Probably still more game time than a 60 in retail
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hopefully never
Nothing to do with the point. Fundamentally levelling through classic is enjoyable yes. But making a point that somehow levelling is actually important isnât realistically true.
You can personally set yourself any personal goal litterally. But on a fundamental level of breaking down World of Warcraft and any mmorpg. The game âstartsâ at max level.
And itâs not just a minmax thing.
Thereâs a reason why you donât raid prior max level, thereâs a reason the mid levels arenât balanced, thereâs a reason gear doesnât really matter when your levelling.
Because levelling a more of the RPG side of the game not the fundamental point of the game.
Yes you can do plenty of levelling content as a goal. You can do the iron man challenge. You can speed level.
But on a fundamental level.
Itâs not important to the long term. Weather you skip it, do it, donât complete lands, complete lands, do every quest, donât do any quest. Itâs irrelevant in the long run. Itâs doesnât impact anything or directly benefit you
People seem to forget
âPersonal goalsâ âenjoymentâ âopinonsâ âhaving funâ âRPGsâ arenât fundamental points of mmorpgs. They are feelings you have playing the game in the fashion you WANT to. Not need to.
Itâs fine to argue you like levelling. Or enjoy it. But that doesnât make it core to the progression of the game.
And your correct.
But weather a mage boosts you, you buy a boost or level a char yourself doesnt change it.
It is progression. But the end game loop wouldnât be altered if the levelling process didnât exist which si what Iâm stating.
Itâs not tied to the end game on a fundamental level. Itâs there to create a bond between the player and the character realistically via the time investment to level 1-60.
Iâm not saying levelling isnât important to a game. But weather you level a char. Or boost a char it doesnât change anything for you.
The raid loops farming gear doing reputations are effectively the fundamental end game levels.
Hence why alot of the points against boosting is to do with its impact in raiding / groups / skill level of players etc etc.
The problem with the boost is it floods the end game with a ton of people who donât know wtf to doâŚ
To me personally even if Iâm against the boost. Levelling is the in-game equivilant to your mum telling you to have to clean your room before your allowed to play on the PC.
Itâs a important step in the process of getting onto your PC. But itâs only important because someone told you u cant do the other thing til afterwards.
The truth of the matter is that vanilla wasnât designed with the idea that raiding or hardcore pvp was something every player set as their goal. There were way less people raiding back then as there is now for example. And the devs never even expected a large part of the playerbase to be able to organise properly to reach such heights. The design philosphy was different. The idea was that these raids (especially the later ones) were for the hardcore players and most players would probably never down KelâThuzad.
Saying that the game starts at endgame is a retail concept which you could /subjectively/ now that the community has changed, the way people play vanilla(classic) has changed, could argue /might/ hold some truth to it, except for the fact that there isnât nearly enough content, nor is it challenging enough, to keep someone busy without them getting tired of it. A lot of players just raidlog and eventually go on hiatus or quit before Naxx was even released. Levelling characters, alts, was meant to be a more mainstream way of spending time in the game, than raiding or high-end pvp even was. Which is why these systems arenât necessarily as well designed as they could be. This changed somewhat in TBC, but the idea that the levelling is a major part of the game persisted, but they went out of their way to revamp the levelling experience a bit by adding more quests and reducing the amount of xp required to reach 60.
There is too much off-topic discussion going on here. Leveling is FINE, raiding is FINE, the way that each of you wana play the game is FINE. just dont die on your chair. Thats why character boost is fine IMO.
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I disagree. If a lot of players skip the leveling process:
- All crafting material from 1-60 wonât be provided by leveling players anymore and put on the auction house. A lot of that is also relevant to a max level player (leveling professions, weapon oils, some elixirs, potions, grenades, sappers, etcâŚ)
- You either have to farm more yourself or pay more gold, because iron ore is somehow worth more than fel iron ore now
A healthy leveling population is always important for endgame players. This changed with newer expansions and they made all of those old world materials completely useless for endgame progression. And this made leveling feel even more âboringâ and âpointlessâ.
- Leveling the normal way will populate the world (what i said above) and also makes leveling more fun for everyone, cause a dying world is the death for a mmorpg. Thatâs why you want to keep the leveling phase relevant. Classic and TBC did a great job in that case.
- Mage boosting is kinda worse but still not as bad as boosts. Players usually dont boost all their way from 1-60 and still partly participate in world content.
