I agree entirely.
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So an alternative system could be the following: They could make the ilvl throughout the season go up a way higher amount than now, and make the gearing process way longer, but if you are fully geared, then you can avoid or simplify mechanics by doing big dps, so at the end of the season, if you are fully geared, mythic raiding is similar to how hard heroic was at the start of the season. This way the mythic difficulty at the start can be preserved for the guilds that want the challenge, and at the end of the season it becomes content for players like myself.
tldr: So the carrot on the stick would be to make your ilvl as high as you can to be able to clear the mythic raid at the end. Then they would have to make the ilvl go up higher and it would need to be more grindy to get ilvl.
Most people’s low DPS is because they have no clue how to play their spec, not because they lack gear.
Take me: I do like 150k dps max as a shadow priest, with an aug evoker in the party. I have pretty damn good gear with me being at 447. Then when I’m healing, which is my main spec, I see shadow priests with worse gear doing same or higher DPS. Doesn’t matter how much gear you would feed me, a shadow priest that plays better in worse gear is gonna pull the same DPS or better than me.
I mean if you can’t do your dps properly, you shouldn’t rly do the mythic raid. However, I described a scenario, where your ilvl would go now up to 457, and it would make mythic aberrus or example at the end of the season feel like heroic, if your full raid is fully geared and can use their char properly without necessarily having to deal with overly complex mechanics. However, I would then also make 1 upgrade cost 2 or even 3 aspect crests, so it becomes grindy, and rewards guilds for starting to progress mythic earlier with 460 gear.
Bruh.
Nerfs are more impactful than obtaining gear for most people as far as mythic raiding is concerned.
I just tried to think of a way to make heroic raiders able to work towards mythic raiding in a reasonable way without removing the early challenge for all these hardcore guilds
Remove the hard 20-man cap. Roster is the biggest enemy of guilds raiding mythic.
Maybe. Because I feel like I should be trying to clear the mythic raid atm with my current progress and the fact I cleared aberrus heroic now like 15 times (actually more close to 20) and even tanked it on a 411 ilvl char. At this point I feel like the next step would definitely be to raid mythic, but the jump in difficulty, organization, and time is extreme in my opinion. Do I really wanna raid with a 20 man roster with fixed time schedules using 10 spreadsheets and prepping hard? not really. In heroic I could do it with random players easily the third week or something with whatever group size I wanted.
What I mean is that the upwards difficulty progression is too heavily tied on organization, skill, and guilds, when imo it should be tied to your character progression too, and these 3 things should only be important at the start of the season.
But yeah, removing the 20-man-hardcap would be the best way to make people like me try out mythic raiding for sure.
You can go at heroic raid with 10 friends but then you want to step into mythic? Nope. You need to be 20. No more, no less. 20 people only.
well you are kinda right - since there is literaly 0 content for casuals it is casual friendly because only thing they can do is farm transmg which is by definition very easy and casual friendly
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That’s just not true.
Guy that I play m+ with when he’s available:
He still does +20s(He’s the one I played with to +26 in SL) in m+ this season, while having several kids to take care of on top of him studying. He does the raid on heroic when he can find the time to.
Guy plays a lot less than a lot of the people that dub themselves “casuals”.
tbf I reached a skill level now I think, where I will be able to clear +20ies in a year, even if I play 1 hour a week. Even though I haven’t done keys higher than +20, +20 feels extremely easy for me. I made a vengeance DH and I’ve +3 a +16 with 413 ilvl, and then willingly put my key down a level to +2 the next +18…
I would go higher than +20, but I see no reason to do it, because I’m not interested in competing for 0.1% without a premade group
There is one condition to that :
ie not forcing me into content I don’t like.
Power gain is power gain. If it’s not good enough to make a difference, as you say, then what’s the point of progressing if it’s not that good ?!
So gear or the lack of AP ?! I don’t follow !
I didn’t know about that. I’m glad Blizzard will not try to over engineer such complex system any time soon.
I mean, sure but they failed in balancing that, which is why I don’t trust them to come up with a better idea. Heck, even MOP cloack had pvp tied but…I didn’t end up hating on BG back then. That hefty 50k though…
From an RPG point of view, we don’t progress an account, we progress characters, so account wide essences were against that idea, even if I think they should have been account wide from the start rather than in the following pacth.
I mean, just being able to buy legiondaries was a good idea, so was buying corruptions too sad these came way too late. So that’s why I don’t believe they would fix this massive flaw.
You’ve said that removing gear from M+ and raid would kill these game modes, right ? Then handing the same rewards in way easier and accessible content would, since those players that want gear can get their ways without the headache.
