Rogue mains would’ve told you it is mages that need to be nerfed, though… maybe they should nerf the crazy synergy between the two in some way instead?
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I suggested this a few weeks ago, but now I think about it i’m not sure its possible unless they completely redesign both classes. As you probably know the synergy comes from the Rouge enabling the Mage to CC etc against things that would otherwise shut it down and the Mage keeps the Rouge alive with its peels against comps that would otherwise shut a Rouge down or kill it, So they both compensate for each others weaknesses. Only way to break the synergy would be either stop the Rouge from enabling a Mage via stuns etc or remove the Mages ability to peel for the Rouge. Both would destroy how each class works since stuns and poly are at the core off all Rouge & Mage specs. I hope this makes sense.
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sub actually does have MS. it’s just largely irrelevant due to the way the spec’s comps play with sub’s nonexistant sustained damage, to the point where loads of people don’t even know it exists.
i think giving frost deep or something similar would be way more beneficial for assa RM than sub RM because the main problem assa has is covering the mage with cross, which sub can do way more effectively. would probably help with stuff like monk or warrior though if you can land cc on your own.
and yeah, i don’t think you can possibly break RM synergy. as long as rogue has stuns, mage has sheep and both classes like to do burst, they’re going to work well together.
as someone who doesn’t play mage much anymore (rip), but does play with one in pvp, my main concern is making frost good with sub again. i prefer playing with it compared to fire. frost not having burst is by far the biggest problem from my pov. spec seems to have 1000 different ways of bursting nowadays, and as a result they all kinda suck. no big shatter burst, no big ebon burst, no big orb.
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Yeah, you’re right… I completely forgot it existed! isn’t it 15% MS or something?
I agree Frost with sub is a lot better than the current Assa Fire iteration of RMX. But since they removed Deep Freeze and Frosts “burst” is largely AoE based its very easy to abuse it by standing on a poly’d healer before the Kidney lands. Frosts biggest problem at the moment is its very reliant on the Rouge and healer to help it get CC, if you’ve never played a Frost Mage with a Rouge that just does PvE dmg and kidneys off CD you’ll know its a very painful experience as a Mage because you’re a punch bag waiting to lose vs decent players. Gelu described Frost quite well on his stream as it “you feel like a passenger, you can’t really do anything on your own” when you play Frost. I really would LOVE to see Deep Freeze put back in but I don’t think its going to happen tbh. Maybe they can add it in the mobility row in Frosts talent tree so you are forced to swap between shimmer and blink based on the comp, Deep would be very good vs Rdruids, Rsham etc, and Shimmer would be very good vs Hpallys for example.
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Yea, I do believe that a lot of the mage nerfs and CC pruning was at the expense of rogues, due to their CC is more fitting to their class fantasy or something, so it made sense for blizz to nerf mage over rogue.
But they just went too far, mage just feels uncappble of solo killing anyone with high self healing, due to lack of main target shutdown.
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yep, 15% MS attached to nightblade.
oh yeah, for sure. you do feel like you’re babysitting your mage, at least whenever we tried playing frost. you can get away with it with sub though, but frost’s damage pacing makes it weak for that kinda comp anyway because it’s not explosive enough to actually land the kill.
the aoe thing is for sure part of it, i have a similar problem with these stupid trinkets. i remember when a mage would land ebons in legion, absolutely massive damage. in mirrors we’d often just trade block if an ebon went off. orb was ridiculous as well. now it’s like you have ray of frost, comet storm, ice nova, orb, ebon, but none of them are any good. frost has become a defensive pressure spec. that’s what it seems like to me anyway.
putting it next to shimmer is an interesting idea actually.
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Its normally build 5 icicles, land a Poly then Kidney, Orb, comet storm, ice nova and then icelance to send icicles, or Flurry ice lance if you have the proc up. Yeah it favours longer drawn out games unfortunately, its not a bad spec currently, but is heavily over shadowed by Fire and the high burst/dmg meta. I wish Ebonbolt was good, you don’t play it these days, you play Frozen Touch to gain a 30% increased chance for Flurry procs.
Yeah, I think it would give an interesting choice, you can either get a guaranteed sheep on hard to catch healers and be less mobile, or you can be more mobile and cast blink sheeps. Tbh though, even putting it there might not be enough to edge out Shimmer since at higher levels of arena the Rouges can Vanish/Meld cheap shot to setup polys for you. I’d personally prefer to have the ability to do it myself since a lot of Rouges currently play like Warriors and have never learnt when its good for them to Vanish cheap to setup up a Mage since they can just PvE and win in certain comps. Vs comps like DH/DK/Rsham for example having to heavily depend on a Rouge & healer to set me up is horrible, if they can’t or don’t do it than you’re waiting to lose unless they make a big mistake and I manage to catch them in a poly on it.
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hahaha christ i can’t imagine playing frost assa into dh/dk/rsham. that sounds like the worst thing ever for the mage. stuff like that’s actually a big part of the reason i don’t play mage much anymore. you get put into these impossible situations where you can’t do anything and it’s just annoying.
i actually love ebon. it is a casted shatter combo that does huge burst, it’s everything i loved about frost mage damage. i will probably never like anything as much as i liked early mop frost bomb though.
i don’t think you’d ever play deep over shimmer with a sub rogue, but for basically any other partner i think it could absolutely be worth trying out at least. it’s for sure cool to have the option to be more independent, even if it were to not be optimal.
assa rogue being meta is so boring it’s unreal. i get to have some guy putting me or my mage on /follow as we rp-walk around and sometimes he presses kidney. woo.
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Yep, its not ideal… nah sub can solo setup easily for a Mage, but yeah with Assa it would be very valuable.
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i tried frost on beta feels so bad so boring so usless i love it when i press frozen orb and people run away feels good 
i think i will just UNSUB nothing changed still trash game
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