It’s a hard job being a guard, isn’t it ? Though from what I hear your guildmates managed rather well last night.
The thing with papers is that they imply authorization from lore figures. Even Shaw had papers from Baine and Rexxar from Velen. I don’t think any RP’er should invoke that kind of authority to justify walking in the lands of another faction and that’s the only kind of authority that will do for diplomatic immunity. Even then, they’d need a reason for such. You get diplomatic immunity if, you know, you’re on a diplomatic mission agreed by both sides, not just to go on a stroll in Stomwind or Orgrimmar. People often forget that even if the war is over, borders and factions are still a thing and neither faction would welcome a potential security threat in their territory.
I’d disagree on that matter though. Keep in mind not all of them were Sylvanas’ elite and loyal soldiers for years. Kaldorei, at least, were recently raised and by force, if memory serves. It wouldn’t be far fetched for them to seek to rejoin their people now that the war is over and Sylvanas has essentially betrayed them. Their loyalties would not be overly strong, the only reason they served her, if I recall correctly, was anger at feeling betrayed by Elune. Though yeah, the examples we have in lore remain Forsaken and in the case of Blood/Void Elves it makes even less sense. Those were Sylvanas’ companions ever since vanilla.
It makes as much sense as me randomly walking into Orgrimmar with my paladin and expecting people to be happy to see me. Even if a dark ranger leaves the Forsaken and tries to ‘‘carve her own path in this world’’ to paraphrase Sylvanas, they’d still probably spend some time in the shadows, maybe doing mercenary work and staying away from populated places until they’d know they’d be safe. It’s the idea I have for my Kaldorei dark ranger because after all that happened she expects people to want her head, not to greet her warmly and ask her out for a drink.
Previously both Ebon Blade, Ren’dorei were introduced to the players with some lore and reason why they were allowed. Dark Ranger skin - is just a cosmetic thing, and Blizzard didn’t even introduce them.
That’s a fair point. For some reason, I keep to forget Kaldorei Darkfallen (only Queldorei/Sindorei sticks to my mind…) so with that said, you’re right.
But then I’d still question their motives. Betrayed by the alliance, they want to go back to the alliance? (Or their territories). It’s not a Stockholm syndrome, right? Right? >.>
This is what makes concepts like these outside of the cities - a gem. For real.
If people would travel more around the world of Azeroth, then meeting a Dark Ranger on your path to Destination A, would create a plenthora of interesting situations. Be it a fight, a conversation or a deal or something.
I guess it’s a complicated situation no matter which way you slice it. Darkfallen have loyalties all over the place, and some are even striking out to carve their own undead fiefdoms in the case of san’layn.
Mistrust and barely contained revulsion seems entirely appropriate with the Alliance, and to a lesser degree the Horde as well. As I personally see things, the main difference being that the Horde has an entire nation of the undead as one of its member peoples, so it stands to reason they’re less wired to immediately jump for a weapon than Team Blue might be. If you’re a Stormwind guard… I guess you’d be wary of the individual, perhaps question their intentions and reason for being around the living, but ultimately avoid a confrontation unless warranted.
I mean… Sylvanas did work for the Jailer and together with Kel’Thuzad. The same people behind Arthas… because… because… It seems to run in the darkfallen family, Stockholm syndrome that is.
Yes, as I’ve said, in terms of RP opportunities there are plenty, assuming they’re done right. You can have anything from a darkfallen trying to take over a small group of Scourge and cause havoc (like the San’Layn in the blood elf questline), a dark ranger loyal to the Forsaken trying to help her people rebuild or a fallen sentinel who feels resentful and also remorseful, leaves the Forsaken and wishes she could go back, but she can’t, and instead ends up wandering alone, maybe as a merc, maybe as some sort of vigilante, maybe both. Both not in Light damn-… uhm, I mean blessed, Stormwind.
There are opportunities and there are certainly good dark ranger roleplayers out there, potentially at least. I’ve got to read some pretty well made TRP’s on some of them, but I don’t expect to meet them in the Blue Recluse for a drink.
