Gear scale in open world

Community General Discussion
21

i think it did more damage then u think

by murdering the incentives of doing End game systems such as Fractals and Raids. Players looking for the content left, which ment even those who still wanted to do these systems the game modes were so dead they struggled to get into the content. due to this left themselves.

When ur player engagement with end game systems is so low, because the rewards so irrelevant no ones going to do it, you by Nature are cuaisng many many customers to simply never play ur game.

u ignore the fact,. this game is steadying its ilevel growth through

Open world, Normal, Heroic, Mythic Dungeons, a M+ System LFR, Normal, Heroic and Mythic raiding, im sorry but this is the general build up that is caused by the fact this game has so much optino within the difficulty u set

your going to cuase huge issues spreading 20 ilevel across like 9 Different game modes… the game would need to heavily shrink in its Difficulty options to achieve this.

I.E

Delete Mythic and LFR Raiding.

Delete Heroic Dungeons.

Delete Mythic Dungeons

and Start M+ Difficulty from +0 effectively.

FFXIV Quite Litterally has Like 3 Difficulties in it.

and i assure u, that’d cause a HIGHER Pop drop then letting those who want a GW2 System go. thats just the way it is im afraid.

this doesnt mean, every game must copy one another to ensure that options avaliable.

Ur killing the diversity of the genre by advocating this.

WoW And GW2 should be stark opposites. Same as FFXIV, im sorry, but ur asking games to needlessly compete and Potientally Kill one another outright for the sake of ur game giving u want u want.

your not asking for a game to become better.

ur asking a game to chanfge direction entirely, to fit what u want better theres a Major difference.

Improving a game is taking the system it does and provide feedback how to improve that system. Not to burn the entire system from ground up to rebuild it differently. just like telling anet GW2 needs a verticle grind isnt Advocating for imporvement.

Its Advocating for the entire game to take a Rework.

22

Sure you would need to reduce the bloat. And I think they should, because there are difficulties that fill the same niche. With the addition of Mythic +, Heroic dungeons have become extraneous, and M+0 with some minor rebalances could fill the same role if it was moved to LFD . Same with Normal/LFR, one of them could be removed, the remaining made to be matchmade, with the difficulty being roughly in the middle between the two (by all accounts, the difference isn’t that drastic)
And they could drop ilvl jump between difficulties right next to each from 10 to 5 ilvls (without increasing stats per ilvl ofc), and the item growth would end up rouuughly where I want it. Add gear for valour points or badges (like it existed in BC, Wrath and Cata) that is equivalent to Normal/Heroic raids, make it only appear in .5 patches roughly halfway through the tier, and you’re pretty much where I want to be gearwise. Possibly add crafted gear a difficulty tier below token gear (i.e. 5 ilvls), as a catchup, so that someone who wants to can jump straight into beginning of Heroic raids if they have the skill and resources for it.

If necessary, spread these changes over the course of several patches and/or expansions, to let people adjust to the new paradigm.

I also think gear should cap out at Heroic raids and Mythic raids should just exist for bragging rights, but I know that suggestion won’t go anywhere, but I absolutely had to mention it.

I am well aware that the additional difficulties were originally added for a reason, but that doesn’t mean the difficulty and reward pool hasn’t become overly bloated over the years. And they have become bloated and need some trimming.

I will say that I’m not super attached to this particular solution, I do see the massive gap as a problem for a few reasons

  • you can never make an open world encounter that will interesting to both someone primarily in the open world, and someone who has M+ or Raid gear, because no matter how complicated you make it, unless it literally one shots everyone, someone in raid gear will be able to stomp all over it
  • alts
  • because of the massive gear gap, raiding is needlessly intimidating for someone starting out…though of course, there are tragically few entirely new players in WoW lately

WoW and FFXIV are and have always been in direct competition (except FFXIV 1.0, but we don’t talk about 1.0), more or less, because FFXIV was directly inspired by WoW’s sytems during it’s 2.0 rework when Yoshi-P took over as game director. Why do you think large chunk of (formerly) WoW players took to it like fish to water during the Shadowlands exodus.
The major differences are that WoW doesn’t respect your time but has had generally better overall active moment to moment gameplay, and FFXIV has more non-combat activites you can kill time with when you’re not raiding…and way better storytelling.