Gearing is easy this patch anyways so…shrug.
At the same time, having a system like AP wouldn’t mean they’re gonna end up following that curve and would just stick to farm AP by doing WQ.
Even being near 3K and CE raider it’s hard for me too. That’s just gaming community in general acting like entitled karen to get the “best comp” ever.
Sure, but at the same time, doing harder content which would end up in a downgrade didn’t feel good either, and that’s mostly been my experience. Looting a heroic piece of gear that would end up as a downgrade compared to a TF WQ item didn’t feel god.
I fail to see how is my mentality a problem.
Which is, as I’ve said many times, wrong. I do would like content outside of raiding.
Sadly, they were entry barrier, wether you like it or not.
And as I’ve pointed I wouldn’t have minded about AP if it was something I could progress without interfering with my main content.
I’m doing casual content too, what the hell are you on about ?!
So I’ve been openly about content and progression systems outside of raiding, that would never interact with raiding, which I could also consume, yet, you claim I don’t want that ?! Do I speak english ?!
I’m saying there was probably a sweet spot middle ground to reach.
Frankly, last step towards would be removing the great vault as many raiders are actually disliking running 8 keys per week.
I do hate the vault for other reasons than being an incentive to do pvp or M+, rather the fact it’s mostly been giving me straight up downgrades.
That does not answer the question as to why AP being its own ecosystem would be bad. Like, It could live on its own and being disbaled in raids or Pvp, it would still give casual players that don’t participate in PVE or PVP that progression anyways.
I mean, I disliked AP changes from Legion to BFA. That’s one of the reason as to why I didn’t like it, aka all my expansion long progression gone ending up with my class feeling worse and being nerfed for…no reason. We could have kept those weapon and added traits upon.
Frankly, I’m not disatisfied with SL, but like with WoD I do understand issues.
I think they should aim for a middle ground but given Blizzard history, I doubt they would ever reach that.
Still, why is that ? Can’t freaking AP be its own ecosystem ?!
In Legion we had :
-talents
-artifact weapon
In BFA we had :
-Heart of Azeroth
-Azerite Armor, which required you to get the correct traits
-Essences (8.2)
-Corruptions (8.3)
In DF we have :
-Talents
I fail to see how going from talents + artifact weapon down to talents would be more complex.
At first it is. Then it ends up being like a rince and repeat process I’d do on autopilot mode, aka not so fun. So was camping rares in Nazjatar and Korthia, fun for the first couple of weeks then just become a boring chore because it’s no longer exciting.
I mean, I’d be willing to accept another AP expansion if :
-It’s being tied to classes.
-Account wide.
-And living on its own.
New players and casuals don’t engage with M+ and raiding anyways.
Which is why it was good.
A half coocked version :x
They removed in response to popular demand from the vocal minority. Not based on what your average player wanted.
Right i’m sure it’s the bad balancing for top 0.1% of players that made Zaralek Cavern die 2 weeks into the patch. I’m sure it’s also the reason why groups for weekly keys take ages to fill out or why the open world is dead.
People who play high keys make up less than 1% of the playerbase. Who actually cares about how the game is for such a tiny fraction of the playerbase? Nobody here is talking about them because they’re irrelevant to the discussion and they always will be.
Go on raider IO and check the data for low keys, the game is very balanced for everyone. The spriest & augvoker discussion is completely irrelevant and has no impact on the overall game at all.
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Bro really comes back after 7 days to reply.
Ignored.
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You put a like to your own post by an alt, yet you are the most toxic player 
How pathetic you are, and so is Dragonflight
You really are new to WoW who started playing wow during dragonflight and your first raid was Vault of the Incarnates. I am old enough to see how do you keep lying
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The most interesting part of this is that even on WoW twitter a few top players seem to be going…
Uhm… maybe having no reason to log in and play any part of the game that is not M+ or raiding was a mistake?
Blizzard posted that they were incredibly happy with retention, at the same time Bellular remarked how his WoW vids have massively lost views (which is also what has happened to most other casual WoW content creators as observed by many of us).
I ultimately think the casuals, tourists or whatever you wanna call them were hurt the most by the poor implementation of power grinds in DF. This is seen by the open world being completely dead, and with casual content creators having lost 60-80 % of their views compared to Legion.
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I had a hectic week at work lil bro.
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I haven’t read anything other than the OP, but I certainly don’t welcome the return of AP.
Being under pressure by my Raid Leader to hit AP level x by a certain day?
Winning an upgrade to learn it isn’t as I don’t have the AP to use all of it’s abilities?
Being forced into content I don’t want to do to ensure I hit level x?
No thank you
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If ap return. I will play another game instede then.
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