However, what you stated is a lot of theory. Void Shift is sitting at the bottom of the tree. Baseline MG also doesn’t deal that much of a high damage - you need to spend 3 extra points to have it fully buffed up.
Don’t forget SP needs survability, therefore Power Word Life is also a mandatory pick - which is also sitting at the capstone of the three.
You can’t have it all a SP. You can’t have Shift, Power Word Life, Empowered MG, Mind Control, mass dispell, improved mass dispell, second target PI, blessed Recovery and so on at the same time. There’s simply not enough points for it all - you’re not taking this into consideration. Just because they’re at the three it doesn’t mean u can have them all at the same time.
And many of the ones you enumerated can be easily countered. MS effect can be two shot, roots can be oneshot.
As for punishing priest, SP is the only spec which had a single school of magic. At least now you need to decide as an opponent what you want to kick instead of doing it mindlessly on cd.
As for PvP talents, one slot is mandatory and taken with Void Origins, which leaves only two spots left - and most of SP’s PvP talents are uninteresting
Void Origins will be exchanged for Thoughtsteal depending on melee team or not.
Psyfiend is debatable although having the option is super strong. But Arms / Feral / SV & Spriest were always decent picks.
Looks extremely powerful to me thus far. Shadow Tree can be discussed since idk what will be good there yet.
But yes, definitely heavily overloaded and thus far shaping up to be one of the best caster specs if not the best one. And judging by my experience in pre-patch versus decent spriests they are completly insane.
Some things in there are debatable. Feathers are for example decent enough, PW:S & LoF movement speed can be exchanged for Flash Heal granting an additional 10% DR reduce aswell for example.
Aha kitty dmg feels nice, but it’s will be just for world content most likely. Arena it’s all about surviving, healing output these days.
I have bleed build ready to go, I hope it’s will be viable in 2vs2 at least.
You don’t have improved mass dispel
You don’t have power word life, which is a vital talent for SP survability
You don’t have From Darkness Comes The Light, which I consider to be a mandatory pick
You don’t have Void Origins, which is mandatory
You don’t have MS
Catharsis is broken (topic of the thread, d’oh) but it’s sitational, cuz like someone mentioned above if you’re not the target, it goes to waste
Also, a lot of other specs have a lot of tools as well, and insane damage, survability and whatnot
Do you? I feel like flat 10% damage reduce on a Flash Heal thats irrelevant if kicked sounds a ton better.
Not at all. Versus double melee, yes, for sure, versus Caster Teams, definitely not, versus Melee & Caster, maybe.
Versus Caster Teams you dont need Void Volley and thus you can just go Thoughtsteal, Psyfiend, Void Origins or just altogether a different talent for VO. Correct me if I am wrong but Misery shouldnt apply Carthasis, right? If it works so then Carthasis sounds like a decent lock in pick for every situation.
Really? Which ones are that, though? WW is squishy as a buck but deals insane damage, Havoc is a very strong pick rn but once they fix Blur being at like 80 or 90% dodge and Fodder one day or another gets nerfed or atleast damage tuned overall, they’ll fall out of favor quick again.
Arms and Fury are absolutely horrible and so is Enhance outside of Elemental Blast. Idk about Elemental.
Feral’s decent rn but with 40% bleed legendary gone they just have FF going for them again after no Tierset.
And Paladin’s a meme.
So which other specs have insane damage and survivability rn then? Apart from Rogue, I guess, and Warlock, which is getting gutted every week.
Sure you cant have everything at once that I mentioned, but to me Shadows shapes up to be the answer to literally everything the enemy teams offer currently.
I dont care about beta since thats always so heavily pre-tuning but which ones are good there?
It’s absolutely necessary. Power Word Life is insanely good. Too good to not pick. It crits for insane amount, and when used properly, very low CD. It has A LOT of value.
And I had forgotten to mention, but angelic bulkwark is also a very important pick, IMO
That 10% talent you mention is in the same node as from darkness, and u didn’t pick any. Both are good choices. I prefer the darkness one cuz makes Flash heal for a lot especially if it crits. Doing 90K crits with flash heal at 70
VS caster as well. You need to have your go instantly. Harcasting it, risking getting interrupted for 6 seonds is no fun
Mysery applies SW:P, therefore it applies catharsis. Just like damnation does.
Have you played caster against most melee? WW, Fury, Feral, Rogues in general, DH, etc.? endless gap closers, interrupts, semi interrupts, reflects/immunities/dispells, many CCs, a lot of self heal, a lot of effects like snares/ms effects passicely baked into normal abilities, and so on.
Go play a caster against a DK for example, and tell me how fun it is. AMS, AMZ, Silence, ICB, Spellwarding, stun, grip, pet stun, lichborne, etc.