Taking notes and borrowing ideas from your competition never was and never will be a bad thing.

GW2 indeed is a very different beast however, that is true enough, as its focus is primarily PvP and open world content, and its systems are designed with that in mind.

23

Heres the issue.

If u crushed WoWs gear tread mill, its Raid focus, and Its Power gains down.

this game would die instantly to FFXIV. im sorry it would.

What prevents FFXIV killing WoW right now, is EXACTLY What ur asking to lose. FFXIV is a Better game. It has More stable systems, it offers Wider variety of Content, it does story telling better, it Does class Design better. It Stomps WoW into the ground Regarding Expansion launchs.

However.

FFXIV Does not offer Super high gear treadmills, and Continous Raid Focus and Launchs.

Which means People like Scottzone, Preach, Asmongold and All these other big names, wont leave WoW. they’ll dive back in everytime. Because FFXIV Doesnt offer what they’re after im afraid it Just quite litterally doesnt.

FFXIV is Very small on Raid content it Delievers. it has no Real Dungeon Scaling barring the few upcoming but its Still a Firm brick wall on where it ends realistically.

If u drop WoW into a Open World catagory.

GW2 Will stomp it into the ground. Im sorry but it will. GW2 Engine can hold FAR larger Open world events then WoW Can. it can make Open world far more grand, and Its Mount systems and Open world systems are already concrete and running unlike WoWs.

WoW would be jumping off a backfoot in regards here.

and It’d still likely Hemorrage WoW.

what ur asking for is Simply woW to lose its Niche. the thing it offers the other 2 simply Dont. and they Dont.

FFXIV only launchs 1 or 2 Ultimate raids a Year. It very rarely pushs past Savage and even then their Raid Launchs are sparse and their raids are Smaller, Scottzone Said it and everyt other raiders said it… the Raiding community of FFXIV are actually one of the most negative. Alike the casuals here and how negative they are.

Burning WoWs niche, its Staple comparitively is a HUGE RISK.

considering FFXIV is better then WoW in EVERY OTHER WAY. and most people wil ladmit it. FFXIV Simply is.

if FFXIV Launched M+. I would Quit this game and Litterally never return.

WoW Would be Dead the day it happened. if it upp’d its Raiding content it’d topple WoW EASILY. and again most people know it.

24

When I hear something like this I genuinely fear what, precisely, is meant.

Do I think there’s room for open world content that’s challenging enough to warrant mythic raid gear level? Well, sure. As a matter of fact I think the more stuff can take place in the world itself the better, however Blizzard’s concern is that the quests can be zerged, which is a concern I very much share. Because, obviously, the ability to zerg such content immediately undermines any sort of challenge it would present.

It’s not about good gear being exclusive to raiders. It’s about it being tough to get. It doesn’t have to be as tough as it is now, but it does have to be tough. Very tough. You can get raid-equivalent gear from M+ as well, and PvP gear is even stronger in the open world provided you enter warmode - and not just against players, but against everything. So raiders have long since accepted that they don’t get the omegabest gear any more. Or they’ve left, probably a bit of both.

I would not like for the game to devolve into a situation where thousands of players just run around the world all day farming some random resource for days and days and days to get the best gear and there being no challenges for them along the way. That is outrageous and not appropriate.

So, I challenge you OP. I challenge you to find a challenge that should award Mythic Raid level gear that takes place as a part of open world questing, and I challenge you to find a way to implement it that does not lead to degenerate gameplay like excessive crowding and farming with no challenges to overcome other than the mental fortitude to say goodbye to family and friends in the pursuit of more time for WoW.

25

So, you obviously never raided before Legion? Vanilla, BC, WotLk, Cata had awful trash pack design. They were never challenging, but wasted a lot of your time and were on low respawn rates.
And I never said “it takes longer than bosses”, it just blocks progress for no reason, when you have 1 try at C’thun and run back for 10 minutes and have to fight through tons of trash again.

I never raided mythic, but I doubt it would be harder than wotlk hardmodes were or any raid in hardest difficulty after that.
It’s overtuned for world first and gets nerfed week by week. So it’s another try and error until everyone in the raid learns to move and play the mechanic.
You can do this all week long but this doesn’t mean you “deserve” a huge reward besides the “we did it”.
I can’t follow that whole crying of “but I waste my time that way and it’s way harder” in the end time is the main factor. You can teach almost anyone to play encounters - some just need more training.
WoW isn’t rocket science or something you need exemplary genetics to be successful. This gets pretty obvious when you can sell boosts from mythic raids - it can’t be that hard when you can carry 3-4 idiots that don’t even play it.

