar.
That is the business decision that should be taken. And that is the business decision Blizzard has taken for the past 20 years.
Now. That is not what people are asking here.
What people are asking is to have a client in Arabic inspite not having enough players to justify their own servers for their own region. Like the French and Germans for example. And in that case, why do UAE people have preference over Poles, or Sweedes, or Kenyans? They dont.
That is my point. So coments like these, in the context of what some people are asking here:
I do mind. There are ~ 700 official languages recognized by countries. And ~ 7000 languages in total. Its impossible and impractical to translate WoW to all those languages.
As I said. Either we translate to ALL languages or NONE of the languages.
And if one region in particular has enough players to make it economical, then they get their own servers. As FR and DE did.
That is not my experience in the Oil Rigs near Mersa Matruh and Ras Gharib (the specific places I was stationed in Egypt). Or in Irak, Afganistan, Morocco and Algeria.
In those places MSA was not as useful as I thought. Because the local baker, the children in the street, and the workers there in general had… at best… maybe 6 years of school to begin with. In Afghanistan if someone went to school at all he was an outlier.
So if spoke MSA to them they would look at me weird. Pause for a second and maybe answer in Egyptian Dialect.
And the what locals told me is that MSA shares some words and pronunciation with Egyptian Dialects, so they could bridge meaning to what was being said.
However. The farther away you are from Saudi, the more the local dialects diverge from MSA and the harder it is to pull of what the Egyptians were doing with MSA. And I experienced this is Morocco and Algeria. And if you get close to Iran (Shia Muslims) their local dialect comes from Persian, not from Arab. So they have an even harder time to bridge the gap.
That was with “normal” people in the streets. With normal jobs and so on. The local baker, the workers at the rig, the truck drivers… ect…
However. When I spoke with someone with an education, or western quality education things changed. They did know MSA perfectly. But they ALSO knew English or French perfectly as well. So there was no need to even speak MSA to begin with. And when you had 2 of those individuals, from different parts of the Muslim world they would default to English or French instead of MSA.
And you seem to be the latter. With an education, and as I can read, perfect English. So no need to have MSA as a bridge between us to communicate.
When I went to say… South America for example that is something else. The local dialects people speak there are all Spanish. PERIOD. 1 language and you can communicate with anyone. Weather they went to school or not. Rich or poor. Did not matter.
So putting MSA at the same level as Spanish is false IMO. As a language, Spanish is the superior language to communicate in a whole region of the world. MSA on the other hand, is not as useful as Spanish was.
If theoretically feasible, which it isn’t, sure, I’d want WoW to have as many languages as possible be an option in the UI. Arabic included. Don’t see any good reason not to.
Right. Call it as you wish, but in my character selection page when I click “change server” it has a list of realms: English, Spanish, Italian, German, French and Russian.
And curiously enough, you can get WoW client in those 5 languages ONLY.
And you had serious limitations to playing with people in from different regions. For example, you can only invite people to your guild that belong to the same region. I cannot invite my DE friends for example. They have been improving this, and it is possible today by using BNet friends and things like that. But it wasent even possible for many years.
Why not Polish then? Why not Portuguese? Why not Irish? Why not Sweed, or Norwegian?
So people can ask for whatever they want. And if I disagree I have to shut up?
Dont use the “free speech card” because it works both ways.
Like I said. I am against all “I am special” arguments. From clients in some languages, to dissabilities, to anything that people might want to justify as being special.
Because nobody is special. We are all equal and the same on this world. For good and for bad.
So if its important for some to have WoW in their language, you have to be equally fair to other languages as well. Like the EU languages that still dont have a client.
I will repeat again:
- Either Arabs get their own client (like the Russians have) and then they can figure out on their own what language they want to use (like Russian/Ukraine at the moment). This is 100% fine with me. Its a business decision of Blizzard.
- But if all people are asking is for WoW to be translated into Arab with out a client, then I want it as well for Polish, Portuguese, for Sweed, Norwegian, Dutch (my native language), Greek, Irish… ect… Because Arabs are not special.
And FYI:
This “nobody but the Elites understand MSA” is not something I pull off from my hat. Its a counter argument to the statement “MSA is spoken by 400M people, and thus, more important than any EU language”. Well it isent.
And my statements come from the 8 years of experience I had all over the Middle East working for Schlumberger. Which can be resumed to the following:
I spend 5 years learning MSA. I go talk to locals and they barelly understand me (if anything at all), and if they do they respond in Local Dialect. So I used up 5 years of my life to learn MSA for no practical usefullness and I have to walk arround with a translator to the local dialect anywais. And when I communicate with my local piers they all speak English perfectly and we default to that.