Compared to other melee? Sure. But Retri seems pretty strong, despite the moaning you see on forums
Havoc, Fury, DKs, Rogues, WW, Enhancement - all have a lot of survability coupled with a lot of damage and cc. Ehancement has been nerfed, but I think it’s still solid
Idol of Y’Shaarj has some nice potential. Have your warlock mate fear the kill target or do it.by yourself with psychic scream → summon mindbender while you have the feared enemy targeted → happy bursting. Your dmg won’t break the fear effect it’s like you have a 6 sec stun on him. And you can still connect it with psychic horror afterwards.
Thing from beyond… I’m a bit sceptical here. Requires a lot of free casting to get it out and gets countered by LoS’ing rather easily… Tentacles could be good although I’m not a big fan of relying on RNG too much…
The thing is, how do you bait their trinket? If you fear the kill target, he can either trinket it, or their mate can easily dispel it. In theory it’s pretty strong, but in practice not so much, unless you’re playing in 1v1 but the trinket question remains. You’ll save PH for the kil target, which leaves you only with silence for their mate, and silence doesn’t last that long. A lot of stars need to align to be properly pulled
Cant speak for PW:L but regarding Angelic Bulwark: 15% max health on 90 second CD is not good at all, atleast not as a Final Node compared to Void Shift or a heavily buffed Mindgames. Thats a very poor Frenzied Regeneration from Well Honed Instincts. Compared to the extreme pressure a Mindgames can offer on a Druid for example I dont think its that great, and also, again, not necessary, considering how tanky Spriest already is to begin with with all previously mentioned talents.
I did mention it being replacable from the movement speed talent for PW:S and Leap of Faith due to Feathers. Also I still think a flat 10% damage reduce whenever you want to heal yourself compared to a stacking 50% heal is a better choice node.
Dont agree with Fury, WW and Enhancement having both insane damage and survivability at all. Specifically Enhance has no damage whatsoever outside of Elemental Blast anymore, that 25% nerf really hurt them completly.
WW’s survivability is also really, really bad right now. Fury took huge nerfs too. Maybe its very different on Beta compared to Pre-Patch with legendaries and Covenant still but thats only my experience.
So as we mentioned Warlock, DH, SP and Rogue. DKs I guess with their Will of Necropolis being nigh unkillable like Second Wind Warriors from MoP. But unless things are super drastically different, I wouldnt call WW, Enhance or Fury insane. They may hit hard but they are far, far from what SP, Warlock and DH have gotten for love in DF.
Evoker will be interesting. I still think they are a complete meme just as Paladins since their 25 yard range with okay mobility will not be enough. Just imagine facing a DK/DH team as an Evoker, yeah, nah. Enemy casters will just walk circles around you too. Mobility is limited as an Evoker with 20s charges each so it’ll be interesting tomorrow how they actually play out.
Bulwark is a good choice for 1v1 situations cuz it procs, but ye, you can’t have it all. I’d obviously prefer to spend points to get Void Shift instead. However, PW:L is absolutely mandatory for survability. And to be able to reach PW:L and Void Shift, that alone takes up a lot of talents right away. Some priests will likely sacrifice PW:L to get improved MG, but I personally think it’s not worth it. I’d rather have PW:L and light’s inspiration. Lots of instant heal, making Dispersion an emergency button
You’ll already have a 10% damage reduction, and instant cast, with Translucent Image. Anyways, both are good talent picks and I think it’s a matter of playstyle preference. I prefer to have 90+K flash heal crits
I guess you haven’t played against any? Fury is doing obscene damage and has a LOT of self-heal. Enhance heals a LOT as well with instans, and has a very scary burst. Compare Ehance to Ele, where Ele doesn’t even get any instant Healing Surges like Enhance does. WW has diffuse magic, instant vivify, statue with heal, expel harm also criting for very high amounts.
Don’t forget besides the heals, WW has a lot of tools/utility contrubuting to is survability, including a plethora of semi interrupts, endless mobility, teleport, karma, diffuse magic, disarm, parry embedded into FoF. Is it one of the most squishiest melee? Yes, but that doesn’t mean it lacks survability.
As for Fury, even on level 70 they have a lot of damage and self heal. It’s not a prepatch thing only. Fury is really one of the best melee currently on levl 70.
I guess we’ll agree to disagree then. ESPECIALLY about Fury.
