Bobby Kotick’s Salary vs Blizzard Redundancies

[Amazoner-kul-tiras]

@Sharja-burning-legion

And not even 30% made it past 10 level:

“Blizzard has revealed that only 30 per cent of new World of Warcraft players make it past level 10.”

That’s 30% of new players in a universe of a game that sold more than 100 million copies by now.

“That’s the tipping point at which people either stay or go, which make’s the game’s 11.5 million subscriber base all the more impressive.”

" In an investor call following the release of Activision Blizzard’s financial results, Blizzard CEO Mike Morhaime said the game had a stable subscriber base of 11.5 million players - the same figure announced in July 2008."

Seems like the game still had 11.5 million of players, even though 30% of the new players give up.

@Sharja-burning-legion

Forums are almost never agreed on something, so what did you expect? Listening to group A or B ?

You understand that the game has A and B.
If you don’t like Legion and I don’t like BFA, they should find a middle ground.
Unless they only want A to play in a expansion, or B to play on another expansion.

@Sharja-burning-legion

Not to mention they regreted implementing legendaries in first place.

None asked for them, they implemented it.
Just as none asked for Garrisons in WoD.
Just as none asked for Azerite system and corruption in BFA.

I would still take the legendary system over what we have in BFA, mainly because it has less variations.

@Sharja-burning-legion

No new expansion will surpas previous ones because wow is getting stale, nothing blizzard will do will ever bring back players back to game to the point it will start growing.

They could at least try to maintain what they have.
They don’t seem to even trying right now.

@Sharja-burning-legion

Nothing will ever beat legiondaries RNG and legion titanforging. I farmed 800 raid bosses (including mythic and LFR) for 8 months to finally get the one I needed.
No such thing happened in BfA. Titanforging was nerfed, corruption got vendor.

Titanforging was replaced by corrupted items.
The question isn’t if the item will titanforge, it is: if the item will have the right corruptions.
Also they add nothing to your spell bar, just random procs.

They introduced a vendor that people are already complaining about.
Seems another situation of giving without actually solving the problem.

@Sharja-burning-legion

I played all these expansion and they did improve a lot of stuff. Legion was new testing ground so they improved most of those issues since then.

@Sharja-burning-legion

And I hated legion with passion, for me it was the worst expansion ever. Does that mean much? Not really.

So in order to improve, customer satisfaction is irrelevant, got it.
People didn’t like Legendary systems so, they created more RNG systems.

@Sharja-burning-legion

No. Mobile games don’t require so much developers, community managers, servers etc.

Also, they are cheaper to develop as well.

@Sharja-burning-legion

And none of services that blizzard provides are mandatory to play, or even giving any advantage. There is no P2W section in blizzard shop.

Never said that.
I said: there’s no limitations to how much you can spend on game.
Any company will want to attract, the players that spend a lot, most commonly known as whales.
Why wouldn’t they ?

Cheers.

[Kaløyan-sylvanas]

I dont get why ppl keep working after they get their first million…

Just give me 1 million and I will stay low and just use ~$500 a month and live normally for the rest of my life. All I need is a computer to play games + some beers.

[Sharja-burning-legion]

@Amazoner-kul-tiras

Seems like the game still had 11.5 million of players, even though 30% of the new players give up.

You read it wrong. 70% of new player gave up before reaching level 10.
Which simply means more people tried it than the amount of people leaving the game.
Now the question is how many of players even reached max level back then?
If 70% quit BEFORE level 10.

@Amazoner-kul-tiras

they should find a middle ground.
Unless they only want A to play in a expansion, or B to play on another expansion.

Which is why they are iterating over stuff according to their vision. Ultimately there will be always people not satisfied.

@Amazoner-kul-tiras

None asked for them, they implemented it.
Just as none asked for Garrisons in WoD just as none asked for Azerite system and corruption in BFA.

Garrisons were amazing idea poorly executed. Azerite GEAR (not system) is again great idea that is far superior to tier sets (visual sets could have been implemented as well). And neck is result of complaints from Legion that artifact was too powerful. At some point it was better to farm AP than get better gear.

I have also simmed it, and weapon itself gave you 60% of your entire power.
Neck combined with azerite gear gives 30-40%. Neck itself doesn’t give you much, some miniscule numbers.

@Amazoner-kul-tiras

They could at least try to maintain what they have.
They don’t seem to even trying right now.

They do it better than ever before. Corruption vendor has been implemented MID PATCH, something of this scale was absolutely unthinkable in older expansions. Any change like this would take at least one major patch or even two.

@Amazoner-kul-tiras

Titanforging was replaced by corrupted items.

Oh no no no no. Titanforging was severely nerfed at the beginning of BfA.