And that’s another thing that people often ignore, the cultural aspect of it all. If you look at it from the Horde side you may not understand why the people of Stormwind would be so eager to put down this nice undead wanting to work for them. But we’re talking about a people and a kingdom that’s predominantly built around faith in the Light, about a race which has a rather negative experience with Undead, Orcs, Trolls and the like. And where self-righteousness is, for better or worse, a thing. There’s also people trying to actually defend DR and those always put me off, depending on race, class and overall background. A worgen who’s lost Gilneas to the Forsaken defending a DR ? Genn would go mad. A paladin who tends to see undead as abominations ? Even more so the classic HMP with our sweet obsession for Lordaeron.
Case in point, people are not tabula rasa, they are born and raised into a culture that shapes their way of thinking, their worldview. Their life experiences further help to solidify or change that. Valdarth distrusted void elves at the start, yet he grew up fighting alongside void elves and respecting them. Void Elves would be less likely to judge dark rangers since they’ve been put in similar situations against their will, yet Stormwind is a predominantly human city, with humans laws and culture, with faith in the Light at its centre. Not much of a place for a dark ranger. The Horde are far more used to certain things that may be dark, unholy or whatever than most Alliance races are. The Horde is also far less self-righteous in its worldview and more pragmatic.
The issue is they can’t do that. Because of the lack of lore on the matter and the fact dark ranger would still be seen as enemies guard roleplayers are put in an impossible situation. Either killing them, banishing them, or ignoring them. Neither of those options are very sound. OOC you want to treat other players with some level of respect and decency, not go on and kill their character. And ignoring people is never a good option, but sometimes things just don’t make sense. Because guard npc’s wouldn’t allow certain people in. Just like guard npc’s wouldn’t allow warlocks with their pets out, as Metzen once said, if not for game mechanics. Yet you see them now and again… Or scarlet roleplayers walking in SW all red and white. It’s a wonderful, wonderful life.
That thing would never stand in SWTOR. People are less prone to accept things that don’t fit the lore.
During the lordaeron quests a dark ranger tells us some specifically Night Elven dark rangers are seeking a return to the Alliance, and she wonders if they’d be accepted.
Knowing how Sylvanas was judged by Tyrande, we can pretty fairly assume they’d be accepted but with the caveat that they must serve some sort of penance. i.e no hanging around in Stormwind.
The void elf dark rangers however are another matter entirely and make about as much sense as nightborne and mechagnome having the monk class.
The decision was not made with any care or consideration, they just decided to throw it into the mix without a scrap of lore.
Given the absolutely unsatisfying footnote of lore we have to work with, making a call of confirmed hostility is honestly as problematic from my perspective. Allusions are clearly being made to some development concerning Darkfallen relations with the Alliance, although yes, we do run into the issue of it not being resolved so far.
If I had the guts to ever take on guard RP in SW, I’d try to resort things with a balance of IC mistrust and thinly veiled hostility… without jumping off into the deep end of character killing. One could feasibly nod towards the lack of conclusive lore as of yet, and demand the Darkfallen leave the city until orders to the contrary are given by Alliance leadership. At that point it’s on the Darkfallen RPers to either acknowledge this to some extent, or go about their visit in a more subtle manner.
Gameplay > Lore, thus Alliance Darkfallen in Stormwind is now officialy a thing.
But, how are you gonna approach it when Blizzard eventually announces that Dark Rangers were welcomed back into the Alliance/Night Elf with open arms? (You know Blizzard is gonna announce it at one point)
Also there are Death Knights who choose their factions above the Ebon Blade while being a member of the Ebon Blade, so Undeaths in the Alliance has been a thing since WoTLK
It was said that they were allowed to rejoin the Alliance if they want to but some/most found there home in Lordaeron.
Why would Turalyon care about what Calia or some rando horde NPC wants?
Why would Greymane, who tasked the Alliance player with spying on the Horde, want this?
Why would anyone within the Alliance want Darkfallen/Dark Rangers anywhere near Stormwind or any other Alliance establishment?
Ah you see, the factions are always looking for ways to strengthen themse-
Against what? What’s the current world ending threat that makes the Alliance so desperate as to invite Kaldorei and Void Elf Dark Rangers?
