I post from phone. Just highlight and “copy quote” this was from my phone. I’m in a key right now on my PC.
It’s the start though. I didn’t stop playing to type this.
You be gifted. Maybe that is why you main tank. Only gigachads main tank…
Im posting on the phone now. In the computer my posts became too long.
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It took me years to realise you could “copy quote”.
It felt like I put all my skill points into 「tanking pugs」 when I found out about it.
U know u are one of those that thinks classic is harder then retail? Also u also have a sub to even play classic hahaha
https://check-pvp.fr/eu/Silvermoon/Strength
A lot of the people keep playing just because they have a hope that it will get better/addicted/longing to the past (and million other reasons)
Making it that simple is just purely dishonest.
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Well you are going to play for 5 weeks 
1st season you got 2.6 k.~ Quit ~
2nd Season you got as well fast 3.2k ~Quit
So Basically your gameplay is 8 m+ dungeons for 5-6 weeks and that’s all >>> I smell
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Why? No need.
Move on. Find something you love.
It’s much better to engage with things you love than things you hate. It’s healthier on an emotional as well as a psychological level.
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It is insane how some people get so salty if someone makes a valid statements about the state of the retail. You really need to grow and toughen up.
I have like 15 friends occasionally play retail and they all say the same thing as the op. I agree with them.
But you lads just can’t stop being blunt with your salty “idc… anyways” responses. Shame. Such a low point. And probably adults.
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It’s not negativity—it’s fact.
Mists of Pandaria got a wave of backlash at release because the tone shifted from demons, undead, and dragons to a trailer of a human fighting a panda monk.
Warlords of Draenor launched with major technical failures—many players couldn’t even log in because they were stuck in their garrisons. Its final patch dragged on for an entire year with zero updates or balance changes.
Legion saw a surge in players, but mostly because millions returned after a year of no content in WoD. Legion was a good expansion overall, but not perfect—random legendaries, GCD changes, and class designs that were entirely dependent on Artifacts. Once those Artifacts were removed, the game fell into chaos, setting up two weak expansions.
Battle for Azeroth and Shadowlands weren’t just unpopular—they were deemed unsuccessful by Blizzard themselves. That’s not negativity, it’s reality.
So, should I quit WoW forever because of bad expansions? Maybe. But if everyone abandoned something at the first sign of disappointment, nothing would ever improve.
WoW still has great aspects—but those are fading with each expansion.
I’m not saying anyone is wrong for enjoying modern retail WoW. But I’m also not wrong for saying that retail today is not the same WoW that made it the greatest MMO from Classic through Legion. That’s not just opinion—it’s fact.
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Is it dishonest? What does “Better” really mean? For Blizzard its more players. For an individual its a specific version of wow.
Wow has been alive for 20 years. So even with their massive flops they have done something good. Something that has kept a critical mass of players engaged.
That is their job. But logically it will never align with what each one of us considers “better”. Simply because that “average player” Blizzard is targeting dosent really exist. Its a statistical construct.
So TLDR: Deep down each one of us knows that Blizzard and “me” are not aligned in what wow is supposed to be. All I (and each one of us) can do as an individual is hope that wow is good enough to offer some entertainment for some time.
Thats the truth. If he has not seen it in 15 years… then the problem is OP. Not Blizzard. And its 100% honest to remind people of said truth.
That is called being honest. Do I agree with what blizzard does when it comes to stagnant metas in high keys? NO.
Would I like changes? YES.
Do I see the changes? NO. <---- Therefore I stop playing. I stop paying.
And when I come to the forums to complain, its about SPECIFIC things. Like specific class balance tuning and things like that. Not about blanket whines about nothing specific. Like OP does.
On top of that, the day wow stops being entertaining even for some months, then I stop playing all together and move on. Its just a game.
I never denied that. Call it whatever you want, but read again your whole post you wrote. There is something you hate about each and every expansion.
Its never “good enough”. Or you somehow forgot that each of those expansions offered some months of entertainment for you.
What I am saying is that in-spite of the “facts” you write about… something kept you playing. So… Blizzard did SOMETHING that you liked about them.
Right? 
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Uda, I’m trying to respect your replies, but they ultimately come across as either rage bait or an attempt to “prove me wrong”—and neither is going to happen.
