I usually do delves with my gf when no-one wants to run keys in the guild.
Are you saying we should be denied loot just because I enjoy playing games with my gf?
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I actually agree with the OP and it’s because of this:
I’m afraid that Blizzard is simply making it too hard on themselves to balance Delves between group and solo play, whilst also balancing it for solo between different classes and balancing delves overal compared to other endgame options. I just think that it’s going to break things (like what happened at the start of this season) and that’s going to let other types of players try and claim delves for their own gain.
This can lead to changes to delves that make them worse for the people that delves were actually created for in the first place.
So it’s not a direct effect, but a series of things it could lead to because Blizzard is making it extra hard on themselves. And I really don’t want to suffer yet again due to the complaints of high end players - that’s happened far too often in the last several years.
Now; what I described might not happen. Maybe Blizzard is able to properly balance all these things, but having seen Blizzard’s past, I’m not very confident in that, if I’m honest.
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The problem with allowing any content to exclude groups is it disagrees with the entire purpose of WoW as a multiplayer game.
If I want to play a game with my gf, or a friend, I should not be punished for doing so, in a game that is supposed to promote playing in groups.
I’m reminded of islands, and torghast, both which worked as solo and group experiences.
As far back as vanilla, being in a group has made life easier, and the reason for this was to encourage group play, even in the open world. At that time, classes had deliberate weaknesses that found strength when mixing with players who had classes that countered those weaknesses.
At this point I would rather have delves removed, than exclude group play, as creating content that excludes groups is the antithesis of the game, and goes directly against it’s mission.
This problem is best resolved with actually hiring enough people to do quality QA.
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I agree with your concerns, but they have managed in the past with stuff like visions and torghast (i know ppl hated torghast but i loved it, both solo and as flexible grp size, same with visions).
Major «problem» with delves now is that they reward better gear then doing m+ and raids, and thats why the high end players gravitate towards that for now. When ppl will be able to do higher m+ they will stop doing delves cause they gain nothing more from doing them then.
I dont know what the fix for that problem would be though, cause i’ve always advocated for progress path for solo/open world players. Maybe they should have made special gear that gave better bonuses for delves/open world instead of what we have now? For me it feels «wrong» that my best pieces of gear i have is from doing delves and getting tier in the vault for it.
I’m more concerned with the lack of agency over the loot in delves. It’s like playing a lottery. Too big a pool,too few draws. Something needs adjusting. I don’t run delves at all cause of it. The work to get a key plus run the delve only to get a pull of 1 out of a pool of what? 40-50 items? It’s a complete waste of time. It’s only good for the extra vault slot.
Not to mention all the “trap” items.
In the past they had a much larger testing and QA team, Torghast is arguably harder to balance than delves, given the generative element, as well as the large number of powers.
I got a 606 item from a delve, was thrilled to get my first item over 600, until I learned it was worse me for than a 573 trinket I had from a random heroic.
And I have a huge problem with such a statement.
Because that kind of thing has been happening to ‘people like me’ for years now in WoW. Suffering because of the opinions of otherminded players.
This is the first time in 20 years that we’ve been given solo endgame progression content. The only one of its kind in a sea of multiplayer options.
At this point, I think ‘we’ have earned the right to have this for ourselves. Just this one thing. All the other endgame options are yours.
That’s how I feel about it.
I don’t think they did. I absolutely hated both those things.
To me that’s not an issue. Because players like me will play the content they like. Not because they feel compelled/forced to do so.
If delves are nerfed because of such complaints, I am done with WoW.
Because it would just prove that we’re still not past listening exclusively to the high endgame people at the expense of everyone else and I’m completely and utterly sick of it. It’s been going on for far too long. Enough is enough.
I’ve adovcated for specialized gear for each of the endgame pillars for a long time.
It would solve so many issues. Yes, it would add new issues, but I believe it would solve more problems than it would cause - if implemented right.
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People enjoy the world of warcraft… but hate the other players… not hard to understand is it?
Because there is already group content?
There’s also already content you can do solo? What’s the point?
What is so wrong with having fun in a delve with a friend or 2?