That is not something I would call… “usefull”…
Or maybe they do and you’re just projecting your real life grievances on all this.
Are you the DEI regulator? Nobody said they have preference they’re asking in the same way Polish, Ukrainians and Turks are asking for their own client and realms.
Again what is it to you? Do you have stocks in Microsoft? Are you mad your language won’t get a client? Because you’re just being negative crying “everyone or no one”. No that’s not how this works, Blizzard decides what language and realms they create if any. And it will either be one, or a few, or none, but it will definitely won’t be everyone.
It’s not curious at all, just countries that are big and were generally better financially than Poland, Ukraine or Turkey in 2004.
Why not another strawman? Poles and Swedes are free to ask for a client and realm if they want, so stop using them for your gatekeeping.
I don’t see anything valuable in you disagreeing here you keep crying that Arabs are not special and like I said it seems like you’re just venting your grievances about working with people that didn’t have more than 6 years in school.
You’re arguing with yourself. No one in this thread even implied it but you.
My opinion boils down to this.
If those people asked for a translated version of WoW my answer would be the same as with Arabs. And I would answer the same way: Why not Arabs then?
Nobody is special.
Lets put it this way. If some of your neighbors circulate the awesome idea of building a new pool in your neighborhood… Dont you think its a valid question to ask: “at what cost and who will pay for this?”.
Nothing is free in this world. And Blizzard/Microsoft, is a big company but still has finite resources/man hours to do things. If they are economically viable (which is a separate discussion).
So again. Translation to all official languages yes. But at what cost?
Who said that? I am not venting about Arabs, nor do I have any problems with people that did not have more than 6 years in school. All I said is that I had to learn Egyptian Dialect to speak with them.
I only have a problem with the claim “400M people speak MSA”. If that were the case then I would not have experienced what I did. And to match that claim I have a contrasting experience in Latin America with Spanish. A language with 499M speakers that CAN claim to be the universal language of a whole region of the planet.
Yes they did. On the title that sais: Arabic UI option.
Arabic is not special. Not any more special than any other language.
So the title should read:
Expand language UI options. To more languages besides those in which wow has realms. Arab included.
So you don’t plan on helping anyone, just depress all suggestions equally? Anyone can understand you can’t please everyone. But objecting out of spite doesn’t benefit anyone.
What, you think it will cost us a raid tier or something? I’m sure blizzard has more than enough money to hire translators if they wanted to.
Stop backseat managing Blizzard, whether they do or don’t it has nothing to do with what you say.
All you do is spread negativity.
Better than helping just 1 person and throw many others under the bus.
Its not out of spite. That is what you misinterpret from my intentions. I explained why I believe nobody is special, and why the most fair thing to in situations like this is to do is nothing at all. Or in other words, give nobody preference.
If they have “more than enough money to hire translators” as you claim then by your own logic they have “more than enough money to give us TWO raid tiers instead of one”. Except that language translation benefits a few people, and 2 raid tiers benefits the whole player-base regardless of language or region. Which one would you choose, and which one seems more fair to you?
I am not backseat managing Blizzard. I am being realistic. EVERYTHING has a cost. I cannot say exactly what that cost is because I dont run Blizzard. But I am 100% it does. Because blizzard lives in the same planet as we do and money dosent grow on trees (or dropped by random critters you kill in a forest like in WoW).
And just like me, Blizzard has opportunity costs as well. By deciding to do one thing, by definition you decide not to do other things. Its an Axiom of being alive.
So I continue to ask: At what cost? I dont know how much. I only know it will.
I spread common sense. Not negativity.
Except you can’t throw money at a wall and get more raid tiers. It requires devs with experience in the field.
Except you keep crying that Arabs are not special, a claim that no one said but you. If you don’t see how bad it looks on you then I can’t help you.
I could say the same for translations. You need more translators with experience in the field to properly translate a game like WoW.
The question is what do you do? You hire 300 translators or 300 devs ? You cant have both because of opportunity costs, and because if you could choose both then the question would be 600 devs or 600 translators, or 300/300. So you are forced to make a choice.
And this is just a made up example of some made up hypothetical situation that does not exist. I am sure that Blizzard inner workings are even more complex than that. But I am 100% certain they also have opportunity costs in whatever it is they do in California.
Isent this post about Arabs? Then why are you shocked to hear me say Arabs are not special. If the post title read “Polish UI option” I would be speaking about Poles saying how they also are not special.
