Yes, and if I do recall correctly the quote was “You get showered in purples from everywhere”, the context here is that WQ’s are over rewarding, which on itself is not a bad thing, but when you have them invalidate Normal and Heroic (due to assault rewards) raiding and sometimes Mythic thanks to TF/WF, you get this argument. And i will be the first to admit, players do not communicate well what they mean, but isn’t it the devs jobs to understand the problem and where it comes from ?
Ill just take your word on this for now, but I’m skeptical.
Oh really now ?
What if open world content, pve and pvp had separate power proggresions. Lets say the BfA’s HoA only worked in the open world, raiders had tier sets and pvp-ers had PvP stats ? Would you really have cared what other people not doing your content have ?
Yes, this is the time/effort vs reward fallacy, but if the gear or power progressions were seperate from one another would a Raider having his 210 ilvl gear that works specificaly for raiding and/or M+ be jelous of a casual world quester for his 400 ilvl gear that provides bonuses only for the open world ?
well heres the thing none of these systems were fundamentally bad, they all appeased a playerbase and they all held both pros and cons
even WF/TF it effectively increased the longevity of content. it made every part of the game worth doing.
the problem is where the majority opinon and minority opinon lay. thats what realistically matters the issue is blizzard arent even sure where this is it seems lol.
as i say, as someone who ignores Lore and more… i cant vouch for the success of the idea… all i know is apprantly its no longer suspose to be Repeats of quests u already did levellnig and rubbish like it was prior xD
given most of the playerbase are unable to see past a ilevel score… i could bet a dollar u could introduce armour unusable in Raids and they’d still QQ
dont get me wrong its a valid point… the introduction of 3 Seperate systems works really well.
issue is blizzard want this game to be cohesive, so all able to lead into one another and in that world there has to be winner and losers
not saying their opinon is correct or the direction is correct… but thats what they’re pushing for.
You know… Last night was an eye opener.
If I start approaching stuff with a more open mind, chances are, I’ll get a more pleasant reaction and that’s more fun for everyone involved (except the odd troll who just wants to antagonize people).
So yeah. Genuinely: Thanks!
That doesn’t mean I’m suddenly going to like mythic content! Don’t worry!
Yes but the pros for some were impacting negatively others. The simplest example would be loot trading due the ilvl restrictions. Which could have easily avoided, just don’t have that restriction.
And again, ilvl and gear were simple examples to explain the concept, ignore all of bfa and just look at essences, now imagine they only worked in the open world like WoD’s zone abilities, would a raider/dungeoneer care if “casuals” had that and they didn’t ?
But that’s the problem they are creating themselves, its no longer what the players want its what blizzard wants. Which is making this a full circle, players wanted their gear to be reasonably obtainable with no RNG upgrades, Blizzards decided to nerf loot, another more diplomatic way would have been to cap forging to 10 ilvl max, and if a piece didn’t WF you could upgrade i 2 times 5 lvl each (the MoP approach), also this worked for the sockets why shouldn’t it work for this. Ofc the currency should come from the respective sources and should be abjusted but these are details.
Same really for covenats, a large and vocal part of the community never wanted them, yet blizzard decided that everyone should have a “meaningful choice”, not considering that “meaningful” is subjective and choice is easily removed. For someone the shoe mog their character is wearing could be considered meaningful, for the talents i choose to pick from fight to fight, dungeon to dungeon are a meaningful choice. Making me choose between power and aesthetic is not (for me).
Most of us adults, its not for Blizzard to decide how we enjoy the game, its their job to make the product appease its masses and most of all not invalidate one community over the other because of “the vision”. This has worked for this long because the WoW community has this nasty habit of blaming itself for Blizzards incompatance, “oh its the casuals that ruined raiding” , “oh its the elitists that the RPG element” , “Oh its the PvE-ers that ruined PvP”, nope mates, it was Blizzard and their “visions” that did that.
Ummmm I’d take this with more nuance. “No smoke without fire” is the mantra of false accusers and rumourmongers and is imo a principle beat taken critically.
You need to look at what people are actually complaining about, not that fact they’re complaining. If 50% of guests in my restaurant complain the plates are green and not blue, it doesn’t meant I need to change the menu.
Now this is where the forums come unstuck, because whilst you do get people whom take the time to phrase their issues clearly and with an indication of what they think may resolve things, the vast majority do not, and simply generalise and present issues as soundbyte complaints and vague posting. This contributes to the reputation of the forums as being a trash source of feedback, which blizzard is only too aware of. The question is then would you sift through a pile of crap because someone told you you may find a gem in there? Or would you rather sift through data metrics that give a more direct interpretation of player actions?
This is why people need to take seriously when people say “if you don’t like it, unsub” because Ultimately blizzard don’t look for forum posts from people subbed and not having fun, they look at sub metrics because they (rather logically) assume if a player no longer enjoys their game, they’ll probably unsub. You don’t send the correct message if you remain subbed so you can post messages on the forums to communicate your anger. It sends mixed messages.
Oh yeah, of course.
But that’s just it; there’s loads of complaints about the same few things.
Well, we can’t answer that.
But wouldn’t a combination of ‘complaints gathering’ and ‘metrics’ be the most reliable? Best of both worlds, so to speak.
I do have my doubts about how much of the EU forums actually makes it to the devs. I think it’s a very, very low percentage.
It’s all good. I’ve unsubbed already.
Just hanging around until I can’t anymore.
No clue when I’ll re-sub. Depends on Blizzard and what they’re doing with SL, but I don’t want to pay for ‘more of the same as the last 3-4 months’.
But this is a failing of their communication system, the “reasons why you unsubbed” survey they sometimes give is often not helpful (i cannot express my issues clear enough in it), so they send you to the forums. Couldn’t they maybe make a feedback section only available for the people directed by the survey ?
Also if a big enough groups is openly vocal about the same thing on multiple platforms, sometimes for years (TF/WF) isn’t it obvious ? Speaking of that issue, It was really baffling to hear Ion say “now we have learned that…”, like seriously it took you years of people screaming and shouting at you to learn that they don’t like X?
I don’t disagree the feedback form for unsub isn’t good, but even if it were, people could still fill it out wrong. This is the issue with qualitative data, it relies heavily on the assumption the user is a good feedback generator.
At the very least the fact of unsubbing can be correlated with major patch themes to raise questions over issues. E.g if 50% if your players unsub during a loot drought, it would be reasonable to assume that may be why. If several players remain subbed but complain about it, blizz may take the somewhat reasonable view of “they’re still subbed though”. Basically threats of withdrawal mean nothing if they’re not backed up by action. Like a parent with a child whom never makes good on the punishment they promise for misbehaving, the child will simply keep pushing them further to see how much they can get away with.
I’m under no illusions SL is perfect, this char will be my first m+ focus char as I want to experience the loot situation firsthand now I’ve samples PvP on others. At current not enough dissuades me, but we’ll see. But what I know is during BFA mid season which I hated, I simply unsubbed because for me that was more sensible than sending blizz the message in okay enough with what they’re doing (and also paying for something I don’t enjoy is a waste of money, some people may be okay with placing their money on a hope of change despite current dissatisfaction, I however am not)
Why should he? 95% of the “feedback” in the forums pure complaints whining with nothing constructive or suggestive on how to improve the bad aspects of the expansion.
Hawkh