@Amazoner-kul-tiras

Also they add nothing to your spell bar, just random procs.

So you won’t miss it next expansion like with legion backlash when removing weapon would feel like ripping half of your class.

@Amazoner-kul-tiras

They introduced a vendor that people are already complaining about.
Seems another situation of giving without actually solving the problem.

But it wasn’t a problem, only tuning and acquisition was. Corruption itself is not problem.

@Amazoner-kul-tiras

So in order to improve, customer satisfaction is irrelevant, got it.
People didn’t like Legendary systems so, they created more RNG systems.

They are nowhere near as bad as legiondaries were. Azerite gear is 100% deterministic, you have STATIC drops from raid (like tier sets) and vendor on top of that which sells you SPECIFIC pieces. Essences are 100% deterministic.
Only corruptions were RNG but again, because of acquisition rate it wasn’t nearly as bad as legiondaries. And we got vendor couple of months in, not a damn 2 years after release.

@Amazoner-kul-tiras

Also, they are cheaper to develop as well.

So with 1/10 playerbase, 1/10 profit, you will get 1/10 content and 1/10 everything else.

@Amazoner-kul-tiras

I said: there’s no limitations to how much you can spend on game.

Lets be realistic, WoW doesn’t have not-free-to-play business model. Without 90% of playerbase game either goes life-support mode or gets closed.

[Amazoner-kul-tiras]

@Sharja-burning-legion

Which is why they are iterating over stuff according to their vision. Ultimately there will be always people not satisfied.

More like mathematically find a artificial way to extend game play.
Which basically translates in to boredom.

Did everyone asked for scaling ?
Did everyone asked to have the same level 120 mob to scale according to their gear ILV ?
Did everyone asked to have tons of trash to clear in dungeons ?

All I saw in BFA was things that were fine in Legion being needlessly buffed.

What was the the need to buff leveling dungeons and getting more time to get XP just to go back after a couple of months ?

What was the need of increasing time spent in TW ?
Do players have to apply the same formula as dungeon leveling in the beginning of BFA, so they get the message ?
That means not playing it ?

@Sharja-burning-legion

Garrisons were amazing idea poorly executed.

@Sharja-burning-legion

Azerite GEAR (not system) is again great idea that is far superior to tier sets (visual sets could have been implemented as well).

@Sharja-burning-legion

And neck is result of complaints from Legion that artifact was too powerful. At some point it was better to farm AP than get better gear.

Seems more like three systems very poorly implemented.
Success needs no excuse.
Failure does.

@Sharja-burning-legion

I have also simmed it, and weapon itself gave you 60% of your entire power.
Neck combined with azerite gear gives 30-40%. Neck itself doesn’t give you much, some miniscule numbers.

Now I kind of understand why I was eager to increase my weapon level as opposed to my neck level.

@Sharja-burning-legion

They do it better than ever before . Corruption vendor has been implemented MID PATCH, something of this scale was absolutely unthinkable in older expansions. Any change like this would take at least one major patch or even two.

That depends on how serious is the problem.

Did anyone asked to get gear that can corrupt and you need to farm a legendary cape to counter it and after a certain amount of corruption starts spawning things that disrupt your game play ?
That was their idea and now that people are complaining they had no choice except to fix it.
How about not implementing it to start ?

@Sharja-burning-legion

So you won’t miss it next expansion like with legion backlash when removing weapon would feel like ripping half of your class.

Don’t worry.
I won’t miss it, because I am not playing that system.
I would rather have a system that leaves me missing it, than one that makes me just not go through with it.

@Sharja-burning-legion

Corruption itself is not problem.

A unnecessary system.

@Sharja-burning-legion

They are nowhere near as bad as legiondaries were. Azerite gear is 100% deterministic, you have STATIC drops from raid (like tier sets) and vendor on top of that which sells you SPECIFIC pieces. Essences are 100% deterministic.
Only corruptions were RNG but again, because of acquisition rate it wasn’t nearly as bad as legiondaries. And we got vendor couple of months in, not a damn 2 years after release.

So they replaced one problem with three systems that make you play longer, in order for you to get them.

Also how long it takes you to get your BIS Azerite gear, essences and corruption, realistically speaking ?
Yes it took you 8 months to get your legendary vs a long list of things to complete now.

@Sharja-burning-legion

So with 1/10 playerbase, 1/10 profit, you will get 1/10 content and 1/10 everything else.

1/10 of player base does not have to equate 1/10 of profits.

New flash: you can make your players spend more.
We are already spending more with the shop.
Also if I had only one main with multiple achievements and curve, chances are, I would had already race changed to any of the eight Allied races multiple times.

