Count 'em. There’s 16 on the right side of your character. Along the bottom there are another 8 on the upper 4 by 2. That’s now 24.
I’m not sure about the 4 at the bottom. Same with that swiftness on the right - two of them. They look like the same? Not adding them. Should I add the potions? Ahhh, I dunno. Whatever.
That’s 24. And they all seem to be CD’s.
Add these bad boys and we’re at 32.
Think we got a few duplicates in here though. But then we didn’t add the potions.
It’s around 30.
But honestly even 30 isn’t the end of the world for me. I’d say it’s sliiightly too many, but I can live with it. It’s fine. As long as they’re well designed and there’s interesting choices about when to cast which it’s all good. Shamans always had a lot of spells.
Also, binding left or right mouse click is very bad, because sometimes you wanna walk forward and look what’s behind you, without turning your char, especially for casters
Ishayo. Its not the amount of skills you got. Its the amount of buttons you have to deal with. Physical buttons.
Think about it. Why is it that learning the guitar is easier than the piano? Is it the songs? NOPE. Its the amount of actual buttons you have to press.
Lets put it this way. The 1 button macro. Its just ONE button. But the same 24 skills. Nobody is complaining about “button bloat” of the 1-button macro are they?
And we can go a step further. BL is a button too. But its used every 10 minutes. Riptide is a spell you spam every 6 seconds. They are both buttons. But not the same in terms of “bloat”.
Same for raid buffs that you cast ONCE every hour. Those are buttons too. But they dont count because you use them once at the start of the dungeon and forget about them.
SO you are over-thinking what the real problem is.
If you really, really want to get into the nuks and crannies of spec button, you have to look deeper. Past the obvious.
You already know what my opinion about Healing Surge and Healing Wave is. Two buttons that do the same thing and blizzard desperately has to find weird ways to differentiate them.
THAT is an issue. THAT is button bloat.
But the raw number of spells? Is not. And never was.
Like I said. 42 of which maybe only 5 or 6 are actually core, spamamable spells that you use every 20s atleast. The rest… like arcane intellect. Should not even count.
And from those, which spells are in the same situation as Healing Surge and Healing wave? 2 spells that do the same. Get into the details.
But what you do… is simply whining. In my humble opinion.
Theres is more in the game since df if we compare it to shadowlands designs. Choises between talents in sl were then made in df trees to be able play them all.
The amount of cc also doubled between all specs and blizz had to nerf all cc durations cause it.
There is also more defensives and dmg modifiers and just abilities in general than what there were in shadowlands.
The amount of everything in pvp in general is a lot. But on another topic the 8 classes I play and their various specs, I find all of their designs and the hero talents clunky at best gameplay wise anyways.
Removing few buttons wouldnt do much for me when I think that many of the classes are just weird with their new designs.
Also the amount of procs and stacked modifiers makes this gameplay where your ability hits for 800k for base dmg and then with every modifier stacked it does 4-5 million dmg and feels boring to press outside of those brief windows of everything stacked.
These spikes of dmg feel random at times when the game is not so easily readable anymore. You need auras and addons if you begin try PvP, entry level is to install dozen addons and get weakauras to tell you whats happening cause the game itself is not readable.
All my classes seem to have between 5-10 modifiers that need to be stacked before ability really even moves any health, the crit dmg modifiers are the biggest offenders right now, those are not wise to give too many of them for a spec cause once they get figured out ppl do these crazy one shots. If nobody stops them with cc or presses immunity they will die, the game becomes fast paced and that dont work so well with people that are running away from their healers all game without any awareness even of their own teams positions.
I dont really have any suggestions to this as I would just rework all classes again and ditch hero trees entirely with it as well. I just posted to say that most specs do have more abilities since df if we compare to shadowlands. I hope the next exp is not as bloated with so many procs and modifiers, its even killing processor.
Spells like buffs get removed with purges that most specs have now, then they get rebuffed at best next window. So ppl have binds for int, fort, mark etc. Clicking any abilities with mouse is not an option in pvp either I would suggest. And we need mouse for movement so we cant bind things on clicks either, but I use mouseover macros a lot. Long cds are good to keep binded as well. Some do macros that target party members but I feel it only creates more binds so I make do with mouseover macros on partyframes where I can play whackamole if I play healer.
What bothers me is the amount of procs that you have to deal it, im level 33 and i have already 4 procs to keep track of. I fear what it will look like at lv70
The beauty of playing a healer is that you can eliminate 80% of your keybinds by downloading Cell/Vuhdo and just keep CDs + your 1-3 DPS buttons on the bar.
And the beauty of a bear tank is that I can hardly fill my hot bars even without Cell!
That’s total niche and the game should definitely not be designed around that.
