Arcane Mage

[Grigory-burning-legion]

Well if you want full control i.e. direct damage, then we’re back to square one: pure ST turret that can’t cleave because Barrage doesn’t play nice with ST dps, and cooldowns won’t really help in the long run. 8s cleave from Touch, 20s cleave from Deathborne, and you’re tank-tier DPS again. Sure, my proposed solution of exploding Blast passive isn’t very tidy or nice, but it doesn’t have to conform to someone’s sense of aesthetics or OCD. It has to WORK, that is: give us some cleave that is NOT on long cooldown. Or, idk, Nether Tempest baseline and tuned so it beats ST rotation on 2-3 targets but AE is better on 4?

@Vîndy-ravencrest

DH is literally designed as a mindless cleave machine

…that WORKS VERY WELL DESPITE BEING EZ MODE. And THAT is what matters. They’re easy yet well-performing & have a tool to deal pretty much everything. You know, sort of like old Arcane. The Wrath one. The one that COULD cast ranged AoE spells and, with some talent tinkering, boost them to ridiculous levels of DPS despite in theory being ST turret.

@Vîndy-ravencrest

put some resources into class design and fix things

Which sadly is the one thing we know Blizz is the most unlikely to do. As they have proven time and again, unless they’re STRONGLY pressured into behaving semi-decently, they won’t. And even then they will react in some knee-jerk fashion out of pure spite, like that corruption vendor with time-based inventory. Or putting Missiles back on 3-stack, but not putting its proc on “chance on spellcast” mechanics so it’s not of much use.

Edit: Forgot to add that Barrage is so bloody “smart” that it won’t hit ANYTHING that is not in combat with you, even if it WILL be 0,000001s after spell cast. And it selects targets by proximity first, then randomly if there are more targets than spell projectiles. No RNG, eh?

[Violet-argent-dawn]

Touch would be awful if it wasn’t active, or, to be more specific, Arcane Echo would feel awful if Touch wasn’t active. RNG over such an important AoE ability, potentially not proccing when you need it, but proccing when you do – it would just be an awful feeling. Not to mention, they would need to nerf the actual proc rate, so it would be more like every 45s in order to keep it from being insane under a good burst of RNG.

I usually like RNG, good RNG, like Time Anomaly (argue with me on that as you will), where it can fundamentally change how you play, even if it means your numbers fluctuate… but Touch as a passive only works without Arcane Echo, or it’s just a big ball of frustration.

It’s a very, very small price to pay for the beauty that is Arcane Echo. I can understand the PvPers saying their insta-4 charge shouldn’t be tied to an interruptible cast, and I agree there, but that’s a case for it to be instant cast, not a passive.

Arcane Echo fills the void of Arcane and it does it in a really fun way that makes the spec play different during TotM windows (early testing has an enjoyable missile spam, but is likely to be toned back due to how strong it is atm), it also makes us potentially viable in high-end M+, since we’re not as dependent on being a squishy clothie in melee for AoE, at least not all the time.

If any casts should be off the GCD, it should be AP or Deathborne, not Touch.

Edit:

@Grigory-burning-legion

Edit: Forgot to add that Barrage is so bloody “smart” that it won’t hit ANYTHING that is not in combat with you, even if it WILL be 0,000001s after spell cast. And it selects targets by proximity first, then randomly if there are more targets than spell projectiles. No RNG, eh?

This is not a bad thing. Consider bosses like the big boy in Waycrest Manor, the huge hitboxes they have, and you really don’t want to be clipping mobs you’re out of combat with – this is something Blizzard has been fixing across the board. It’s a smart move and ABarr isn’t your typical opening spell anyway.

Also, the RNG over what ABarr hits after its projectile number is really not relevant or important enough to make a point over.

[Grigory-burning-legion]

@Violet-argent-dawn

really not relevant or important enough

Oh I’m aware, just demonstrating I can be a nitpicker too & I really HATE this “dumb tracking”, should be ignoring Polymorphed targets, but really, not hitting stuff because it didn’t fire on me yet, when you KNOW it’s going to… That’s self-destructive path of pacifism and tolerance -__-

Arcane Echo looks useful… TOO useful in fact. If there will be predictable short cleave period every 45s or so, it’s going to be go-to option, otherwise Resonance, and NT stays dead as usual.