Just give people that use their time differently similar rewards. You don’t need a 50+ ilvl difference in game modes.

I just saw your statement in the other thread. Ok, I understand why you don’t get it.

I’ve played since the beginning of bfa, that’s far from 10 years.

26

Yet its looks like only person what have problem with ego is you. Otherwise you wouldnt mind other players having better gear than you becouse they you know put way more effort into the game.

1 Like
27

On the other hand, why anyone minds if someone have a better or similar gear than her/him, regardless the source? Ego.
And effort is very relative! For some grinding a tons of mobs for upgrade curencies - like the upgradable Korthia gear or the Cypher gear or PvP honor/valor gear - is an effort!
More time actually than a raid.
Objecitvely speaking if you spend months to grind a content, killing mobs etc is equaly an effort if not more.
You don’t need 20+ people, don’t have a boss at the end with loot and mechanics, and raids, compared to such gear you get by a few hours of raiding, you spend months and more time and effort, dedication to the point it becomes a chore (like radiing for some)…
And with such gear maybe hit the bar to be accepted in your guild or pug raid team… mechanics is not some magical or forbidden knowladge; anyone with half an hour could read/watch about it and after a few try will do it right, avoid mistakes.
And if you remove from the equation the Boss and the mechanics Raid is basically the same like grinding such an “out door content” just takes considerably shorter time…

28

Dont play around with IF. Also you completly ignore the social difficulty of being in the guild and gathering 20 players for raid. Which is something you dont have in open world son you have to count that into content difficulty. GW2 tried to reward same gear as raid gear from open world and it hard failed. You should alredy know by now that socialism doesnt work.

1 Like
29

No. We already get WQ gear upgrades from renown, which realistically starts at 60 now thanks to the token you can buy for what, 500g?
If you want better gear put in the time and effort like everyone else.

30

There’s nowt more for us peasants, no incentive to play the same daily borefest really, just get used to it. One reason why so many players have quit imo.

2 Likes
31

world quest gear is designed so you can comfortably do world quests with it. mythic raiding gear is designed so you can do mythic raiding with it.

if you would give anyone bis max ilvl gear, that does 3 wq’s a week, you can just put a vendor at sw/og who’s selling max ilvl gear.

How does that make any sense.

32

Quite actually
So everyone could/would do what his/her deisre, run Myth, run PvP run rais, do whatever want…
Of course if you only run raids and such for the gear itslef? Well…
:person_shrugging:
Other people paly for fun
(Fun is relative, I know, for you maybe it is fun to do x content y time to get a gear, for me, not)

33

The gear system is designed so you can play the content that you want to play. You can play open world content with the current open world gear.

Why would you want gear, where you would be able to almost oneshot enemies?

34

Don’t tell me raid so you will have the gear to… raid sounds logical :thinking:
Having a common source for gear wich makes ALL WoW content available to you sounds quite nice imho
This is my two cents of course, we don’t have to agree

We kill Titans… really some anoying raptora wouldn’t have to be a challenge
There are days when one shooting ,godmoding thrugh zones sounds relaxing

35

They should also make +25 m+ give same great vault rewards as mythic raiding tbh

36

Then there would be no reason to waste time with mythic raiding.

37

If that’s your counter argument, then why force people to do mythic raiding for gear?

38

Nobady forcing you to do mythic raiding. Its just fancy word what most of you use to make your argumnets have bit of punch.

39

Mythic + pushing people kinda forced to mythic raid for gear. It’s kinda stupid. M+ should also give the same rewards at highest difficulty, since I don’t see how it’s easier. Mythic raiding is just an overdesigned outdated game mode, that very few people truly enjoy. Why should it have the best rewards?

40

Well it is easyer becouse you need only 5 players. Also there is reason why m+ have rewards only in 15 tiers. Its becouse above 15 lot of classes and specs are simply not viabel. There is only few m+ comps what can actualy reach high m+ tiers.

And no nobady forcing m+ to do raiding. You dont need mythic raid gear sets to do m+.