I believe the issue here is that in this case group leaders would rely even more on gearscore.
I read this as “I want to be carried and right now that’s not possible because people look at my logs and see that i’m a bad player”.
You’re perfectly able to play the game, people just choose not to play it with you. Find some like minded people and progress ulduar together, don’t try to jump ahead by having better and more experienced players carry you.
1 Like
Not having “good” logs doesn’t necessarily make you a bad player though. Lots of guilds, including mine, died to the roster boss during WotLK. Of course you’re not gonna parse in the higher brackets when you’re 18 people showing up for Ulduar 25. That aside, the highest percentage also use gimmicky tactics and/or other quirky stuff just to get a better score. If you have seen how people doing 99-100 parses play the game you should know this.
I heard of a top parsing rogue having an agreement with his guild to not dmg adds on Razorscale for example since they apparently don’t count towards your score. This in order to save his internal cooldowns on procs etc for the boss burn phase. This is not something you can expect everyone to do and does not make everyone not doing it a bad player. In order to draw conclusions from logs, you need to understand what they are in the first place.
2 Likes
If you delete logs then people have no idea how good you are at the game, which means the only metric they have to go on is achievements and gear, that means good players would have a harder time finding groups unless they meet high achievement/gear thresholds.
It would also be much harder to recruit good players, much harder to teach players how to improve, much harder for players to analyse their own gameplay to see how to improve. Removing logs would not improve anything, other than it would allow less skilled players more opportunity, opportunity they would initially have to gain through spending gold for achievement boosts and/or GDKP.
This statement is meaningless without context. Most good parses are not cheesing, but simply about killing the boss fast, which is just a side effect of having a high dps raid, the better the players in your raid the better chance you get a 99 parse. There are exceptions of course, but generally this is often the case.
When people are evaluating your parses, nobody cares if you have all 99 parses, they want to see if you’re playing correctly. I will ignore your parse and immediately look at your casts, your cooldown timings, your positioning, how often do you die, and if it’s your fault or you could have done something meaningful to prevent it.
Any good player will be parsing regularly in the 90 range and that requires nothing special at all, nobody is recruiting players expecting 99 parses in an environment where you’re never getting a 99 parse, because good recruiters understand the conditions.
1 Like
- Non-social, raid logging: The truth is that Wrath has largely eliminated the social aspects of WoW. People just raid log. In an MMORPG, this creates the feeling of having a job/chore to do rather than gaming. So when this feeling builds up, people would rather do other things than play Wrath.
Does this apply to just Wrath? If not then it’s a problem with MMORPGs in general then it’s mostly the player mentality of making it to be their job. Maybe people just play different games and are just doing their raids whenever they reset. I don’t know, I ain’t that kinda guy who looks too deep into it, I just wanna play.
- Parsing culture: People who raid log also tend to be people who like to parse. This creates an adversarial feeling among the community which further hampers the social aspect of the mmorpg. Especially, when the tactics to parse include cheesing boss mechanics or forcing an entire raid to accommodate specific people. And worst of all, you can’t parse with a casual team.
Parsing should be used not to criticize or gatekeep but allow others to improve. Of course, you want to have the best possible team so you can be realm-first when the next big raid drops, I won’t judge them for it but using it to gatekeep newer players and not help them improve on how they could possibly play is overall a terrible way of handling parses.
- Difficulty: The difficulty curve for Wrath’s hard modes is simply too high for many guilds. Casual guilds can’t clear hard modes and the stagnation causes frustration and boredom. So points 1-3 synergize to work as a disincentive to play the game.
I can’t talk about that, I am not cued in on that so I’ll refrain from saying anything.
- Class balance. Wrath claims that it focuses on the player rather than the class but this is largely false. DKs, Rogues and Locks dominate the dps meters, Hpaladins and Disc Priests dominate the healing aspect. Blizzard has buffed feral dps and Retribution paladins but this is not enough. Warriors and many other specs of other classes are behind.
Yea, I saw some logs and can tell it’s true. The top 5s usually consist of 2/3 rogues, 1/2 DKs and 1/2 locks with the occasional retri pala somehow pushing through in terms of damage. Same for healing and tanking. Though there some guilds genuinely don’t mind if you play something like BM Hunter or Sub Rogue in raids. But those are mostly casual raiding guilds who just let you play whatever you want.
- Unfriendly to new players. You cannot gear up for raids without a guild. Alpha protocol dungeons are supposed to be catch-up contents but they fail spectacularly to do so. They are too difficult and require good gear to even enter. The new Beta protocol dungeons will worsen the case even more.