Also they pay with gold they farmed in the game (if this gold is RMT gold though, thatâs very bad. But that is a different problem that has to be fixed by Bli**ard)
So if there wouldnât be an overwhelming RMT market, only veteran players can afford a boost cause they have the gold => less people will buy mage boosting => boosting will slowly get less popular => more players will level => economy will stabilize. - if you enable a boost to skip all of this, youâre killing a huge and important part of the game. It is a very destructive behaviour for a developer, to allow players to skip a major part of the game they designed to be relevant for everyone
Quest: kill 20 humanoids. Humanoids drop cloth. Cloth goes on the auction house. Level 70 full geared player levels a new profession with this cloth.
Just a small example. It happens all the time and affects everyone taking part in the economy, essentially every player that plays the game
I also have those âdamn i donât want to levelâ times and wish i could just boost. But i rather didnât have the boost in the game.
Itâs even harder to motivate myself if everyone skips it. And it makes the leveling experience even worse, cause no one else is doing it.
It is a shame that game developers are allowing these kind of rabbit holes for quick cash, because they know it will have negative longterm changes
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Which is why gear/profession boosts should also be FINE. Play the way you want.
I like leveling but i dont like the raid grind, so can i buy a boost that I level from 1-70 and then at 70 i get bis gear? Or is this somehow absurd or ridiculous for some reason?
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Did i ever mention gear or profession ?
Made my own post on the forums with a thought I had and Iâm being torn to shreds by some players 
so I feel your pain right now having to deal with all of these uncompromising, hostile and downright condescending tones. Yikes. People are the worst.
No, but theyâre all the same in the game: content.
If you decide you can skip leveling content, why wouldnât you want to skip other content?
I feel like i am talking to a 5 year old.
Its confirmed that 58 boost is coming.
Case closed.
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ikr
10chat
âStuff i want is ok, stuff you dont is notâ
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Yes but game mentality has changed since then. Tbh I didnât like levelling the first time in vanilla. Just enjoyed being 60 and sitting around with guildies and doing stuff with em each week.
Lots of people enjoy levelling enjoy the investments Iâm not saying the levelling experience of vanilla Is bad or irrelevant.
Imho retail should return to that form of levelling.
However mmorpgs are built on the concept of end gaming raiding/gearing itâs kinda the genre set out.
What I ment originally is Ur method of levelling doesnât impact nothing about Ur character long term. Past the self-experience of doing it. It fundamentally made no difference to your character.
The core pactful things all happened realistically at end level. Til end level your basically playing a incomplete character.
Fundamentally there is a argument the entire levelling process is just pushing your character 20 steps back to rewalk 20 steps.
Levelling processes are treated a tutorial. A enviroment which you will learn your abilities over time and be able to practice your classes kit over time.
But you can accomplish the same thing spending 3 hours hitting a training dummy with the rotation written down on your second screen.
Yeah but to many this just sounds like a retail train of thought where you pay for convenience / fashion and generally pay more to play the game less, to the benefit of blizzard at the cost of the other players.
As I said I hate boosting. I actually enjoyed the levelling I feel my original post was demonized alittle bit because of the topic.
The levelling process is very relevent to Ur experience of the game. What I ment was. Nothing from the levelling phase of a mmorpg affects you long term itâs not impactful.
The levelling is there to build that time investment and loyalty to your character ofcourse. Itâs there for the RPG nature of the game.
But if we were to talk fundamental mechanics, you could have had the game never have a levelling system and it wouldnât change what you do after the levelling experience
We talk mats. But if 0 people level 0 people need the gear. Without demand the mats of those levels are irrelevant.
Vanilla WoW did a good job at making main classes stick harder. In new WoW I struggle more then ever not to make another character. Because itâs so accessible.
Vanilla times helped me alot to build a main and stick to that main. The hard work and time investment felt good.
But the levelling experience is RPG based and apart of your experience and no it shouldnt change
No. As I stated in against that notion entirely
The levelling phase of the game is apart of the RPG nature of the game. The time investment helps build that bridge of your main class.
Itâs not a core part of the long term of your character. But itâs important to have the RPG feature
As I said itâs enjoyable and gives it that loyalty I just donât classify it as a impactful part of the game itself.
On the player themselves the experiences, journies and friends will be long term impactful ofcourse.
I enjoy levelling. (Most of the time) retail murdered it to a point where levelling isnât enjoyable anymore.
And tbh Iâve quit retail to play gw2 nowadays anyway. Retail ainât gonna get better and Iâm finally accepting that
Of course, what players value the most and what they deem impactul is all very personal and subjective. Itâs an opinion. A decent chunk of the playerbase has the opinion that the boost could be a slipperly slope to blizzard turning classic into retail electric boogaloo.