Now that I think of it, why introduce customizations like LF Draenei in to the Draenei, when you can make people pay for it, right ?

@Sharja-burning-legion

Lets be realistic, WoW doesn’t have not-free-to-play business model. Without 90% of playerbase game either goes life-support mode or gets closed.

It’s all about profits.

Also as you stated, with less players there’s no need to add vasts amounts of content.
Just make them go through the same content over and over.
We are already doing it with multiple daily tasks.

Cheers.

[Savotar-argent-dawn (Savotar)]

@Sharja-burning-legion

Or maybe people are satisfied with BfA you know? Like every other expansion was worst expansion when it was current. Unfortunately for vocal minority it doesn’t work that way.

If the expansion will trully fail, blizzard pocket will get to feel it. That’s a pros for capitalism, you vote with money . But if product is not dying, it means other people are enjoying it and you are just in minority.

The last place money losses are felt are usually at the top.

The people save themselves and uses everyone else under them as the sacrificial pieces.

[Retributor-draenor (Retributor)]

If the product isn’t good people abandon it and the company bankrupts. With big monopolies and addictive products though it doesn’t work as it would in a free market.

[Sylvare-argent-dawn (Sylvare)]

@Sharja-burning-legion

Azerite GEAR (not system) is again great idea

The GEAR part of Azerite ruined the entire system by forcing you to farm the same items at higher ilvl for 3 slots
The TRAITS part made less then barebone class/spec choices somewhat possible to play
And how you can claim that from a cosmetic standpoint it’s an upgrade from tiersets… How? It’s 3 items which share theme with basic appearances, the raid sets might’ve been cool but all they are, are sets that don’t really fit with any class

BFAs reward system is letting Blizzard spit in your mouth and sometimes RNG means it tastes like strawberries
With the expansion of RNGforging features, the chance that the spit tasted like strawberries was drastically decreased
With the addition of corruption, the chance of that spit tasting like strawberries was even more drastically decreased
The RNG Cycle vendor is just a spit in the eyeball for a change of pace

If the game was rewarding to play he could be paid billions for all I care, but as it stands the entire reward system is rotten to the core and I can’t feel like this salary is on the basis of performance

[Giambalin-anachronos]

@Heartgrenade-azjolnerub

There is also such a thing as ethical Capitalism

You can’t put “Ethical” and “Capitalism” in the same sentence.

[Venda-draenor]

That CEO is greed at its highest level: To fire people when the company sometimes loses revenue, while his salary is that high.

[Sharja-burning-legion]

@Sylvare-argent-dawn

The GEAR part of Azerite ruined the entire system by forcing you to farm the same items at higher ilvl for 3 slots
The TRAITS part made less then barebone class/spec choices somewhat possible to play
And how you can claim that from a cosmetic standpoint it’s an upgrade from tiersets… How? It’s 3 items which share theme with basic appearances, the raid sets might’ve been cool but all they are, are sets that don’t really fit with any class

You have no idea how wrong you are.

First nobody forced you to farm anything.
Second, each tier, you “had to farm tier sets” which were only available from raids. Now, not only you have 4-5 sources of tiers, you can straight up buy the one you need from vendor.
Third you had 4-6 dead slot once you assembled a tier bonus.

Appearance has nothing to do with system itself, Visual sets could have been implemented regardless of azerite gear or not in form of ensembles.

[Heartgrenade-azjolnerub]

@Giambalin-anachronos

You can’t put “Ethical” and “Capitalism” in the same sentence.

Possibly in your (dictionary / semantic) view… others (myself included) argue differently:

The heart of the issue is this: Capitalism is only as good as capitalists.

For any system to be sustained — political, governmental, social or economic — its leaders must be rooted in ethics. So what does this mean? Ethical Capitalism has at least two essential ingredients: A focus on creating long-term economic and social value, and a commitment by business to act as stewards of the full spectrum of its constituencies — customers, employees, suppliers, investors and society. Ethical Capitalism seeks to build deep, trust-based relationships in the service of society as well as the bottom line. In other words, it is a business model with a “higher purpose.”

The benefits are real and long-lasting. Companies committed to this higher purpose attract more customers, minimize operating costs through energy efficiency and reduced waste, improve employee retention rates and benefit from an experienced workforce that has a stake in the company’s long-term success.

Ethical Capitalism is not some idealistic dream; it is a powerful engine that drives long-term value creation.

By the way, this isn’t an exhaustive example, you can be ethical in how you run your business, ‘capitalism’ or otherwise. There have been multiple accounts of CEO’s sacrificing salaries to save employees.

Don’t pick me up on things unless you have done me the courtesy of researching them.