Evoker has 30 yards now, and has received a lot of buffs and changes. I’m getting two tapped by them at 70, and they have a lot of tools now, including three stacks of cc immunity (which sure, can be purged - but among the three stacks and other buffs, unless you have a class which can spam purge, you’ll just have ur cc eaten away). Evoker seems to have a high skill ceiling, cuz I’ve played against some which I easily destroyed, and I’ve also gotten easily destroyed by others. They have a lot of mobilty, cast on the run, cc and survability. They were kinda meme months ago, but not anymore. IDK how they are at pre-patch level 60 - I’m talking about them at 70 max level pvp gear
You literally kite or CC Fury during Enraged Regeneration and they are useless currently on pre-patch. When Enhance heals themselves, they sacrifice all their Maelstrom Stacks, so they either deal damage or heal, but since all damage is baked into Maelstrom Weapon, they dont really pack a punch.
You again said insane survivability. WW still has none of that.
Except it does. WW is a joke compared to any other melee apart from Warrior right now. The only thing they got going for them is Bonedust Brew with Windlord and Thunderfist.
Only Preservation has gotten the 30 yard treatment. They have a lot of damage but again, they have nothing to back it up with. Yes, they buffed Obsidian Scales to 2 charges and 30% damage reduction each, yes, they got 3 CC soaks, but they still are 25 yards with mediocre mobility in a very fast explosive meta, while also mostly having to hardcast primarily for dealing damage with Disintegrates.
The only reason they are doing well with their kit is cause they are a tuning massacre. Either they oneshot you with their build or they will 100% not do anything. Imagine a skilled DH, a DK or a Feral sticking 24/7 to an Evoker. He will do nothing.
From what perspective are you making your posts? From a DH perspective? Because if so I can understand why you may feel Fury, WW, Enhance aren’t a threat.
As for Evokers you’re dearly mistaken if you think they don’t have mobility or don’t put up perssure, OR you only dueled skilless ones so far. As I’ve said, I’m getting two tapped by Evoker on Beta right now, and when played well they put up a lot of pressure, coupled with a lot of survability. And they have acess to immunity to interrupts
Been only playing Feral thus far and all three specs you mention are a non-issue. I dont think a good Shadow Priest will struggle with any of the three either with all the massive tools they have at their disposal.
Lemme precise it then a bit more: They dont really have mobility to get that damage rolling. Whats a 25 yard caster gonna do if people kite him? He has 2x charges at 35 seconds (because everyone will dispell the Bronze buff anyway) for 10 seconds each iirc and a third every two minutes. If he doesnt get random Eternity Surge procs through Scintilation his Disintegrates tickle on Beta.
Tuning massacre. Nothing to do with how good the class’ kit is.
Lets see that then in a couple months. I highly doubt they stand any chance with how they’re built against any high rated players currently.
My post is not made out of “struggling”. I can still kill Fury warr, or WWs. But even as SP, which again needs to be looked at, as per this thread, I can see the outliers including the one I’m playing. DHs are in a complete other league compared to everyone else, along with Affli (and the latter I won’t be optimistic for now, even after the nerfs. I have to see them in action first). Fury, SP, WW, Enhance and Evoker are defenitely S tier though, along with a couple of others like Demo.
They do have the mobility and cc/toolkit to get their damage going. You just haven’t found any who used their tool kit, or talents properly. I’ve got two tapped multiple times on my hunter, while getting locked down at the same time
Except they have pretty good class kit. But yes , let’s wait and see by all means. It isn’t too far off anyways.
Hey lets just wait and see what happens. I just dont think a short-range caster that has no spammable CC and unreliable damage outside of its burst is gonna end up decent. Wait until people learn how to play against them and they’ll be quickly dealt with.
Maybe they are super good too, who knows. But they hardly will be able to get melees off of them and then just stand there hardcasting Disintegrates and Living Flame for no damage. They do seem like a proc-based spec so maybe their pressure comes from there.
Stuff like Obsidian Mettle (interrupt and knock-back immunity PvP talent) with 2 Obsidian Scale charges is pretty good for example. Maybe they end up the most frustrating class to face since you cant kick, cc or stop them at all with their 3 CC charges and Obsidian Mettle. Would be funny.
One is that it doesn’t seem to have cooldown so you can endlessly benefit from it
Secondly, I think it may be bugged or may be affected by modifiers (which is senseless). The tool states it’s 15% of HP in damage back to the enemy, but even on pre-patch it seems to be hitting a lot more than that. I sometimes get hit with 30+K, and that’s impossible under correct math - so the only explanation is modifiers, and the ability should not be affected by it
You’re probably right. I actually thought it was at least 20% and that there wasn’t a limit on how much of the damage taken it stored.
I saw now that it is 20% of damage taken, up to 15% of HP. The speed it builds up with (possibly correct due to DH + WW etc), and the damage it deals, tells me this is bugged.