I suppose there are some classes for which it may be a bit much, but BM Hunter is not one of them and I don’t want it changed. So IF they tackle bloat, I hope they do it very sparingly and only where needed. No need to ‘fix’ what isn’t broken.
So, how many abilities is then acceptable? I don’t think I have any spec which relies on more than ±8-10 rotational abilities. The rest is a cooldown, highly conditional, or rarely used.
I don’t think tuning these numbers down works well. We’ve seen these “pruning” rounds before. And they always ended up in plenty complaints, and having abilities re-added again.
I would hate to see WoW become a MOBA-like game with like 7 abilities in total. Just play a MOBA if you’re into that.
If we look at how much Ret Pala who has a really simple rota apart from all the stuf paladin brings is played I say maybe we should have like on “moba” spec that has a similarly simple rota and not a ton of utility and other class abilities.
That could be the “simple” spec the go to for casuals but it get tune to be middle of the pack at best
Many people fear pruning because they think what will happen is what happened in WoD.
But it could and should be done differently this time.
Also less button presses per a set amount of time does not automatically mean stupefied specs. The interactions and nuance that could be introduced into the rotation in return for eliminating the “waste” could very well make it so mastering a spec becomes more difficult than it was before.
Many just fear change and hold onto the current state of things, unable to even fathom how debloating could lead to skill ceilings rising WHILE allowing for average players to succeed with less sweat.
But they should start with the modifiers and procs, not the actual number of spells a spec has, and if needed, take it from there.
The only people defending the button bloat are those that have an advantage because they have modified their experience from the “default” to have an advantage over those who haven’t modified it yet.
I shouldn’t have to download addons to efficiently use my abilities, the game should be designed around the assumption of not having any addons.
I shouldn’t have to create clever macros, every slot on the bars should hold exactly 1 ability
I shouldn’t have to purchase specialized keyboard/mouse designed for MMOs, the basic 104-key keyboard and 2-button mouse with scroll should cover every case.
Every ability counts for button bloat, regardless if it’s used every 5 seconds or not even once every instance.
I have 32 shaman abilities on my main 4 bars. I have 5 more (still shaman abilities) in the off-bars that appear on-screen when out combat and disappear when in-combat (abilities like weapon imbues, Water Shield and the likes). I have intentionally created a build that has less active abilities than usual explicitly to reduce button bloat. In addition to those I have: Engineering potion, Glider, Racial ability, Alchemy potion, Warlock Healthstone, Trinket 1, Trinket 2 (for when I have 2 on-use trinkets), Engineering (wrist) tinker. That’s 40 abilities. And then I have some abilities that find use here and there, like the new bottle-with-a-rock that stuns pretty much every boss in Delves, the Go-go juice that is a seasonal speed-up consumable, Mount for when we can mount during bosses etc.
The fact that some may not see usage even for an entire week does not make them useless. Poison Totem can be useful. Tremor Totem can be useful (yes, in PvE). Hex can be useful
Personally, I am okay with buttons, because I use mmo mouse + keybinds on my keyboard. For healing spells I use: \zxc (very useful) for example. I do not use click casting. Healers have more buttons than DPS as well
I could not be able to play without MMO mouse for sure though (I use buttons, Alt+buttons from mouse, and Shift+buttons)
ibb. co/pvx8w71m (a bit messy, but works for me)
I would be up for blizzard adding another CD for Hpriest as well
Maybe you should try GW2 if wow has too many buttons
Pvp is as much part of the game than anything else. This thread is not about pvp or pve specifically though, its of the button bloat and awkward designs of classes that only got worse from df into current expansion. They design the game currently only for m+ in mind which has caused multiple problems elsewhere on the class designs or cc.
Every class is not supposed to have access for 4-5 cc. Its the biggest complaint as well the amount of procs and modifiers spiking dmg. But if you dont participate in pvp anyway then none of this obviously matters to you but for else who play it daily in some content in pvp, the amount of cc bloat is one of the biggest complaints ppl make because frankly it is quite annoying to have gameplay where you get stuck on random root, random stun, random incap then random root again and then knockback and then finally someone targets you and actually means to put some cc which they then repeat 3x, the rest of the cc were from aoe effects the game is now bloated for cc as well, meaning that we are hit by random conditions constantly that prevents us play and they are not even always meant for us.
It’s not about “can”. It’s more about “should”, “want”, and whether it’s good for the game in general
I recommend people to take this idea of ego and how good of a player you think you are out of the equation of whether it’s good for the game or not. This is all just hot air. In the end, what matters the most is if the game is fun to play.
All these ideas of skill-expression, or being an expert at your class or whatever only matter, if a lot of people have fun playing the game. If they don’t, it’s all for the trash can.
The answer to that right now is no but that’s not Becuase of button bloat. Honestly think I’m done till midnight ones gallywix dies. Going to play lock in mop. Any servers good for alliance on eu?