Your argument doesn’t hold up. My original point was that WoW has been moving further and further away from its original design. I listed the negatives of each expansion, showing how they’ve gotten progressively worse, which is reflected in the declining player count. I also said multiple times that WoW has made some good changes—but the overall direction keeps moving away from what once made it the best.
Take WoD for example. I actually enjoyed it, but that doesn’t erase the fact that Garrisons were extremely buggy and that the game went a full year with no content. I quit during that drought, as did many others. Yes, I enjoyed the core gameplay, but WoD still lost nearly 50% of its playerbase. That isn’t opinion—it’s fact, backed by data.
The same applies to later expansions. In BFA, I unsubscribed repeatedly because it just wasn’t fun. In Shadowlands, I stayed long enough to earn elite sets, but only because of Covid lockdowns giving me time to play. The damage both of those expansions caused is again factual and provable. And if Shadowlands couldn’t hold players during a lockdown—when people had nothing else to do but game—then that speaks volumes about how bad it really was.
The reality is this: I went from subbing every month for years to maybe 2–3 months per year now. That’s a drastic drop in engagement, and I know I’m not the only one. At this point, I probably won’t sub again until Midnight, and even then, if they push more player-power systems, I won’t bother—not even for elite sets.
Saying that if someone is unhappy with any part of a product they should just walk away is, frankly, insane. People can love a game while still criticizing it when it strays from what made it great. That’s not negativity—that’s accountability.
Can You please point me to that data? I thought Blizzard stopped publishing sub numbers not long after WoD launch.
Also, it’s really hard to tell how much of a playerbase decline is due to WoW’s own failures, and how much of it is due to changing preferences of gamers themselves, number of competitors and other factors outside of Blizzard’s control.
There’s no denying that the game has turned into a trap where you have to stay subbed or you miss out on a item/mount/pet/toy or whatever. If you don’t care about that then you probably aren’t playing the game. Its boring and lacks passion. I havent played since December and do not miss it at all. I havent ever missed an xpac before, but i don’t know if theres any reason to come back for Midnight. Player housing just sounds like more cash shop stuff to me.
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i agree 100% but this policy is becomin “too much”. Talkin as a collector of mounts and mogs… now im starting not to care about new mounts and mogs.
I have 600 mounts. The joy to have new ones is 0 now. I did an exception just for invincible but after 2 days i stopped caring.
If blizz things to cater ppl just with this kind of rewards and in the meanwhile give less content… I start to think they are miscalculating.
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I respect your opinion as well.
But you know how many people fail to recognize that the game is not the only thing that changed during this past 20 years? People changed as well. You changed. You are not 15 in the early 2000s anymore.
You cannot seriously expect the game to maintain the “glory days” for ever…
Wow simply evolved with the general population. As best as it could. Sometimes it failed, sometimes it did not. Simple as that.
For example:
YES. Many people do it. Because people will not play a game that has 7 months of wait-time for a DLC. People play different games today, some of which are Mobile Games.
People simply are not willing to invest 8h a day grinding over and over again the same mobs for some reputation or whatever… nobody wants to do that anymore. Because none of us are 15 anymore, and dont have the whole afternoon to play while mommy prepares dinner. So Blizzard responded: No more brainless grinds.
If wow would not have changed and stayed the same as it was 20 years ago, it would have gone extinct. It would not have survived this long.
And then on your specific answers:
I am unhappy with SPECIFIC parts of the game. And I address those. You are not. Your complaints are vague, not precise, and too wide. As if you are unhappy with ALL aspects of the game.
And be honest with yourself. Wow has good things and bad things. If bad > good stop playing. Simple as that.
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This is considered vague to you?
Yes. You literally quote every single major part of the game. But lets go 1 by 1 if you want:
What is all that supposed to mean? WHAT modifiers? WHAT key-binds? This is super vague.
Let’s be specific. Il go first, with TWO examples:
- I thing Blizzard should remove Healing Surge and Healing Wave and combine them into one. They practically do the same exact thing, but have different modifiers, and it’s confusing. And its not intuitive to know when to use one, and when to use the other.
