Yep agreee 
% they didnt fix THE class they just did a we donât see THE problem Heres Gear that fix it for a Short Time not permanently. I mean they buffed mage 4 Times quickly at start of THE expansion now Shadows dogfod and sn along with THE legendarys are kind of dogfod bad and uncomftrable to play with which put other classes ahead even more in big aoes
Given we we werenât going to see a redesign to shadows aoe rotation in a raid patch I donât exactly know what you wanted or expected. The fact blizzard changed the set bonus to help with the problem in the short term should tell you they know the problem existsâŚ
Do I wanna see a redesign to shadows aoe rotation? Absolutely. Just it was never coming in 9.2, and a load of aoe cleave damage on a set bonus absolutely does help the short term.
my searing nightmare right now hits for 3mil while a monk spinning crane kick hits for 7.5k mil were is the balance there
Stop moving the goalposts. You said it doesnât help, it does.
Does it do enough? We donât know yet.
Does it make us the strongest aoe spec in the game? Probably not
Does it make SN feel less garbage to play? No.
Does it help? Absolutely. Itâs a load of free damage you donât have to play well to deal.
well am given up on blizzard fixing their balance on this class its a mimic ever since after cataclysm. Yet no addresses to the core game class only sad excuses with sloppy joe promises with gear and borrowed systems and nerfs and lacking aoe and sustain problems.
Have you tried rebuilding your shadow priest gear for AoE output? I made a few changes to Ellipsis build and could sim 23,167 DPS on 5 targetsâŚ
The two main talents I changed to were, shadow crash and Searing Nightmare. Single target dps in the sim remained above 9k for Ellipsisâs normal and changed spec.
Shadow Crash and Searing Nightmare is better as well by a small amount (500dps) for a single boss and 2 cleave targets.
Basically the sim is telling me Ellipsisâs talents should be changed to maintain single target damage as current but prevent the massive reduction in multi target damage of the current spec he/she is using.
Really it is worth trying and see if it pans out in real logs.
For example my build for holy priest matched at ilvl 215, builds with FC at 250 ilvl in LFR without using FC but divine image. This works because lego are not far apart in the sim, once you add other healers, how you play. The lego variation is too small about 300hps.
Check out the first three boss which I did first time and only once.
Lets hope Microsoft can fix this weak specc
What is there to fix? Shadow has good AoE if you pick the correct talents.
You are again talking numbers just like you did in all the beta discussions. The problem is how it feels doing the damage and the fact that our only real aoe is from talents, not the numbers. Just because the numbers are there, it doesnât mean it feels any good to play
The problem for the two people who repeatedly post in this thread does actually seem to be the numbers. They reference them repeatedly, despite being incorrect. Unless of course the numbers are from their own experience playing the spec.
The gameplay is also bad, but at least we all agree on that. The shade from the new tier set helps reduce the gulf between good and bad shadows, as well as makes misery comparatively better. Itâs still worse than SN, but itâs not absolute gutter damage like it was prior.
There was the same thread the last expansion. People followed websites or discord instead of changing their talents. I changed my talents and had less problems. Most of the telents I see are whats higher in simc for single target. Well hereâs the thing, those single target builds destroy your AoE in other sims. You will get 17k instead of 23k maximum with good gear. This still gives you 9k+ single target with the same gear.
If you wont spec the AoE talents then of course the AoE is going to be reduced. [QuĂĄtin] has the same AoE nerfed build, that [EllipsĂŹs] has at the moment. I stated the talents you need to switch too.
[QuĂĄtin]
Their Normal spec.
ST 5035 dps
5 targets
10435dps
Two talents changed
ST 4932dps
5 targets
12552dps
[EllipsĂŹs]
Their Normal spec.
ST 9,825 DPS
5 targets
17,051 DPS
Two talents changed
ST 9,535 DPS
5 targets
23,219 DPS
Thus for a small reduction of single target you too can have your AoE pie and eat it. Just change two talents. With EllipsĂŹs you can see that just changing the talents leads to a very small reduction in single target and a massive increase in AoE output.
I would investigate the Searing Nightmare change. It sims 23,302 DPS against 5 targets with EllipsĂŹsâs gear and still gives 9,537 DPS single target. The sim appears to think that this is a choice of talent issue. You have overly focused on single target dps to the point you have massively reduced AoE damage output. The better balance between the two gives you 6168 more AoE dps by using Searing Nightmare in the sim. This leads to a small reduction in single target dps.
