It’s just straight up beyond me how people can be upset about blizzard revoking bans they gave out on further inspection.
I’m not upset about people being unbanned. Like, at all. I didn’t even know that blizzard revoked those bans.
I just have no sympathy for people that complain about getting banned after they violated the terms of use. A legally binding contract they signed themselves.
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Except as its been discussed in thread there may be cases in the EU where it may not be legally binding due to local laws.
Also for clarity I was never banned for this, I only just started playing again
This may be the case, but just imagine an MMO in which nobody could be banned, no matter what they did.
I certainly wouldn’t play this MMO.
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It’s correct to ban any hacker for any infringement. The hacker effectively requested a ban. Then after they are banned, the hacker can simply appeal. And blizz, at their discretion can adjust/remove the ban based on severity.
However, in my opinion, hacking game code in itself is severe enough to warrant a perma ban. But blizz have to weigh up the pros and cons of that. I’m guessing blizz are happy with the raised awareness outcome. I hope next time they bite the bullet. We really don’t need hackers in WoW, regardless of what they are up to.
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Denmark is a small country, but it is also a powerhouse when it comes to law. And it might very well be a place like that, these kinds of law changes might start? I’m not gonna push anything, I have no personal wish to do so, though the topic is peaking my interest. I guess what they(blizzard) are doing right now, with exactly reviving the classic, could (intentionally?) avoid a potential lawsuit? Which i find kind of an interesting approach, if they(blizzard) already were to accomodate that idea?
-Then the future might be bright anyway, however I think game makers being able to ban in competetive settings and multi-player games are perfectly fine and should be folly allowed in any case.
Before moving on, I have to say we are moving quite far from the original topic on these posts.
I do find it funny you mention diablo 2, I don’t know what the current patch is, I personally stopped playing almost completly around 1.10/1.11 I think.? I always enjoyed playing it multi player, but my real joy of the game came from LoD right after it’s release. I played a trap-sin and had the most fun summer, I never enjoyed D2 more than that. Not only are you able to play Lan and by VPN, I’ve also seen some private battlnet servers, by editing the registry files. But I don’t know if that still exists in the same way?
As you are probably aware of this can be done with WoW as well, by downloading a project setup a database and compile it all, if it’s not already done in the project(i’m not gonna expand anymore on that how,where etc. as it might be close to rules?). I spent my time on this before I got my first wow account(this is what sparked my real interest in games and developing, even though it later turned out I’m more interested in developing stories, all for educational purpose ofc.), when my guardian played their account. So this really can be done, by a kid if you just have time enough time.
With TBC I got my own first account, but it was quickly perma-banned few levels before I reached max. I wanted to see what it was like to fly and I was an impatient kid. cough(Here is where I get’s slightly back on topic: That is when Iearned about injectors, and that I should’ve used one to stay undetected) cough.
So, I started messing with servers again. I managed to get a hold on a partly finished Lich king projects(A LOT was still missing) and got it running somewhat smooth locally, before the full game was released by Blizzard. And let me tell you, I LOVED Grizzly hills and still think it’s one of the most gorgeous zones ever made. That zone alone made me buy the game once again, this account.
I’ve never really played locally or on private servers, since it’s kinda boring to play alone. The same way I find solo play in live WoW kinda boring.
I believe in the tos and eula states no modifications to the client but you all have read the rules ![:thinking:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/thinking.png?v=6" ":thinking:")
So all drama happened cause small indie company™ failed to add proper armor and character customization and then banned players who decided to take the matter in their own hands.
Wow… Just wow. And don’t give me crap about ‘but it could have been abused’. Yeah, and that’s why instead of bringing token body positive humans you could set your priority straight and add proper customization and armor.
Hell, you could even sell skimpymog in cash shop and employ creators of replacement mods if you don’t have people and money to do that. From what I’ve seen their armor and body models are sometimes better than ones Blizz made.
I like the fact that Blizz removed bans, though. That was an adequate move.
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The punishment should fit the ‘crime’.
6 months seems a bit excessive in this case.
Don’t get me wrong, hacking should definitely not go unpunished.
But intent and effect should affect the manner of punishment.
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Could’ve, not Should’ve!
So I never touhed private servers for wow since that.
The point is they didnt hack the code, they used a 3rd party program that tricked wow into running with modded texture/model files so that when they played instead of the normal model/texture they had a custom one. Others took it further and wrote custom scripts that caused things like rouges stealth effect to emit smoke or grow gigantic when the unstelthed.
They both broke the TOS but one group did nothing malicious while the other exploited it to the detriment of others.