[Sharja-burning-legion]

@Amazoner-kul-tiras

More like mathematically find a artificial way to extend game play.

There is no such thing. Nobody forces you to do anything. It’s a game.

@Amazoner-kul-tiras

All I saw in BFA was things that were fine in Legion being needlessly buffed.

And this is where you are wrong, yes people asked for this things because legion “trash” were mindless meatgrinder. And scaling was introduced in legion so people won’t one shot mobs.

@Amazoner-kul-tiras

Seems more like three systems very poorly implemented.
Success needs no excuse.
Failure does.

Nope, people don’t understand why azerite gear was success because of blind hatred.

Comparing tier sets to azerite gear gives a clear winner = azerite gear.
Tier was available only from raid - azerite is available from raid, vendor and pvp.
Tier occupied 4 slots at least making them dead slots, azerite occupy only 3.
Tier had no choice, you either loved it or hated it. Azerite has a choice in traits.
Tier had secondary stats which were often bad for your class, azerite doesn’t which makes only difference in traits.
Visual sets is entirely different story, blizzard went lazy here but still could implement visual sets for all specs like ToV ensembles.

There is no excuse here, only cold heart logic.

@Amazoner-kul-tiras

Now I kind of understand why I was eager to increase my weapon level as opposed to my neck level.

Also why it burned so many people out, It was worst system ever created.

@Amazoner-kul-tiras

Did anyone asked to get gear that can corrupt and you need to farm a legendary cape to counter it and after a certain amount of corruption starts spawning things that disrupt your game play ?

Did anyone asked for your opinion on everything? No, yet you still do it.
While reality nobody cares and blizzard will continue to shake things up with new system because once game gets stale it will go downhill even faster.

@Amazoner-kul-tiras

Don’t worry.
I won’t miss it, because I am not playing that system.
I would rather have a system that leaves me missing it, than one that makes me just not go through with it.

No you don’t. Backlash was insane and people were rightfully furious. That is why we won’t ever get ridiculous system like legion weapon again.

@Amazoner-kul-tiras

A unnecessary system.

I’m not sure which part of developers QA did you miss but it was needed since blizzard is planning to introduce some successor of that system in shadowlands.

@Amazoner-kul-tiras

So they replaced one problem with three systems that make you play longer, in order for you to get them.

Also how long it takes you to get your BIS Azerite gear, essences and corruption, realistically speaking ?

You have no idea how wrong you are.

To get bis azerite it takes you 3 weeks if you are raiding, shorter than tier sets.

@Amazoner-kul-tiras

Yes it took you 8 months to get your legendary vs a long list of things to complete now.

8 months of killing 800 raid bosses vs doing 1 M+ a week and a raid at ONE difficulty.
With azerite, I get my pieces shorter than ever before. Two of them comes from a raid, one I buy specific.

@Amazoner-kul-tiras

New flash: you can make your players spend more.

News flash, when you lose 90% of your playerbase, no matter what you do, game is bound to hit hard especially when it’s divided by factions and servers.
It’s a foolish to think people will suddenly spend more on game that has not even half of things to do that it used to.

@Amazoner-kul-tiras

It’s all about profits.

Profits are directly correlated with amount of players.

[Giambalin-anachronos]

Thanks for explanation,very interesting, today I learn something new (and you avoided me a search on Google)

[Transmoggu-antonidas]

@Podruge-lightbringer

poor get poorer/ laid off

Just to get this straight. People got laid off because their job didn’t exist anymore / wasn’t needed.

Just watch the ythisen interview

[Osangar-aszune (Osangar)]

Can you provide the source for this quote please as I would like to dig deeper into it.

[Galaxik-kazzak]

Edison decent LMFAO

[Saeryn-auchindoun]

@Galaxik-kazzak

Edison decent LMFAO

That’s kind of my point, that he wasn’t a decent guy… And he became rich because he was willing to step on others to get where he wanted to go…

[Uruk-argent-dawn (Uruk)]

@Sharja-burning-legion

Also why it burned so many people out, It was worst system ever created.

That’s just your personal opinion I’m afraid.

[Sharja-burning-legion]

@Uruk-argent-dawn

That’s just your personal opinion I’m afraid.

Not just mine I’m afraid.

[Heartgrenade-azjolnerub]

I can’t post links, but you Google ‘huffpost ethical capitalism article’, it’s a good read…

There are many other articles weighing up the pros and cons that you can of course Google… I only raised it to highlight that contrary to popular belief, ethics can have a place in business, whether at a company level or as an individual CEO.

The code of what is considered to be ethically fair will change vastly from one person to another, but my point is valid nonetheless.

Anyway, I’ll leave that particular point here, I don’t intend on discussing it further…