What have they even done to be accepted? Death Knights and Demon Hunters were given the A-OK because the acting king declared it so after they showed up with a letter of recommendation from Fordring or saved Anduin from Legion assassins. What did Dark Rangers do?
Do not get me wrong, I do not mind the additional customization options. It’s once more the implementation that’s moronic, seeing as how we even got an entire questline to unlock them but none of the nuance or world building that could even support this.
Hence I don’t mind any Alliance player treating these fresh vampyr, San’layn, Darkfallen, Dark Ranger so badly that they’d rather lynch and murder them. Where does this weird assumption come from that every guard becomes a pre-programmed droid accepting any of these developments instead of turning a blind eye? Why try and claim what’s right or wrong for a biased or prejudiced character to think and do?
“Seeking” not “hey! Weve already been pardoned, lets go take a nice sunset stroll through cathedral square!”
I wish Blizz would just do one thing properly and not just half a** everything they do. It would have been so eaay for them to implement one extra dialogue/cut scene with Calia writing to Turalyon and asking him to pardon the nelf dark rangers. I mean it still doesnt make any lore sense as to why a dark ranger would be near the cathedral and why any worgen would defend a Forsaken. But at least they would no longer be kill on sight and could start making a tentative return.
Precisely. Because doing and wanting are not the same thing. It is indicative, yes, but it hasn’t happened. Not yet. I am all for it, but Blizzard needs to put it in game. Tyrande is still in Ardenweald have chats with her girls. This leaves us in the same spot as far as dark rangers rejoining the Alliance goes. It hasn’t happened. Yet.
I am not even sure where that comes from. We have the original, High Elf ones and the raised Kaldorei. I think void elves are meant to be just high elves, but it still makes so little sense for them to drop the Forsaken after all this time.
No.
Not as far as RP is concerned, at least. Lore is pretty much the social contract that makes RP with different people feasible, it provides a common background for us to RP in. Breaking it breaks that social contract and people will just end up ignoring each other. At that point you might just go play Skyrim.
OOC’ly I’ll welcome it gladly and happy they’ve finally sorted it out. IC’ly Valdarth will distrust them until IC interaction may or may not change his mind, as void elves did during and after the Fourth War.
It wasn’t. Velonara tells you some may want to return home, to their people. It didn’t happen yet. And she wonders if they’d even be accepted.
Why would you do something so cruel to yourself ?
At the end of the day I believe we can all agree that the issue here is one of implementation. If Blizzard would do it right and actually provide us with in game lore and reasons for it no one would mind the presence of darkfallen in Stormwind and this debate wouldn’t take place. Yet the situation is very different because Blizzard:
Until they sort that out, if they ever do it, there’s not really much to do and it’s all a matter of opinion for different roleplayers and guilds on how to approach this issue. This is more complicated for guard roleplayers since they’ll be called in to deal with every stupid thing going on in Stormwind and neither side will be truly happy. People who want to kill the dark rangers will call the guards traitors if they protect them, people defending dark rangers will call them zealots if they banish them. Dark Rangers will complain if they are ignored or treated like having a mental disorder and believing they are dark rangers.
I know, i have always been a bit if an idealist, but even i am getting to the point that I have to accept Blizzard are never gonna do anything properly. They throw stuff at us to try to appease the huge s**t show that was Shadowlands, but even then can’t do it properly. I think at this stage they need to just overhaul the whole useful as a glass hammer team.
Re void elves, hard agree. Even if i rp ren’dorei.
Ask blizz, they seem to have forgotten. All velves get is helf customization, and they haven’t really done anything of note other than raise some dinosaurs.
I’d question as to why that’d want to go stand in the Cathedral.
If they’re part of the Alliance in lore. Ok. But, I’d argue they should be fully aware of how uneasy people are around them considering the Alliance and Horde were fighting not too long ago.
If it was me, I’d try to hide the fact I’m an undead whilst in Stormwind.
Laying low seems like a no-brainer if you’re undead and in Alliance lands. Void Elves aren’t anything quite so reviled, and even they tend to canonically stick to the shadows (pun intended) around their allies.