There is nuance in this.
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Are you ok there? replying to yourself?
Yea, sorry. I just had to clearify and couldn’t edit the post I already made ^^
Note: I haven’t read every post in this thread yet, just simply wanted to give my own two cents regarding the “It’s against the ToS!” people.
Here’s some other things against the ToS;
- Datamining. Yet websites like wowhead are praised by community and Blizzard both.
- Private servers. Yet the people running a very popular private server got invited to have a chat with Blizzard which ultimately led to Classic WoW.
- Up until recently, allowing Horde and Alliance to speak. This to Blizzard’s credit seems to have been edited out now (Granted I did just skim not read the entire thing thoroughly before writing this post), but the point still stands; there were no bans/warnings, instead Blizzard (finally! I was for this, just using it as an example) added a potion to do just that.
My point is, Blizzard’s ToS has plenty holes, so it’s not unsurprising that people were shocked to find their accounts banned for something purely cosmetic, purely client side. Blizzard has let plenty breaches of their terms happen over the years, so given the silence, yeah. Small wonder people assumed it was safe.
Furthermore, in my own case, one reason why I eventually figured it would be fine was because one of Blizzard’s own developers retweeted a modded transmog posted by someone relatively well known for posting modded mogs. I don’t really have links as this was about a year ago, but yeah. Stuff like that again seems to show it was fine.
I honestly think the ToS are well overdue for an update on what is and isn’t okay. I also think Blizzard should take a good look at what was modded and see about implementing the stuff.
Obviously they can’t do the 18+ mods as those would bump up the age rating on the game and such, and I understand why those are the first thing the community points at - the most controversial stuff gets the most attention. But there were other popular examples of mods aswell; namely being higher res versions of older gear and the ability to have High Elf options for Void Elves; something the community has been pretty loud about wanting and ultimately took upon themselves to fix not unlike the Classic WoW crowd. Something Blizz might finally look at, now?
Anyhow, just my 2 cents. I’m on a break from the game recently anyway so it doesn’t affect me much if at all, but the discussions sparked on twitter made me want to throw in my thoughts on the matter.
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They’re definitely not releasing Classic to avoid a lawsuit. That I can guarantee you. But they are making classic because they have done something pretty unethical in the past, and now it’s come around to bite them. In a nutshell, they’ve taken a game and altered it so far that it no longer resembles the original product in any way whatsoever. It doesn’t even have the same locations (with more added), stories, quests, or even mechaniocs, or… literally ANYTHING.
Nevertheless, the original product is completely gone. It has been completely changed and there is no getting it back, and because of Games as a Service it’s so far gone even Blizzard can’t restore it, even when they want to. World of Warcraft 1.1.0 is GONE. It can never be reproduced again in spite of the fact that I have a box that contains a huge chunk of it right in front of me! And I own that software! It just so happens to be useless now, because Blizzard removed the other half of it deliberately. Was I scammed when I bought that? You could make that argument if, for whatever reason, you don’t consider the current game an improvement on the original. And I don’t…
Makes you think, huh? That one of the best pieces of art in video game history is just gone. Like that.
Yes, but this is specifically in breach of the contract. Not in breach of the law though - in fact Danish law specifically allows for taking a product that’s broken (i.e. a WoW game without a usable account, say, because it’s been banned) and taking it to a third party to get it “fixed”, i.e. get WoW working again. But there’s some complications to this, of course, which is primarily that Blizzard doesn’t want you to, and they’ll get pretty nasty with misusing copyright law in the event that you should attempt it. And of course they can ban you from the live service for trying, which is within their right, and most people don’t want that to happen so…
Obviously copyright law or indeed intellectual property law does not permit for shutting down people who are reverse engineering your code unless they can demonstrably prove that you used knowledge of the code attained from working at or with Blizzard to make that software. Pretty much the entire history of the computer is people who were building computers that resembled IBM’s Personal Computer so much that they could run software written for it. Is anyone going to seriously suggest that Hewlett Packard or ASUS and so on are breaking the law? Of course not! But that’s exactly what Blizzard does when they shut down a private server. The only reason they can even do it at all is because the people who create those servers actually respect Blizzard!
So my argument is that Blizzard have every right to ban you from WoW for doing that, but they do not really have the right to prevent you from playing WoW at all in doing so. Now obviously WoW is an online game and so there’s no reason for you to want to play single player, and you clearly did cheat, so I’m not actually against Blizzard’s model per se, but the law doesn’t really split down the line of “I like it” and “I don’t like it”.
