It was too late for Keeshan, and that didn’t stop the writers from putting him into the Alliance war campaign. It is never too late for a bad idea.
And I do believe that this thread is just bait for you, which you gleefully swallowed… but I also believe your thread wasn’t more than bait, either, so I don’t think you have a leg to stand on here. And since it is just about what we subjectively see as something too ridiculous to say earnestly… you don’t have an argument to justify “derailing” this thread.
As does mine. You can find an in-universe source for everything I’ve said about Gamon here.
… because there are no sources to suggest what Dumass’ intentions are or what Hogger’s role in 8.1 will be. Fact still is, Gamon’s meteoric rise from two-bit hoodlum to Hero of Orgrimmar is an established part of Warcraft canon. The fact you’re uncomfortable with it is neither here nor there.
It was too late for Keeshan, and that didn’t stop the writers from putting him into the Alliance war campaign.
In fact, Keeshan’s involvement in Battle for Azeroth is the ultimate source of the infamous “Human Potential” meme. That goes to show what happens when you let gag characters have roles that they don’t deserve.
It is never too late for a bad idea.
Yes, and you will agree with me that Battle for Azeroth doesn’t need even worse ideas right now.
but I also believe your thread wasn’t more than bait, either,
My thread wasn’t a bait at all, not unless providing a detailed lists of deeds of Anduin is now considered trolling, which it isn’t.
Even before MoP, back when he was a lowly drunken street thug, Gamon possessed skills no other Warrior could boast.
(Would you mind providing a serious source for that?)
Moreover, Gamon was the first Horde citizen to realise the danger Garrosh posed to the integrity of the faction. When everyone else was sucking up to the Warchief, or going about their business unawares, Gamon took a stand - and in order to help him defeat the mighty Orc, Gamon trained hard, under his own direction, to gain the strength he knew he’d need to put an end to Garrosh’s mad schemes.
The fact he did all this to help save the faction that had spurned him for years as a no-good drunken scumbag displays his great magnanimity.
I already mentioned that I think the Warcraft story is closer to the “so bad it’s good” mark than to the “good” mark, so… I’m actually not sure I agree on this one! Anyway, I do believe people are free to share their bad ideas.
I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt. I would have to call it trolling, stupid, or deranged. I don’t think you are stupid. So… trolling is left as the most flattering option.
I just came here as the representative of my organization to pay my respects to Gamon the magnificent. If it weren’t for Greymane, we would follow him gladly.
But on more serious note - I am really glad that pandaren and Pandaria were treated seriously and for MoP expansion which is imo the best expansion to date.
I really like pandaren as a race and their story was really well made. If that is the fate of “joke characters” then bring it on Blizzard. Because now it feels that the major “serious” lore characters are acting as running joke.
I’ll have to side with Arctur here, as I usually do since he is very often right.
As to why Gamon is not a genius: the whole argument stands upon a dictionary-definition of ‘genius’. Obviously, the word refers not solely to someone who is very talented in something, but specifically to someone who is talented in an intellectual activity, or at least a techne that is linked to the mind (including a natural inclination to be a great musician/painter/etc.). Before you start analysing the definition of ‘genius’ given by the Cambridge Dictionary, rest assured that doing so is very fallacious (appeal to definition/dictionary), since the whole concept of the word is not determined by a dictionary, but by the daily usage of the word.
Apart from the fact that the definition of the word is not applicable to Gamon, I should also mention that this is a very tasteless attempt at trolling. We all know that the initial discussion was about a poorly constructed reductio ad absurdum derived from the dictionary’s definition of a genius, and since someone who uses such an argument very often doesn’t believe in the conclusion anyway (that’s the whole point of a RAA), there’s no need to actually try to claim it.
Nathanos is an inferior sub-Tauren unworthy of rememberance. It’s clear that Gamon’s rightful place is at the head of Thunder Bluff, hence an honourable duel between Gamon, a proven Hero of Orgrimmar, and Baine, the ineffectual and unpopular son of Cairne, is the right way to go. That way Gamon can defeat Baine using the Pride Breaker, Gamon’s unique signature move, and take his place as leader of the Tauren.
I would like to point out that Gamon was a well known and respected member of World of Warcraft way before Anduin even made a impact on Warcraft.
So why is he a meme-character? He’s been around doing (serious) stuff way before Anduin. He was more known way before Anduin. If anything, compared to Gamon and some other characters, Anduin is a meme-character who appeared out of nowhere to instantly get a place of importance handed to him because of what exactly?
No, I respect and like characters akin to Mankrik and Gamon more then Anduin, because they never started as meme-characters, people just made them into such.
Gamon was never intended to be comic relief - he was originally part of the low-level questline for Horde Rogues who wanted to join the Orgrimmar rogue faction. Don’t get me wrong, this is hardly the most auspicious of beginnings, but it just makes his rise to become Hero of Orgrimmar all the more impressive.
I’m using the definition of “genius” that Arctur gave me in the other thread, so your initial assumption invalidates much of your response.
That’s not the definition we agreed upon, but it’s worth drilling into because your definition of “genius” doesn’t admit Anduin or Gamon. Neither of them are artists, painters, scholars, or intellectuals of any stripe. They are, however, both exceptionally skilled individuals whose talents have won them the respect and recognition of esteemed individuals and the common citizenry, as well as the OOU fanbase.
Except that I was attacking your position which is built on the same definition, so it invalidates nothing.
What would you suggest?
Look, I am willing to argue that Anduin is a genius, and I think I can, but to be quite honest I think that the subject has already been discussed enough and I don’t think it serves a point to discuss it any further. But if you have no problems with that, we can give it a go.
For now, I’ll just say that it appears to me that Anduin might be a genius, but I won’t claim he is. However, Gamon is certainly not a genius, but I’ll call him a hero. Instead of being intellectually gifted, we can describe as someone:
You came in under the assumption that I was using a dictionary definition of “genius” and made many criticisms based upon this assumption. These criticism are invalidated because your assumption is incorrect, in particular the idea that my post is a reduction ad absurdum based upon the dictionary definition of “genius”.
By Arctur’s definition, Gamon is a genius. He displays unique skills in the area of physical combat and great foresight in resisting the rule of Garrosh. He is a genius.
The definition we’ve been using for 100+ replies between the two threads.
Nobody’s disputing that. The fact Gamon is a genius and a hero does not detract from Anduin in any way.
However, if we substitute the definition of “genius” for one that requires scholarship, intellectual acuity and artistic vision then neither of them qualify.
Actually, you are right, you were using a different definition (ironically also one that no one agreed upon):
Not this one. But, if not an argument against Arctur’s definition, what point does this post serve? Do you really want to argue that Gamon is a genius?
You made a new thread, and if you want to cite arguments or definitions from another thread, then you should do so.