Indeed. For anything apart from Mythic raiding or very high keys, you can pretty much play whatever and it does not matter.
2 Likes
This is nothing new with expansions and have been even more so the case over the years. Ppl that played the earlier expansion to the end and have decent to BiS gear activly get weaker for every lvl they gain. The stats the gear gives decrease in value for every lvl you get, sets stops working at the halfway point so id guess at lvl 65, same with legendaries and borrowed power (those might stop working from the get go tho).
All of the above had nothing to do with talent trees and has been an repeated issue for well over a decade.
But thats the point, did i miss something here? Thats the whole point of having talent trees, so they did exactly what was asked for by those that wanted this back.
I hardly play in grps with my main. I dont enjoy grp content due to the “you must have this talent and this pet or you’re useless” attitude so I just do solo content and it works fine. I love barrage and it´s immensely useful to my solo play 
I am not happy with the talents trees but I played a hunter main since classic opening and they butchered, buffed, nerfed and started all over again for my class and I never left it as my main. And I prob never will… not happy about the trees though but it´s their game not mine and I doubt they listen to feedbacks
Yeah, in regard to your gear, but not to your actively clicked abilities.
For specialisation inside of your spec maybe, but not just to gain now baseline (utility) abilities back. Well, I never asked for trees, so…
Talent trees have always had cookie cutter builds as long as I can remember.
The difference is these new trees will give those who like to do their own thing that choice back again. Just like they did in the past.
I’m personally not excited by the idea of having the trees back but it is going to get rid of borrowed power.
1 Like
Hmm You sure about that? Artifact weapons for example, Rets got a lesser version of Wake of Ash it at a higher lvl. So during prepatch we couldnt use it anymore and had to get some lvls to use it in BFA. In BFA rets could get azerite power to make Wings more powerfull and practicaly became baseline, now a talent in SL, Divine storm back in Legion could shoot out an tornado thingy, now a legendary.
Borrowed power gets taken away to either mend in to talents or reused again for another borrowed power system. This is exactly the same, only i really hope they build uppon it rather then to let it rot with age.
Same as ppl didnt ask for talent trees to be removed in the first place.
This seems to be the general view of most people. My work colleague plays BDK and BM Hunter and he is less than impressed by it.
Myself, i generally use the cookie cutter builds as im too lazy to do otherwise. It might be a good system, it might not be- guess we will have to wait and see
1 Like
They are releasing the trees so slowly as well.
It reminds me of when there was Torghast testing on beta and Paladin was one of the last to get theirs 
1 Like
There won’t be a build, that is meta for everything though with the way the talents are designed. Most choices are gonna be based on preference, and situational. Only some few talents will be a must probably
It seems that you can get all of those talents anyway. My point was that if people don’t notice subpar talent choices now when it’s objectively easier to know which talents are bad, then they won’t notice with DF either, as long as you have the “required” utility your class is supposed to have. For Hunters that’s Misdirect, Tranq Shot, Tar Trap and to a slightly lesser degree Binding Shot.
Although I do wonder why you wouldn’t create a “dungeon” set of talents and just swap when you do groups and go back to the solo talents when you’re done… They already said it’s going to be easy and convenient to swap between talent sets, so it’d be the most obvious choice to have different talent loadouts for, say, solo play, raids, Tyrannical or Fortified weeks, etc.
1 Like
Yet that’s exactly what happened in every expansion with borrowed power in an extreme way and in every expansion, period, because of newer, higher ilvl gear being the new norm.
They’re not gone. You can still get them. But now it’s a choice.
These trees are made to be seen in the context of leveling up a character; as you level up, you build your character until you reach max level and you no longer receive talent points and your build is then done.
We view it differently, because we already have characters that are going to have a lot of points right from the get-go. But we SHOULDN’T view it differently.
So just because you think they’re mandatory, they should just be given to everyone? Because? Your meta means nothing to me, for example. If you think you need a talent, put a point into it; simple.
Okay, well I disagree with that.
And it bugs me that people can be so entitled to think that they deserve to get EVERY SINGLE TALENT there is. It bugs me very much. Making a choice is what makes the outcome of that choice matter: You can’t have everything. And expecting to have everything is WRONG imo. It’s very entitled and very greedy.
This seems to be a habit of theirs doesnt it?
1 Like
I honestly don’t care for min maxing, I will be building my talents the way I want.
2 Likes
I play BM, that should say all there is to say about how much I care about min-maxing 
However I’ve had no issues getting into high keys and raid content so far, Meta specs are still only as good as person behind the keyboard, and in many cases they have chosen the spec because it’s FOTM and they’d of been performing better on something they actually like to play.
What does this have to do with the topic? Simply that short of inspecting everyone’s talents before inviting them to a run, talent choices will have no impact on a person’s ability to apply for groups. They might not be the group favourite if they’ve forgotten to spec into a kick though.
Not it’s not because we already have them now! Look at hunter… you can now have counter shot, binding shot, camouflage, scare beast, misdirect, tar trap, tranqu. shot all at once - they are baseline or talents you can pick at the same time… with DF you’ll lose some of that utility (on max level!), because you don’t have enough point to get them all.
It does matter when the clean slate is functional downgrade compared to what we have now.
Especially in cases like having to talent into an interrupt. That is just pure nonsense.
Keyholder building a group that can’t do the content is even more troll thing.
It’s the keyholder’s responsibility to get everything he needs for his run.
If it’s the keyholder’s opinion that Warrior, DK, Druid (feral), Monk (heal) and Rogue are a good combination for Sang-affix then ok…his call. It will either work or he will gain experience in the skill of “keyholding”.
If he thinks that all hunters are melees, he needs to learn “keyholding”.
If he thinks that all hunters have BL, he needs to learn “keyholding”.
If he thinks that all hunters are rangers, he needs to learn “keyholding”.
And now towards DF:
If he thinks that a group with 0 interrupts is enough for So’azmi, it will either work or he will gain experience in the skill of “keyholding”.
The whole Min-Max ultra optimised mentality has been in game forever (even if it only applied to Raiding in Vanilla).
No matter what the system is this mentality will be there. This is not a problem that Talent Trees are trying to fix. Talent Trees are supposed to fix problems arount powers being borrowed temporarily. Powers being locked behind esoteric and random acquisition. Powers being layered upon other powers in overly convoluted ways making it impossible to understand your class without reading several guides.
As for the Min-Maxing mentality we have some mitigation with the new system, particularly the ability to save Talent Builds and to swap between these easily. So we will have a chance to have quirky builds to play with for fun but also have the M+ BIS Talent Build to swap into when doing some keys or a PVP BIS Talent Build to swap to when wanting to do some BGs. Out questing we can our own Fun Talent Build saved.
We won’t have just one build anymore, so this being locked to a single covenant nonsense is gone.
This will apply to any iteration of talents. The only way to avoid the toxic side of society is to essentially only play with friends/guildies. And if the guild is toxic, not for you. For casuals though, we have a lot more freedom in playing what is fun v what is “optimal”. It isn’t something Blizzard can fix.
1 Like
Personally prefer the trees anyway. Let people copy builds, that does not concern me. The choice is there and having it is always good. My class’ tree isn’t out yet but I’m sure it’ll let me customize my character enough to fit my playstyle and with that I’ll simply just play better than I would if I copy a build