Cataclysm Classic Hotfixes - 18 November

[Hickorii-firemaw]

@Kiryaa-nethergarde-keep

Will that 500DPS translate to anything other than slightly faster run? Will ot be difference between cleared or failed raid? Yeah I don’t think it will. Also do it but don’t freaking destroy your sanity while you’re doing it.

Neither? 90% of WoW falls into either Casual Raids which don’t care to have everyone preparing as much as they can and therefore don’t care about Archaeology, which is your camp.

Or:

Competing against people of the same Class & Specc. Where having a 500 DPS advantage is the difference between a 99 and a 95, just because they got lucky .

This also goes hand in hand with progressing Heroic Content ASAP. Since 500DPS won’t matter induvial ~ but if everyone is doing 500DPS more that’s another 9k Raid DPS, which can make or break certain DPS checks.

Which is all hindered because people had bad luck hitting a 0.3% drop chance for raid gear. If Blizzard didn’t want us to obtain it, why even include it? They obviously can adjust this RE the Pterrodax hatchling.

@Kiryaa-nethergarde-keep

Maybe, or maybe I’ll settle for weaker but easier to get item. I spent time in phase 1 barely getting upgrades. Hell my tank self still has most of that gear because I just had the worst luck and across multiple bosses the upgrade either didn’t drop or I lost the roll before I gave up on catching up in Phase 3 and left the game for a while. And I’m already aware that in later expansions (was it MoP that introduced Personal loot?) I’ll probably gonna be facing even worse odds that will depend on raid’s composition.

Just because your guild has a loot system means that you don’t get loot, doesn’t mean that you should die on a hill full of unsolved staffs and swords claiming that nothing should be done about Archeology - or accept receiving no loot since you obviously have a passion for WoW, which makes you better than 80% of the player base already (Which is why we’re both here).

@Kiryaa-nethergarde-keep

Wrong on both accounts.
I’m a Holy Paladin with Prot as sub spec. Considering swapping for Ret in Cata for questing/rep grinds or swapping to my Alt if my healing Portfolio doesn’t work out. I also haven’t even maxed Archaeology because so far my guild doesn’t force me to grind it understanding how low the odds are and there are just more interesting things to do than Archaeology.

Fine, I’m wrong. Not to repeat my point above; but to repeat my point above. Just because your guild doesn’t care about everyone coming to the raids the best they can be, why do you want to die on a hill full of unsolved staffs and swords claiming that nothing should be done about Archaeology.

RE Two Camps: My guild does want this, because I want my raid performing the best they can so we can enjoy the game how we like too. Doing hard content, well.

And yes, you can play how you want - I’m not saying you should play like I do.

@Kiryaa-nethergarde-keep

They have freaking ability to stop. The gear isn’t obligatory to clear the raids and unless you’re really aiming for World First on HC it’s not something you should do exactly because it’s unhealthy.

Yes, they do and many people have; myself included. I’ve personally encouraged my guild to take a break to not burn out. Which as a GM looking to take my guild as far as we can, sucks.

So, I agree with you that people can stop. Will they? No.

To conclude, your points are valid for the way you enjoy and consume WoW. The changes the majoirty of Diggers want have 0 affect on the way you play the game, yet you’re adamant they shouldn’t change it because of the snowball affect. Which could be made for literally any change they’ve made in Classic.

I’m gonna say let’s agree to disagree, and if you want to carry on flinging: I’m happy to give you my perspective but I won’t be dying on any hill. I’ll dig my hill until they add Bad Luck Protection or I hit 0.3% when I have the mental to carry on.

[Kiryaa-nethergarde-keep]

@Hickorii-firemaw

The changes the majoirty of Diggers want have 0 affect on the way you play the game,

Not exactly. Tell me what was perception among everyone once Blizzard released Sidereal Essences and put pieces that were arguably a BiS for those that didn’t raid before and often even for raiders (Meteorite Crystal Remained BiS till the End of Wrath when it came to Holy Paladins). How did they look at someone that didn’t have them fast enough? Were they met with understanding that yes farming Sidereals is a chore and not everyone has time to run Beta World Tours every day especially since that was without RDF. Or were those people pushed down because they slacked and obviously lacked commitment? (SPOILER ALERT - I’ve seen the latter)

Because the same will happen if epics become guaranteed. They’ll go from nice to have to mandatory even in more casual environment. Because outside of luck all ot will take is “just” sufficient time investment. I’ve seen it already and considering how diggers react I don’t need to be a prophet to bet my soul on that prediction.