This. It really is worth attention. It is forbidden by the EULA: EULA 1.C.vi
Data Mining : Use any unauthorized process or software that intercepts, collects, reads, or “mines” information generated or stored by the Platform; provided, however, that Blizzard may, at its sole and absolute discretion, allow the use of certain third-party user interfaces.
But in a similar way, use of game footage on YouTube is inherently forbidden by copyright law. Blizzard hold the copyright to these models and music, and, while there are exceptions, other people may not use them without explicit permission. But Blizzard are fine with it.
When YouTube did a big automated crackdown of copyright infringement a couple of years ago, several major YouTubers praised Blizzard’s response, which was to tell YouTube to back off such videos, and even get involved to the level of manually destriking individual videos.
Blizzard have to make certain claims to protect their company and their IP, and their exclusive right to make content based on their work. That doesn’t mean they want to punish individuals who love the game from creating derivative works - including texture mods.
My theory about this incident is that they knew about the general hack method all along, but let it slide. Then they noticed it starting to be used for purposes other than cosmetic, and had to clamp down. They issued a blanket ban to get everybody’s attention, but with the intention all along to back off and make it a Warning. But they did get the modders’ attention!
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My quote tool is broken?
I had it backwards completly, thanks for clearifying. It is a bit scary to think the philosophy can change so drasticly from one game to another, D2 vs. WoW e.g. I’ve never really thought of it this way to be honest, like many of Blizzards initial games, wow was one of, if not, the best product available at it’s release. Not only the original, but the first expansions as well. I think improving products are good, but I also very much see your point regarding the evolution the game has been through. I absolutely adore wow myself and had a blast of time with it in the past, but not so much lately.
I’ve never once been involved in private servers, at the same time I owned a retail account. It was before I even got an account, as well as in time I was banned between my first and second account. All the information and tools I used, was publicly available to everyone on the internet and still are. As stated, what I did was for educational purpose only and purely out of facination as well.
-So I completly get why Nostalrious shut down their project. Didn’t they also move on to discuss and trade information and such with Blizzard, which eventually resulted in classic wow as I understand it?
Ofc. they had the right to ban me, hacking should be punished accordingly. Seen with my own eyes today, I wouldn’t want myself in the game as a hacker - I’d avoid my younger self like the plague ![:joy:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/joy.png?v=6" ":joy:")
Eventually I came to realize that, sadly only after being way too stupid, which had a price. Life lessons are learned in times of bans, atoning for breaking a game(or anything for that matter) you care about is no joke. I changed a lot about the way I thought about gaming(and much more), that I probably could’ve learned in much worse ways being honest about it, which is the point I’m trying to make. Suddently a game became very much real, but it’s still “just a game”
-You could say I’m “happy” they’ve banned me, when they’ve done so.
Yep. The ToS is a bit of joke really. Breaking half of it can get you banned for all events, breaking others will get you invited to party dinners. Idk what they’re doing, but hey…
Not really. Turning a game into a video is considered transformative. Otherwise Twitch would be entirely illegal.
Right? I mean I’m pretty much on this board every freaking day saying “They took WoW away from me. This isn’t an MMORPG anymore. I like it less than the original”.
I would prefer for them to support an actual WoW MMORPG moving forward as opposed to just letting me play vanilla again, but fact of the matter is Blizzard literally removed the game I purchased as of now.
Correct. The Nostalrius team had a lot of respect for Blizzard. When they received their C&D, Blizzard reached out to the community and basically said “Sorry… We had to”.
Which video? containing what? in which countries?
“Illegal” in a criminal sense? no, I think probably not, in Europe and US at least. Actionable in a civil suit? Quite likely.
Since I’m not licenced to practice law in even one country, much less all of them, I don’t think it’s worth getting too deep into all this. I do note, though, that Blizzard, among other gamemakers, has claimed copyright on some materials and shut them down on YouTube and Twitch.
Also, I so agree with
Doesn’t really matter what the country is. They were uploaded to YouTube or Amazon, which means they’re responsible under US copyright law. That means fair use applies.
The law applies the same in a civil suit as in a criminal suit. The only difference is that a criminal suit is filed on behalf of the state, usually because of police action, whereas a civil suit is filed by another private entity. Whether the action done by the defendant is illegal or not is governed by the same laws regardless.
And yes, it’s true that some game makers have make quite a bit of a fuss about transformative works on their games, such as Nintendo. This has generally been to their detriment. YouTube probably could have fought this, but decided not to because it would expose them to unnecesary risks, so they just folded. Wasn’t really their problem anyway.