No. I’m a healer main. I’ve been playing Mistweaver since 2014, and in PvP at that.
I’m dead serious.
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It would definetely not solve the issue 100%. But it would allow for less players that play damage-dealing exclusively to just stare at being declined due to more spots being open in general. Yes, some people would still never get into a group, but on average we’d have at least 50% more damage-dealers enter content.
Here’s a simple example. Let’s assume that the playerbase is split into 15% tanks, 20% healers and 65% damage dealers, and the weekly maintenance is over and the new week starts. After 100 keys have been initated, you have the following:
100 tanks have entered, 100 healers have entered, 300 dps have entered. So 0 tanks are waiting, 33 healers are waiting and 133 damage dealers are waiting. After 10000 keys you have 0 tanks waiting, 3333 healers waiting, 13333 damage dealers waiting etc. So as time passes more and more damage dealers do not enter keys, and either are forced to change role or to not run at all.
With groups set as 1-1-4, we have: After 100 keys, you have 0 tanks waiting, 33 healers waiting, 33 damage dealers waiting. After 10000 keys you have 0 tanks waiting, 3333 healers waiting, 3333 damage dealers waiting, etc. That’s a 75% decrease in amount of damage dealers waiting!
So the situation is not permanently solved, but it is massively improved. The key is to first find the actual player distribution in terms of roles, then arrange the basic group composition to fit that split, and finally to balance the content around the base “group unit”.
I get what you’re saying…but the numbers seem to have fallen out of thin air? Using your numbers, you’d have a DPS shortage in a 1-1-4 system.
Anyways, there are way too many variables to actually make such “simple examples”.
Please, lets not shift M+ into the raid direction. It was once introduced as alternative to raids, so you don’t have to manage an entire raid team to get going. If we shift in group compositions, then we kind of move the goal posts back to where they were before the introduction of M+.
All in all this entire idea is a typical version of forgetting the past, to come up with a solution that brings you back to exactly that problematic position.
I am sorry, but i have never said that.
Not sure what that has to do with this particular topic.
The only numbers I pulled out of my behind are the 15%-18%-67% split. Everything else is hard math, with 0 room for assumptions. I can provide detailed explanation of how every figure is calculated if you’d like.
Depending on one’s point of view, and their approach to the game, you may have to manage even a 5-man roster for M+. To me managing a 6-man roster is barely more difficult. Yes, it is more difficult, but (again personal opinion) the benefit of having more players enter content as the role they like outweighs the extra burden on players who micromanage their teams.
For everyone else who just pugs, this is a non-issue. You just pick one more player.
No need to presume anything, when you can start with existing ratio and then use some numbers to make example.
It’s 1T,1H,3D
OK 300 000 dps players online. That means 300k /3 dps players = 100k instances required aka 100k tanks and 100k healers for every dps to have spot.
If dungeons are to become 6 person instances then it would be
300k/4 = 75k instances aka 75k tanks and 75k healers for every dps to be invited.
That is exactly 25% reduction in queue time, which is not shocking since 4 is 25% more than 3.
What is shocking and frightening is that we have people in this thread who are believing that allowing 4th dps to enter the instance will somehow increase queue time.
I’m aware of how you counted. I just don’t think I can get behind using them for the point you’re trying to make. As I said…there are too many details and variables involved.
It’s not just about role distribution, also about online activity of said roles, shift in distribution during a season, tendency for certain roles to more often (partly) go as pre-mades, difference in player-pool depending on the dungeon/level/…, goal of doing runs, etc, etc.
Then you just shifted the goal
The key is to first find the actual player distribution in terms of roles, then arrange the basic group composition to fit that split
That doesn’t talk specifically about 4 DPS slots, instead of 3. Can be more (which is expected, if we look at popular key level sign-ups).
Why do people not want to fill the roles in higher demand? I think this would be a better question to investigate than tweaking the group compositions in M+. As that’d lead to an actual long-term solution.
It’s not that simple. But the concensus should be that such a change would drive down the waiting queues for damage dealers.
Also, 4 is 33.33333333…% larger than 3. It’s just that 3 is 25% smaller than 4 
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Indeed, thanks for correction.
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Of course. Which means that we cannot really estimate the scale of impact such a change would have. For example some players that are now changing role from damage dealer to tank or healer would be less inclined to do so. And on the other hand, some players would not like to have to heal an extra raid frame, so they’d shift from healer to damage dealer, etc.
But since the demand for damage dealers would increase, then this means that wait times would be decreased and acceptance rates for that role would increase.
We need data that not even rio can provide, but possibly Blizzard has.
You started it
We know the reasons, they have been brought up in every discussion. In brief:
- Most people want to kill stuff
- Many people do not want to be easy to point for mistakes
- Many people like to compare themselves to others in terms of damage output
- Many people like to play at range
I have advocated for reducing the “burden” of some mechanics from tanks and healers and pushing them to the damage dealers, but that means reducing both the skill floor but also the skill ceiling from those 2 roles.
Well, yes. And that makes one wonder why the “1 healer per max 5 players” is basically the norm everywhere in-game. Maybe it’s a matter of “we’re used to it”, perhaps it is in fact suboptimal, or it’s already based on decent considerations. I have no idea.
What I do now though is that I wouldn’t even have bothered to heal pugs using Holy Priest if there was one more damage dealer to top up.
No, no, that one I didn’t shift ;p
There’s little burden to take away from tanks, other than routing/pulling. Mechanics-wise tanks don’t have it that bad. Heck, you can even get hit by quite some avoidables which are deadly (or at least dangerous) to the other 4, just because you’re a tank.
I would almost say the same for healers. What burden is there to take away from them? Avoidable damage becomes deadly quite fast, that’s just an ‘avoid or die’ mechanism. It all mostly depends on the performance of the rest of your group.
And now think about what you said here in the first part:
… and acceptance rates for that role would increase.
I see trouble. The healing role will undeniably get more annoying from this change.
So the healer need to heal one more person? If anything, they should make dungeons 4 man, not 6
That’s not true. Healer is like a support and in good groups you don’t have to babysit people as people give similar effort back as you do. (Aka use defensives when your addon tells you AOE incoming, or addon tells you that you have some sort of debuff, which is very easy as addon tells you what to do)
The deletion of the healer - why is this needed to bring Who is doing complains whenever they are required to do their job ? For you , I give 1 tanker - 4 Damagers . Clearly in the dungeon on queue they are not required to be there , I can heal this myself and I will but they want to go in and complain me for making them not useless . OK! Deletion of the healer, allow the player to keep themselves alive now, everyone prefers , including the healers who want to do their real game of looking pretty while standing in Dalaran City which their uglabans FROWN
This in only true in PvE where everything is easy and scripted.
Arena is a different beast.
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Nobody’s ever going to get into a dungeon with random ppl again 
For damage dealers ofc, by adding an extra slot
for leveling dungeons, timewalking , heroic etc.
No, there would still not be enough tanks and healers.
That is something, that wil never change.
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but 6 man would’nt hurt the game right
That not, no.
But it would mean Blizzard would have to rebalance every dungeon for no gain for players what so ever.
DPS queues would still be terribly long.