@Hickorii-firemaw

Just because your guild doesn’t care about everyone coming to the raids the best they can be

Oh they want that. They also understand that RNG can be a b**** and not every slot will be absolute BiS. Or at least I hope they do.

@Hickorii-firemaw

Just because your guild has a loot system means that you don’t get loot, doesn’t mean that you should die on a hill full of unsolved staffs and swords claiming that nothing should be done about Archeology

I don’t know their loot system. I only joined them recently after moving from Nethergarde Keep due to it being closed. Back there sadly the guilds were either “social” meaning every man for themselves or hardcore raiders with raiding schedule I could not adhere to being a factory worker (shifts are hell). So I did what every single no-guilder did. PuGs. Mostly SR ones since NK didn’t exactly host GDKPs. But you can’t win against bad luck. Upgrades I needed either didn’t drop or I lost rolls against others. Never even seen the freaking sword for Tank that 4 Horsemen were supposed to drop. Seen the BiS for Healers once but lost to a Mage when rolling. And then Naxx runs stopped happening halfway through Phase 2 and my Tank was still with GS of 4.2k while my healer had measly 4.1k. Sometimes the luck is just bad.

And what? Was I supposed to rage at Blizzard? Demand bad luck protection?

[Hickorii-firemaw]

@Kiryaa-nethergarde-keep

Tell me what was perception among everyone once Blizzard released Sidereal Essences

Um, Sidereal was good? It provided a good way to get alts going or for returning players to get geared.

You do realise Sidereal and further on Scourgestones were one of the best things Blizzard added and you’re cherry picking the literal only example of a BiS item being added to a vendor. Which was amazing since it stopped any new Holy Paladins having to convince people to go to Ulduar 10 and clear the hardest boss in there.

Iirc it was 19 Sidereals, 19 HCs for a game BiS item sounds like a good deal if you put the effort in to make a good group. I agree, if you can’t be bothered to do 19 Heroics, you shouldn’t be raiding TOGC/ICC and that should be reflected.

I fail to see how world tours and gear on vendors is anyway related to a secondary open world profession?

@Kiryaa-nethergarde-keep

Because the same will happen if epics become guaranteed.

At no point did I say this in this thread, I know you’re on the forums so if you haven’t read my previous suggestion for bad luck protection then you’d know that there are ways of making sure it isn’t guaranteed for everyone. And I doubt you haven’t read it, since this all started with you replying to another comment on here.

Add bad luck protection after a certain point. Even if its after 300+ solves of that tribe. That way you still need to invest days to get your increased chance at an epic. Even if they don’t increase the drop rate to 100%. It even going to 5% would be the game changer.

Keeps casual players like you happy since you won’t be forced to do this.

Keep players like me happy since I know I’ll get it, 72 - 144 hours later on.

Win win no?

@Kiryaa-nethergarde-keep

I don’t know their loot system. I only joined them recently after moving from Nethergarde Keep

Brother, not gonna lie. I don’t care about your story on NGK or your bad luck on rolls. Keep this relevant to the issue, you defending archaeology.

@Kiryaa-nethergarde-keep

But you can’t win against bad luck.

You’re repeating yourself while moaning about the lack of gear you got. Pretty selfish of you to want to inflict this much pain on people, when you don’t have any experience, Mr Holy Paladin which isn’t required to get your BiS trinket.

@Kiryaa-nethergarde-keep

And what? Was I supposed to rage at Blizzard? Demand bad luck protection?

How can you view archaeology in the same context as raid gear.

Raid gear is obtained in part of a group. Archaeology is solo content.

The level of luck required for Raid Gear if you’re smart or have leverage (like a tank???) is low. Archaeology requires an insanely high amount of luck.

Raid times are capped, max 8 hours a week in most Guilds and 4 in PuGs. You can invest literally as much of your free time into it and see 0 return.

I fail to see how with all of these factors, you still think no bad luck protection is needed or that I’m raging at Blizzard.

Past this, if there was ever a piece of raid gear on a 0.3% drop chance - people would have the same reaction and be asking for an increased drop chance.

There’s a line, archaeology has crossed it. Bad RNG in raid doesn’t cross it. These comparisons seem like a weak attempt at trying to save face.

So again, outside of moaning about your bad loot luck. How are these two comparable or defendable?

[Kiryaa-nethergarde-keep]

@Hickorii-firemaw

Um, Sidereal was good? It provided a good way to get alts going or for returning players to get geared.

Not denying that except it was a long haul unless you could convince people to actually run more than a single Beta Dungeon per day (which was generally a current Daily). Otherwise we’re looking at a month long grind for a single item. That’s assuming you met the GS and in NK that it was roughly set on Ulduar 25 requirement.