If people donât enjoy the game at 60 /more/ than levelling, or you donât deem levelling worth your time, thatâs completely fine. However something like a boost impacts more than just the individuals buying the boost and as I said, a lot of players are distrustful of Blizzard after leaving retail for Classic. The more of these non-gameplay related changes they add to make the game even SLIGHTLY more like retail is going to worry Classic players who have been there for the entirety of its run and are now invested in that version of the game and fear it turning into another soulless microtransaction cashgrab of a game.
But the levelling experience is a core part of the long term of your character.
As in, you personally. Being part of the server community and experiencing the world. Sure mage boosters take away a lot of ppl just sitting afk in Mauradon, but thatâs still better than than the instant boost and is a transaction/interaction between players. But we already went over that. One of the reasons retail feels so dead is because thereâs almost no tangible feeling of a community by comparison.
Iâve made loads of friends over the course of classic, some who i lost contact with but yâknow, it was fun while it lasted. Just the other day I was basically boosting 4 prebis players with BRD lava runs with my T3 near BIS holy priest, we had 2 warriors, a feral druid and a ret paladin (without consecration) and I just put a renew on everyone in the Lyceum and we basically walked through it like it was a retail dungeon. (Lols) I added them to my friends list and kept in touch with them and spoke to them a few times, went back on another day with some of them because we had only gotten 1 HOJ (the 4 of em were all farming HOJ). And after one of them got theirs after doing some more runs they whispered me and the other guy who had gotten it in our initial runs to tell them the good news. These are all wonderful interactions which in my opinion are so much more impactful and fun than just killing KelâThuzad 100 times to be finally be given THC or Hammer of the Twisting Nether.
Well yes Imho one of the strongest reasons I feel people get bored of their characters repeatively reroll til they burn out and just kinda repeatively slave at the system rolling fotms is partially because this part of WoW got lost.
But at core thats what I originally ment. The levelling system of vanilla was you grow with your character. It built the RPG foundation. It gave you something to invest time into to get a reward at the end.
Itâs easier to break it down into a book format
With pre and post max level being different chapters.
You can level characters and never do end game progression and you can have end game progression without characters. But ofcourse every hill you overcome is effectively a story of how u got there.
Levelling effectively used to world build and deliever story. In retail itâs now just to force people to play the story. Which imho is a major reason to why levelling has kinda reached a point where it prolly shouldnt exist anymore.
Levellings considered a journey more then anything and thatâs because effectively Max level is the destination in a sense. Itâs the lead up to the point where alot of people call âthe real gameâ. And thatâs because it comes down to perspective.
Itâs walking 100 miles in the shoes of Ur character to achieve a point. Now my views maybe slightly jaded by the rxistance of expansions.
Due to how they just add 10 levels to every expansion. U never recapture that real levelling period like classic did. Because the distance is just that much shorter. Espically when levelling got faster.
I came from everquest 1 a game that effectively due to a AA system litterally levelling never ended.
I was a 110 bard with 28,000 AAs and no where near capped when I came to leave eq1. As I orginally played both games. But then went on to only playing WoW when I decided to make the switch as I didnât have as much time as I did prior going forward.
I feel WoW could have evolved (maybe not to the same extreme) as that where levelling kinda retained its major point⌠but levelling basically became do 10 and raid which is where character value and more was lost on me.
I consider a levelling part and a end game part pretty far apart in what they are. U donât have to do the other to do either of these things effectively which is why I donât rly consider it a end game in itself.
Unless Ur playing the game to max 50 characters which obviously youâve made a game of it which is where u can play the game without doing the end game.
I know plenty who never level and only spam end game. I know plenty who do nothing but levelâŚ
I mean Iâm not much of a level lover never have been. Iâm generally fine with it once. But I canât stick at it again afterwards but I canât deny the fact reaching 60 was more satisfying in vanilla then todayâs WoW.
Think I spent the first 3 days of my first 60 jumping around stormwind in circles lmao.
I think I got on more with eq1s levelling because there was 0 solo content and no questing. You would pick a spot. Call out to say you have taken that camp. Then u would have a puller who pulled mobs u would kill mobs repeatively.
Felt more like being sat around a table with friends with a beer rather then actually levelling.
I remember in early EQ1 bards could kite entire zones to death too was awesome
Yeah, thatâs fair. 
I was gonna play tbc originally tbh, but the monetisation of classic has put me off. Knowing itâs taking this route is enough really. And the quantity of people justifying its arrival likely means itâs due to only get worse.
I know 99% of games now offer boosts. But it seems a real stab in the back of company intergrity to monetize a rerelease of a old game just because itâs more popular then the new one.