I can’t wait to be lvl 80 and be told to sod off for not having good gear to enter dungeons or raids. The thought of spending thousands of gold for just gear alone via GDKP is off putting to me. It’s disturbing.
- Poor management by Blizzard. Bots running wild. Class issues addressed too late, too poorly or not at all. Servers with huge populations, and servers with too low populations. Transferring servers is restricted and behind a paywall.
Can’t argue with that, Blizzard doesn’t care too much about Wrath Classic. The bots alone are enough proof that they don’t care about the players.
And in all honesty, I doubt I’ll be able to find a guild that’s willing to go through the content that they have done again but with someone who is inexperienced this time around. It’s just an overall awkward situation to be in. Guilds disappear because no new content, new players get screwed over because those that do raid don’t want to accept someone who has no raiding experience and no gear and thus must turn to GDKPs…
The game’s going down a spiral. Maybe TOCG release could solve some problem but Blizzard must ultimately bite down on the major issues that the game is currently holding in order for it to be enjoyable again.
1 Like
If you arent getting invited to pugs because of your parse, you are either an alt that dinged a few days ago or just plain bad.
Relevant if you want to get a 100, completely irrelevant if you want to parse high enough to get invited.
This is exactly what it means. Logs are not composed of only parse numbers. Some people are doing mental gymnastics around WCL and when you check them it always turns out that “remove logs” dudes 9/10 times don’t pop consumables, don’t have correct enchants/gems, press wrong buttons and in general play fights poorly.
That’s cool if someone is pushing from 98-99 to 100 but just playing the game well can earn you 80+ and no one gonna complain about outclassing 80% of the competition.
Of course everything requires context. So does the statement I was replying to. “Bad parse = bad player” is also a meaningless thing to state.
I don’t pug raids so I wouldn’t know. I just stated that someone parsing in the top 10% is not necessarily a mechanically better player than someone in the top 20%, or even 30%.
You’re a bad player only if you consistently parse low in good gear. If you parse low but your gear is bad it doesn’t mean anything. But you wouldn’t get into a pug with low gear regardless of your skill. A guild recruiter will be considering a lot more.
I changed guilds just over a month ago, just before transferring I came across an issue where the server was locked to transfers, we got around that issue via Ashbringer (I moved to Mograine)… In the brief period where I thought I couldn’t transfer we had the discussion about me rerolling a brand new character and getting carried to good gear.
This is guild recruitment, they are recruiting players, people. A pug is recruiting a mercenary, they want you to show up ready, do your job and then you part ways. It’s important to understand the difference here.
You’re making the argument for exceptions, You can’t take the exception as the rule. Statistically, higher parsing players are better at the game and are more invested in their performance. Consistency and context matters.
If you were a Fury Warrior and linked me your logs, I can see everything and that means I can see how good you are at the game, how well you understand gearing and also what would need to be changed to improve it. Without logs I’d have to have video footage of you playing, and in some cases I would even miss things that I could have seen in a log.
Did the right thing and canceled both my subs and now im saving 30 euros a month
1 Like
Updating population:
Another 12k raiders lost during the last week. Currently, 34% loss for the peak of the phase.
45.5% decline from the peak of Wrath.
2 Likes
Sad to say I expected nothing less. Next phase will maybe stop the decline a bit but not for long.
Only ICC will bring players back, but for how long? At this rate Blizz has to realize maybe going for cata isn’t such a good idea. Wrath was the supposed pinnacle of wow and we’re seeing the most people quitting since back in cata, so imagine them thinking about cata classic now…
1 Like
You think ToGC at the height of summer is gonna … halt the decline?
1 Like
Depends on what you see as good. I’ll agree that 99s and 100s are not required or even a statement about your skill. It’s mostly group comp, parse strats and killtime at this point. But if you’re playing well and attempting to get into good groups, having 75+ or something like it is inevitable.
Correct, which is why when looking at a new recruit for your guild, you don’t just blindly fiend after the %s, but also look at the execution, participation in important raid mechanics, and similar things.
Isn’t the same guilds who wanted Ulduar for 6 months because they named it the best raid ever ?
2 Likes
Honestly, for me, Ulduar is not that great.
1 Like
well now more guild gonna fall apart… 4 more reset of this turd hole, holy f buzzard wtf are you doing
1 Like
unless youre speedrunning guilds are outdated, join high standard pugs/gdkps and enjoy a flexible schedule without cringe loot council
1 Like
And enjoy being kept out of the raids through GS, potentially logs or in case of GDKP not deep enough pockets
3 Likes
Well I said a bit 
but yeah probably not even that. JJ being brought back might be good though, I dunno at this point.
Unrelated: give us a TBC server!!
3 Likes