[Hickorii-firemaw]

@Kiryaa-nethergarde-keep

@Hickorii-firemaw

Um, Sidereal was good? It provided a good way to get alts going or for returning players to get geared.

Not denying that except it was a long haul unless you could convince people to actually run more than a single Beta Dungeon per day (which was generally a current Daily). Otherwise we’re looking at a month long grind for a single item. That’s assuming you met the GS and in NK that it was roughly set on Ulduar 25 requirement.

That’s you’re only take from my points? If you want to discuss Archaeology more, I’m here.

If not, I’m sorry about your experience on NGK but I’m really not the person you should be venting too.

[Kiryaa-nethergarde-keep]

My apologies I tend to send the message early and edit it as I go. Can’t spend that much time typing. If you’ll allow I’ll continue addressing your points.

@Hickorii-firemaw

At no point did I say this in this thread, I know you’re on the forums so if you haven’t read my previous suggestion for bad luck protection then you’d know that there are ways of making sure it isn’t guaranteed for everyone

Then what you suggest is not a Bad Luck Protection most Diggers demand because that system by default exists to put a hard cap on most random chance effects. Your system of capping at still random chance wouldn’t solve a problem and even at 5% you’d have people unlucky enough to not receive their reward after days and weeks of solving Archeology. So no without a reward being guaranteed at some point there’s still a non zero chance that after week, two or Month you won’t.

@Hickorii-firemaw

How can you view archaeology in the same context as raid gear.

Simple. Both have rewards that are decided randomly. Outside of specific player invented systems the one who gets the Loot isn’t even decided on Merit but by a random roll.

@Hickorii-firemaw

Raid gear is obtained in part of a group. Archaeology is solo content.

Exactly. Raids are group content where each boss rewards between 1-3 players depending on number of items dropped and demand for said item. Remaining 9 to 24 gets nothing for their effort. And since the lottery is twofold it’s hard to rig. Being a single tank doesn’t mean the gear for you will drop. This is why VoA Pugs usually took 1 person per spec/class, depending on size, to ensure someone gets something useful.

Meanwhile Archeology is a solo content where all rewards go towards the one person that’s doing it. If the reward drops it’s all yours. The barrier of entry is also insanely low as your gear and level (as long as you meet the minimum required for the profession training) don’t matter.

@Hickorii-firemaw

Raid times are capped, max 8 hours a week in most Guilds and 4 in PuGs. You can invest literally as much of your free time into it and see 0 return.

Is that supposed to be advantage of raids or disadvantage. Because from my experience missing out on upgrade from a time gated activity simply sucks. Badly. You can do Raid Each week and if luck wants to screw you over you won’t get your upgrade. Better luck next week.

@Hickorii-firemaw

Past this, if there was ever a piece of raid gear on a 0.3% drop chance - people would have the same reaction and be asking for an increased drop chance.

Of course you know why? Because it’s a content requiring a skilled enough group to even reach rewards with a hard cap of 1-3 items per boss dropped you can do once per week. In that context the drop rates would simply be too low. Just ask any poor soul that tried to get the tiger.

@Hickorii-firemaw

There’s a line, archaeology has crossed it. Bad RNG in raid doesn’t cross it. These comparisons seem like a weak attempt at trying to save face.

This one I disagree with heavily because as I said bad RNG in a content with limited accessibility will hurt even more. I’ll ask my question… Will you kick a player from your Guild/raid just because due to bad luck they didn’t get a vital piece of gear before Phase 2?

But if comparisons with most common ways of upgrading annoys you. How about we compare it to World Drops? Not often but some of them can be BiS for a very very long time. And they rarely have rate higher than 1% Heck I still haven’t seen Enchant Weapon Crusader and honestly I’ve spent quite some time trying to get that one for my Alts.

I’ll sum it up with this though. Yes there is a big line Archeology crossed. But not one you or your fellow diggers see. The line I feel was crossed was putting items comparable with highest difficulty raids behind easily farmable content which causes min maxing masochists to spend unhealthy amount of time digging.

[Halfnatty-everlook]

I dont wanna interrupt your discussion here, however I feel like I have to say one thing most people who dont think a “bad luck protection” is needed have in their minds:
Low dropchance RNG is a thing in this game, whether you like it or dont, and as much as it annoys you, there is no right for you to collect every single item with an extremely low dropchance. Sounds hard, but thats how it is.

Everyone knew the chance to get an 85 epic is very low, yet they started the RNG grind. Some got lucky, some didnt.