@Violet-argent-dawn

If any casts should be off the GCD, it should be AP and Deathborne

Fixed that for you

That would be it for me today, having fun rn watching the trollercoaster fueled by insane amounts of seething hatred, suddenly overflowing from every channel on EU Burning Legion. Fascinating, really, how allegedly sentient beings can behave that way. Like experimenting on rats, only there are some things rats just won’t do, but humans will

[Vîndy-ravencrest (Vîndy)]

@Grigory-burning-legion

Well if you want full control i.e. direct damage, then we’re back to square one: pure ST turret that can’t cleave because Barrage doesn’t play nice with ST dps, and cooldowns won’t really help in the long run.

Solution to lacking cleave is simple really.

1. Tune Barrage to do good cleave damage.
2. Make Arcane Orb baseline to allow more frequent Barrages into the rotation.
3. Profit!
   There’s no reason to ask for old badly designed talents. Them being functional, doesn’t mean they are healthy for the class.

@Grigory-burning-legion

…that WORKS VERY WELL DESPITE BEING EZ MODE. And THAT is what matters.

Having something that is functional mostly because it’s overtuned, doesn’t make it good for the game.
I’m pretty sure DH has the least spells out of any class, but also has the least weaknesses, due to how overstacked their abilities are.

@Grigory-burning-legion

Which sadly is the one thing we know Blizz is the most unlikely to do. As they have proven time and again, unless they’re STRONGLY pressured into behaving semi-decently, they won’t.

They are unlikely to do anything, since not enough people are whining about it.
Go to the beta class forums, mages are bottom 4 on replies, despite being quite a popular class. Meanwhile Shamans and Priests that have the top replies, got the most changes.

Due to mage being a 3-dps specs class, most people just roll with the best spec and forget the other two, instead of sending feedback for improvements, and leave them to rot in blizzards clueless hands.

@Grigory-burning-legion

Edit: Forgot to add that Barrage is so bloody “smart” that it won’t hit ANYTHING that is not in combat with you, even if it WILL be 0,000001s after spell cast. And it selects targets by proximity first, then randomly if there are more targets than spell projectiles. No RNG, eh?

The combat thingy sure is annoying sometimes, but having it hit targets out of combat is quite often a larger negative. I’m personally fine with it, since it lets me choose who I want to hit.

As for the target RNG, it doesn’t matter one bit in this case.

You know that you’re pressing a cleaving spell, it’s players choice.

You know that your main target takes the most damage, so if you wanna kill a specific mob, you can just switch your target.

And secondary target missiles don’t hit Polymorphed targets, so the worst that could happen is break Frost Nova root on a secondary target. And if you didn’t want to break the root, then it’s your fault for pressing Barrage on a nearby enemy.

[Grigory-burning-legion]

You don’t have to reply to the same post twice

[Keben-silvermoon]

I thought I’d give Arcane a go for Shadowlands so I started levelling a new mage. I don’t know how but a bug with Arcane Barrage is saw was reported in 2018 is still present. It will only hit 1 target so many times (especially if they are rooted) for no reason at all regardless if they are in combat with you. It’s broken as hell. Can forget using it as any kind of aoe until that’s fixed.

[Minnji-eonar]

Uh… what bug? That wasn’t very clear

[Keben-silvermoon]

Let me elaborate then. Here is part of the tooltip for arcane barrage:

‘For each Arcane Charge, deals 30% additional damage and hits 1 additional nearby target for 40% of its damage.’

Now go get 4 arcane charges go find a few mobs round them up and frost nova them close together and fire off an arcane barrage at one. It will usually hit only 1 target and deal regular damage. A bug that has been in the game for 2+ years and is still not fixed. Not even in the SL beta. Until that bug is fixed Arcane spec is broken.

[Minnji-eonar]

Huh, I will try. Used to run Arcane a lor in dungeons and it never came up.