And what about “how bad it looks on me”. What exactly are you accusing me of? Say it out loud, so everyone else can see how you look like.
Again, you gatekeep based on the premise of everyone (not a realistic option) or no one.
You gatekeep it to Europe, even though the Middle East and Africa have no other server to turn to. That’s what I’m accusing you of, is it clear enough to you?
Unless Blizzard makes new servers for the Middle East and Africa this is their server too, Europeans aren’t special either.
I left my opinions clear enough. But I will say it again just in case:
Yes I said that. Let me give you an example of what that means: Unless MSA becomes an official language in FRANCE, FR realms should only have French client. Same for DE, ES, UK, IT, and RU realms.
If you STILL want MSA as a client language in those servers, then we are in the catch 22 situation of: There are more countries with official languages (not just EU countries) than realms. So its the “everyone or nobody” situation. The most fair thing to do is nothing <— this is why I say NO to Arab client.
OR. Alternatively give Arabs their own region. THEN they can have an MSA (or local dialects, their choice) client, and if I want to play there I better learn MSA. Like they have to do if they play in say… FR realms with French.
And the same also applies to US and Oceania regions by the way. Not only EU. It just happens to be the EU forum where we are.
Is it clear by now?
Except you make no sense. Arabs having an Arab client doesn’t hurt anyone. Does the Portuguese realm bother you? It doesn’t have its own group, the client was mainly made for Brazil, but European Portuguese can enjoy it as well.
No this is a very nihilistic approach. If I can’t save all people in the world the most fair is to help no one? How about helping those I can?
In this context how about giving a client to those that financially justify it?
BTW if they get a client they can get some realms for them. Italians only have 2 realms after all.
So if they can justify a client of course they can justify a tab with 2 realms on it.
The way you argue makes me feel like you either have no idea what you’re talking about or you argue in bad faith.
It hurst those that also dont have a translated version of the game. Which is what the OP said “Arabic UI option”. And the list can get very long if you include Africa. Not to mention other EU countries.
European Portuguese play in EU realms because of latency.
And the Brazilians have their own servers. Its literally this:
I am perfectly OK with this. And by the way, Brazilian servers are NOT in EU region. Because of technical reasons (too far away, too much lag). EU region is EU region for a reason, and it has nothing to do with politics.
Is anyone dying of starvation here? YES? Dump all available resources to that. Priority #1.
Is it a video-game? Then NO. What is the cost of this?
Even helping people has a cost you know. The money I give to NGOs dosent grow on trees. The money goverments spend on aid/wellfare comes from my taxes. I agree and support all that.
But not a videogame. Sorry.
So I will ask again… at what cost?
SURE ! That is what I already said… YISH !
And not only realms, preferebly their own region as well. Because of technical reasons (not political, in case you acuse me of something I am not saying). Just like the Brazilians.
It doesn’t, that’s just jealousy. Despite nothing bad happening to them some people just can’t stomach others getting something good.
Except you made up that problem which won’t happen just to shoot down the suggestion. Not that I see what’s wrong with Arabs not having their own realm group, but if that slams the door on that then I can assure you they will get their own realm group.
Maybe if you don’t want to argue for naught start using words properly, words have meaning.
There are 5 regions in WoW, Americas, Europe, China, Korea and Taiwan. Brazil don’t have their own region, they have a realm group in the Americas, and they can apply to American English groups in the LFG just like Russians and Germans can here to English groups.
This is what OP said:
That is not a realm. That is a translation of the game with out a realm.
And that is what my opion was: (A) MSA dosent exist as a functional language (so I raised the question WHICH arab dialect would that menu be in) and (B) it is unfar to those that also dont have a “menu/UI option” in their language.
Literally that.
Which is why I edited the quote you cite to be extra clear:
What problem? I proposed a solution.
And if you are so sure there arent enough players in the whole Middle East to justify a region then why would there be enough players to justify investing in an Arab translation of the game, to the detriment of all the other regions with out translation?
People were throwing arround numbers like “400M MSA speakers”… I am sure that with those statistics, which are much larger than the 23M inhabitants of Taiwan, can justify their own region.
Saudi Arabia alone has 36M people, plus UAE (9.5) and Turkey (83M). Plus Morroco (37M). Those countries with good purchasing power should be more than enough to justify a region. If Korea and Taiwan got theirs.
And that is with out including the rest of the Middle East. Cause if we start counting Egipt, Pakistan and Iran we can get some ridiculous population numbers.