- Blizzard should make Healing Rain instant and permanent. You simply relocate it. Its stupid to have to use a 6s CD spell with a 2s cast time. So in an ideal scenario, you are 1/3 of your time casting healing rain. Not because it heals for a lot, but because it multiplies the healing of those inside it.
ect…
What does all this even mean? And it misses the point entirely. The main problem with PvP is the fact that MMR and Rating are tied so tightly. So the effort-reward is simply not there…
I am confused. This has been the case since Vanilla. New raid == new shiny purples has been the staple of wow since 2004. Why are you surprised?
Plus, this is a totally you problem. How “grindy” you take the gearing process depends 100% on you.
Again. Staple of Wow since 2004… Who cares if the lore is good or bad. Fact is that you have to wait for YEARS to see the story evolve. Its so bad because between chapter 1 and chapter 2 you have to wait 5 years.
Remember: We are getting glimpses of WHY Sargeras wanted to stab Azeroth with a big sword. In Legion Sargeras just did it, and Blizz just left us with a strange sword stuck in Silithus. With no explanation whatsoever.
And NOW we know the followup to that.
But FYI: Blizzard HAS addressed this. With 3 expansions back to back centered around the void. We began TWW with Xalatath doing some weird thing. And we will end this “saga” with Xalatath dead. Not with 8 years of wait for the next chapter. So Blizzard IS addressing the lore in this case.
Pruning? Why?
Prior to the 1-button rotation you had a whole spectrum of skill expression. You could play with the 3 most commonly used buttons and ignore all modifiers. And you could raid, M+, Delve just FINE.
If you wanted to do harder things, you needed to get better at the game. LOGICALLY.
What is unacceptable in 2025 (but WAS in 2004) is to reduce the game to the least common denominator. If you do that, you might stay. But others will leave. You have to give everyone OPTIONS. A place to express their skill.
That is how blizzard manages to maintain such a large variety of people.
So. TLDR: If you dont like the bloat, then do the following:
- Dont choose the WoWHead “meta” talents. Choose those with the least active abilities.
- Dont track modifiers.
- Dont bind absolutely every single key. There is ZERO need to bind BL and raid buffs for example. You can click it once every hour.
- Choose the 5/6 most used abilites, and your 3 most OP CDs. And forget the rest.
DONE. You got a spec that can play the super EZ content of MoP, but in TWW.
It’s not about specific spells/abilities. It’s about the big picture.
There is simply too many specific to name! We don’t have time for that.
No, MMR is a problem, yes, but what he said is the truth. Classes simply have too much of everything. MOP was bloated; TWW is worse. Again, we’re speaking about the big picture.
The “gear resets” were never this sharp. Yes, new tiers did have better gear, but there was still some overlap. This is no longer the case.
I don’t care about lore, so I’m not gonna bother with this too much.
This is an MMORPG; your inability to perform affects other people. You can’t just stick your head into the sand. You either rise to the occasion or suffer the consequences.
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Exactly. “Big Picture” is vague. Not specific. So if you cant even name 2 things you disagree with on your paladin (and there are plenty of by the way), then I call it a rant. Pointless ranting.
Also. You know what is the problem with the “big picture”? That others might have a different “picture”. Vague concepts are very open to all sorts of interpretations. Not just yours.
Now. Ask any shaman about the 2 issues I mentioned, and ALL will agree they need a change.
Funny dont you think?
How about being specific?
-
How about saying that Dampening made sense in MoP with infinite mana healers, but it makes ZERO sense today? And they should remove it.
-
Like playing 1000+ arenas the whole season and not even breaking 2000 rating because the best PvPer on the planet is sitting on 2100 rating?
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What about addressing the fact that healers can tie in SoloQ?
ect…
When was that the case? Please… illuninate me.
MoP:
Completing Throne of Thunder grants access to 522 ilvl gear on Normal difficulty and 535 ilvl gear on Heroic difficulty.
Normal mode drops 553 ilvl gear, while Heroic difficulty offers 566 ilvl gear.
It was never the case. The few instances where there was a slight overlap were quickly changed the next tier. Like when they experimented with 10 man and 25 man normal/heroic in WotlK.
You care enough to mention it in your rant post. Almost half of it is about Lore.
What consequences will you suffer in a 5+? The fact that other MMOs dont offer this option is because other MMOs dont give such a vast variety of difficulty and content.
In wow you can play the game at your own pace, at your own skill ceiling. The ceiling is not imposed by the game. Nor is any of its features barred unless you achieve that ceiling.
That is why other MMOs are dead. And WoW is still alive. Dont forget that.