I appreciate the statement might of been strong, and I have no desire to cause any sort of upset or irritation, but the reason that solo play has been largely an after thought in wow, is because ever since vanilla, as I mentioned in other parts of my post, the game was designed to be better when played in a group.
This is in no way prohibits solo play, but to include content that excludes groups, would be an antithesis to the game’s mission.
Agree or Disagree, Blizzard decided 20 years ago that this game will be better in groups, the class design encourages group play, and the content provided encourages group play.
I’m happy solo players feel welcome in a game so heavily slanted toward group play, but group play is by design, and as such groups should be welcome in all content without penalty.
Earlier in the thread I explained my position that I like to play content outside of m+ with my gf, why should I deny myself the chance to enjoy scaled content with someone who is important to me?
i know, im the same, i wont do stuff i dont like just because it gives me rewards. I dont do delves for the rewards, i mostly do them as a solo challenge for myself. I’ve gotten up to 9 now, will be a while before i try 10 because 9 was plenty hard for me as healer. But u and me both know that ALOT of players will force themselves if there’s a carrot for them. And right now (unless you’re like the top players), delves give better loot then doing m+. So the ppl that normally will do m+ will do delves and come to the forum to whine about it.
And complain about only getting cloaks from delves 
I am pretty sure in a week or 2 M+ players have their 4 set and do not care anymore about delves-loot.
This entire game is based around content in groups, so it’s no surprise that in a multiplayer by design game, content is designed so that I can bring friends.
If this wasn’t the case, classes wouldn’t be designed to rely on other classes in order to cover their weaknesses.
Well no. That’s your opinion.
I strongly disagree.
I’m enjoying my time in WoW much more since I’ve started to play it mostly solo.
I don’t shy away from all group play of course, but my overal gaming experience is so much better than it used to be, when I was dependant on others to do and/or finish stuff I wanted to do.
In most cases I agree.
But not in the one endgame system that was designed especially to provide solo players with endgame progression. I think it’s very greedy to claim this too after you’ve already been given so much.
It’s like having a vegetarian restaurant in a city with loads of other restaurants and then wanting that vegetarian restaurant to serve meat as well. It’s just not okay, imo.
I’m not saying ‘remove the group option altogether’, I’m saying: Remove the group option from the progression part. You can still play it, but you won’t earn xp for Brann, no track advancement, no vault inclusion.
Those things would fix it so that Blizzard can completely focus on having the most balanced solo experience they can provide without being bogged down by having to make sure the group version is also equal to that.
Yeah and I’m saying: Ignore them please, Blizzard.
So you would rather I sit in discord with my gf, and we speak to each other, yet be running entirely different content, so I can progress the vault part of my delve, I’m sorry that just seems at odds with well, what the game is about.
I agree with you Brann has no purpose and should probably sit at the start in a group (after all his purpose is to provide what is missing when solo), but all other restrictions seem petty, given a lot of people who play delves, aren’t hardcore pushing keys, or raids, but do have friends or family they want to play the game with.
I thought you did M+? You don’t need the ‘vault part of your delve’.
Those restrictions are to keep the people out who abuse it and then come and complain that ‘their content is now obsolete’. They’re SO focussed on getting the ‘easiest/fastest gear that they can’ that they completely ruin their own experience in M+ or raiding.
Those people are to blame. Those people are the people who have been making sure that every time there’s something I enjoy in WoW, it gets changed or taken away.
If what I want were to happen, you are a type of player who becomes a victim of it, yes.
I know how that feels, unfortunately.
If eat in a restaurant that serves meat, that restaurant is required by law to offer a vegetarian option, so why shouldn’t the vegetarian restaurant offer a meat option? Being inclusive is a 2 way street that allows everyone to be included, whatever is happening.
I do do m+, however from time to time I play with just me and my gf, we don’t pug, as we don’t like it, so no-one from the guild wants to m+ we run delves.
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Well, then it was a bad example.
Blizzard is not required by law to provide a multiplayer option.
Right. So you don’t need the delve vault. Just play with each other and have fun.
You could still get regular loot from the chests.
No they shouldn’t. They should be for both single or grouped, so the content is available for everyone, regardless of their playstyle