Try using Searing Nightmare in your build. See if that works better.
I wonât pretend to play Shadow at anything near a competitive level, but I do have to agree with this sentiment. Being forced to pick between Searing Nightmare or Misery is what it is, but Iâm at a point where - having the Mindbender leggo - itâs a clunky semi rotation to do reliable AoE damage. Maybe I should just rely on the leggo and forego SN entirely by now, gods know I wouldnât miss the extra hotbar action.
When I was actively playing, I ran with a grp that had 2 that was good at aoe, so they wanted me to just go ST, so that bosses and prio targets would go down quicker. And on explosive weeks have me focus the explosives, so that they didnât have to waste a gcd on them
Why do you make the assumption I do m+ in my current talents?
Sfp isnât a substitute for sn. You kinda use both until pulls are 8+ mobs, at which point you stop proccing rifts and basically spam SN. If you do keys where pulls are rarely if ever smaller than 8, you run pallid command.
As for the extra keybind SN takes up, you can set up a macro on a spell youâd never cast during mind sear (Shadow word pain is the best choice) to change to searing nightmare during mind sear channels. I can grab the macro once Iâm not on my phone.
Everyone should be running searing nightmare, shadow crash, and Mindbender in keys. You can even consider running ancient madness if you really need burst aoe. Death and madness is great for lower keys and helps make managing insanity between pulls very easy, but in higher keys more experienced shadows tend to drop it for fortress of the mind.
Shadows aoe is a clunky mess, but Iâm sick and tired of people saying the spec doesnât do aoe damage.
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As far as I know heâs been making assumptions since SL beta, and probably has for much longer. And he generally never bring anything productive to shadow threads, seeing as heâs a holy main, whoâs only goal is to troll all shadow posts
Hereâs the macro for SWP + SN
#showtooltip
/cast [channeling:Mind Sear,talent:3/3] Searing Nightmare; Shadow Word: Pain
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Searing Nightmare sims higher for AoE with a little reduction in single target dps. All checked are not using Searing Nightmare, yet not doing so will reduce AoE dps by large amounts. If the logs support this then you should always be using Searing Nightmare as a talent.
Losing a few 100dps Single Target is worth the 1000âs of dps you get for AoE in the sim. By ignoring Searing Nightmare you will 100% be complaining about shadows lack of AoE.
If the fight is pure single target then replace Searing Nightmare. Or balance which talents are better for each boss.
This is what the sim tell me. I should expect you all to have specâed the Searing Nightmare telant.
And there the assumptions goes again. IK how to play shadow! You are just stating the obvious over and over again. When do you realize that we know the numbers are kinda there? But most refuse to or reluctantly actually play with the talents because the gameplay of it feels awful
Searing nightmare sees zero play outside of M+ and the occaisional pad log on Sylvanas or Soulrender / Rokalo.
Everyone should spec into it for keys, and then spec something else for world content / torghast / raids. Itâs not uncommon to log out without searing nightmare, it doesnât somehow mean weâre incapable of playing it where itâs correct to do so.
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You have an agenda, I get it.
I can see in the logs that Searing Nightmare is more powerful in logs.
Warcraft logs current Raid
Searing Nightmare is mean 9,348.25 dps, Twist of Fate is 9,100.96 dps and Misery is 8,732.98 dps. Basically Twist of Fate and Misery are part of the worst three talents. 70.50% use Twist of Fate. In the talent statistics Searing Nightmare is almost on power with Auspicious Spirits with a mean of 9,359.43 dps vs Searing Nightmare is mean 9,348.25 dps.
Basically using this information players should avoid both Twist of Fate and Misery. So it appears that warcraft logs looks more like the sim output but here Searing Nightmare is found statistics wise more powerful than Twist of Fate.
This is ignoring the maximums, in which the logs show a small reduction in maximums. Here Searing Nightmare is behind by the same amount shown in the sim. Searing Nightmare 11,540.94 dps and Twist of Fate 11,732.31 dps. This is tiny amounts of dps. If you are already well over 9k dps single target then I dont see you not being over 9k dps single target after changing to Searing Nightmare.
This lends more validity to the arguement that Searing Nightmare should be the talent you pick. Even so Twist of Fate is only approx. 260 dps lower for most logs.
This is the best I can do atm to prove that you can have higher AoE damage and still have decent single target damage.