[Greenmuppet-mirage-raceway]

Any inside information about the Legendary Warglaives? Currently they seem to be counted as “Warglaive” in the Appearance tab. Meaning we can’t use their appearance to transmog.

[Peridós-firemaw]

Nope they should also remove or increase raid lockouts.
It’s just gambling with your gametime at this point.
Especially since Cata is only there till 2025.
Since the dawn of time these gambling practices adds no real value to it. Someone will never get it and others in the second try with no real skill involved.
A baduck protection should not give it instantly away either but it should be on a number that is humanly possible to achiev.

[Shambulanssi-pyrewood-village]

Is it a bug or a feature that i cannot que RDF on normal wotlk dungeons when im 80. And if i try to que to spesific, i cant que on UP, HoL, HoS and Ocu

[Hadwisa-mirage-raceway]

Yes, it is a known bug, through you can get the ilvl for heroics pretty quickly doing icecrown quests.

[Kaivax]

May 20, 2024

Cataclysm Classic

• Players may skip directly to the beginning of Vashj’ir using a portal in their respective cities.
  • “Vashj’ir: Call of Duty” will remain available to players who skipped directly to “Sea Legs”.
• Hunter
  • Ancient Hysteria from Hunter Core Hound pets has been renamed Primal Rage. The debuff it causes has been renamed from Insanity to Fatigued.
  • Fixed a bug preventing pets from displaying in the Stable as intended.
• Mage
  • When Combustion gains damage from Ignite, that Ignite damage will not get increased a second time from Fire Mage Mastery Flashburn. It was already increased once by Flashburn when first applied.

[Anastaziya-mirage-raceway]

Bounce achievement isn’t working, not sure if its because I progressed too far and phased out of it, but this issue was in original Cata

Bounce

[Vvsone-venoxis]

the honor vendors are missing, we can’t farm honor because already capped and can’t spend it because no vendor while the JP vendor is already available

[Gréznawlèx-stormscale]

please add honor vendors…all my friends going crazy we cant spent our honor/jp

[Kaivax]

May 21, 2024

Cataclysm Classic

• Players experiencing phasing issues from Wrathgate or Battle for Undercity quests that are deprecated in Cataclysm Classic should now be in the correct phase in Orgrimmar and Undercity.
• Hunter
  • Hunter traps are now faster and more consistent in their arming times.
• Shaman
  • Fixed an issue with Shaman Greater Fire Elemental dealing too much damage with its Fire Nova spell.
• Warrior
  • Fixed an issue preventing Slam from being logged properly in the combat log.

[Shadow-gehennas]

Hey, few updates after today :
“Ready, Set, Goat” Quest achievement from EK = Not working
“My Very Own Broodmother” Quest achievement from Cata = Not working
“Help the Bombardier! I’m the Bombarbier” Quest achievement from Cata = Not working
“Littlest Pet Shop” General achievement for 150 pets = Celestial Dragon not rewarded

[Anastaziya-mirage-raceway]

After server restart can confirm Bounce achievement still isn’t working, not sure if its because I progressed too far and phased out of it, but this issue was in original Cata

Bounce

[Indæ-antonidas]

I wonder if i’m the only one, so here we go.
As holy priest, sometimes Chakra doesn’t proc Holy words spells (Serenity/Sanctuary) while in fight and i got stuck with Chastise for 30sec.
Also i can’t use Holy Word in a macro, nothing is working at all so i can’t mouseover it.
Last thing is about [Holy Word: Serenity] that doesn’t show aoe precast zone, but that is not essential.
Thank you in advance for reading,

[Kaivax]

May 22, 2024

Cataclysm Classic

• Fixed a bug preventing Diabolical Plans from dropping in Ashenvale for Horde players wanting to do “Never Again”.
• Cataclysm Honor Vendors should now be available in Stormwind and Orgrimmar to purchase ilvl 352 Blue PvP Gear for Honor Points.
  • Conquest and Elite Conquest vendors will not sell anything until Arena Season 9 begins with next week’s regional resets.
• Fixed a bug with the Thirty Tabards
• Fixed a bug preventing Engineers and Alchemists from making discoveries while crafting.
• Crafted “Vicious” gear that was unintentionally created at item level 377 has been adjusted to item level 339.
• In “Stonefather’s Boon”, the Stonefather’s Boon buff duration has been reduced to 10 seconds (was 3 minutes).
• Fixed some quest issues. Erunak Stonespeaker should now still be visible to players who have advanced further in the quest line at the original location to turn in “Call of Duty”. “All or Nothing”, “Blood and Thunder”, and “Defending the Rift” should no longer fail to complete if you are sitting or mounted.