Underrepresentation is not = ânot goodâ. MW has always been underrepresented, even if we are the best spec. If you look at Mythic Archimonde in WoD where MW was the best spec by far, you will see that MW was still the least played healer spec by a good margin.
Disc is picked for Power Infusion, Shaman is picked for interrupt, hpaladin is picked for DPS. However in terms of healing and normal damage, MW is good.
But if MW has no significant utility to speak of, no interrupt or stat buff to allies and does less damage than a hpaladin then why would you ever bring it over any of the others? What makes a group leader go âAh yes, a Mistweaver is just what we needâ?
Thatâs a good point, however, thatâs more of an issue with the other classes and not MW. Disc Power Infusion, Paladin DPS or Shaman interrupt isnât something that really matters as much as people think unless youâre pushing super high keys and min-max in any way that you can. MW is more than capable of healing those same high keys, but if a group can choose between two specs then they will always pick the stronger one even if the difference ultimately ends up being small. MW is not the strongest healer, but for 99% of the player base, Mistweaver is good enough for every bit of content they will ever do. People see the top 0.1% players and think âWhat, no MW in the highest keys or world first racing? I guess that means the class is bad/under tuned/needs buffsâ even though itâs not really true. People would rather scream for MW buffs than ask for holy paladin nerfs so they donât burst 10-15k DPS.
M+ is a mess right now, and community perception is that anything thatâs not a Boomie, Fire Mage, Hunter, Windwalker maybe, is seen as completely useless. The same goes for healers, because if you are not a Shaman/Disc/Hpal, then your spec is considered bad. Like even Disc hasnât really been played in keys because âbad specâ, but then people saw Disc being used in MDI (for power infusion and no other reason) and suddenly Disc is âamazingâ for Mythic+.
correct thats very poor performance getting things done. Properly the manpower works on something different. As long the playbase accept this, nothing changes. re-roll shaman now.
Hopefully soon all healers are shamans âŚ
When most of the other healers are good and Mistweaver is just âgood enoughâ, that means Mistweaver is bad in relative terms. And Iâd rather see Mistweaver given more utility/defense or buffed in some other way than see the top healers nerfed. I currently cannot think of a single reason why Iâd want a Mistweaver aside from âthatâs all weâve gotâ. Cocoon and Revival are a joke, Leg Sweep is nerfed in PvE (lol why) and can also be taken by a WW and thatâs about the utility of Mistweaver exhausted. Why Mistweaver had its interrupt taken away makes no sense to me either. Itâs not a question of âcan you do well enough as Mistweaver?â itâs âwhy is it still worse than the other options?â
X spec being better does not mean Y spec is bad, even relatively like you say.
The top 3 healer specs (Disc, Hpal, Rsham) all have too much and thatâs where the issue lies. Besides, the difference between the healer specs is much smaller than people are led to believe. In terms of HPS, every healer is very close. In terms of DPS, Mistweaver is pretty high up there. MW brings a lot of valuable things to the raid that the other specs donât. Are paladins good at raid healing? No. Is Disc good at spot healing? No. Does shaman do any damage? No. Does MW do all of those things while also bringing the highest HPS cd in the game? Yes. Sure, DRâs are usually better but donât sleep on the amount of healing that Yuâlon can do.
I go over this issue here: Mistweaver buff request - #107 by Nasella-kazzak
I really donât feel like typing it out again, so give that a read if you have time.
The fact that MW is not as strong as those specs is literally irrelevant for 99% of the playerbase. In my guild we run a resto druid and MW for every fight. Do you think we have run into a single problem because we use those two âbadâ classes? Do you think itâs somehow hindering us on fights where damage reduction is huge like Mythic Council?
Yes it does lol
Itâs relevant for everybody who wants to play MW and not be a masochist that lies to themselves in order to make them feel better about the sad state the spec is in.
X spec being better does not mean Y spec is bad, even relatively like you say.
Yes it does lol
So⌠Resto Shaman being the overall best healer spec means that Disc/Hpaladin is âbadâ because they arenât as good for the most part? Could the same thing be said for other parts of the game? Barrier is a 25% DR for 10 seconds. Does that mean AM is bad because itâs 20% for 8 seconds?
Itâs relevant for everybody who wants to play MW and not be a masochist that lies to themselves in order to make them feel better about the sad state the spec is in.
Sad state? My man, you are 2/10 LFR. You literally donât play Mistweaver at all. Why are you talking about how the spec performs in a raid environment? I can understand if you think itâs bad in PvP but⌠PvE? What are you basing it on? How is the specs performance relevant for you right now?
What are you people even doing? All you do is bring doom and gloom when you have no idea what you are talking about. Try actually speaking to people who are progressing the last few bosses in Mythic, or better yet, have actually killed them while playing Mistweaver. Go ask the math wizards, theorycrafters, top MW players if the spec is underpowered. See if they say the spec is in a âsad stateâ performance wise. My guild is playing with a Resto Druid and Mistweaver and we are killing Mythic Council tomorrow. Do you think having a MW or Druid means weâll spend longer on it? Do you think we will have more wipes on the next boss, Sludgefist, because we have those two classes? Do you think we have been held back by our healer setup at any point during this tier?
It baffles me that you speak about healer balance and act like you would just âbring the same healersâ without understanding why. You donât make a cake with just frosting because thatâs disgusting. Healer comps are the same, as in you donât just stack X ingredient because it does more for your cake than Y ingredient does.
Iâm sorry but your pathetic ad hominems have nothing to do with stats. People donât play mistweaver competitively on the high end of any content, including Mythic+, Raiding and PvP. (And no, progressing council 2 months after raid release isnât high end.)
Me not being interested in PvE doesnât suddenly invalidate the fact that MW is significantly worse off than other healers in all forms of content, according to the statistics we have access to.
Irrelevant anecdotal evidence.
Yes. It depends on many factors obviously, but if it were the healers that were dragging the team down then yes, you would be better off with better healer specs.
People almost never play MW, regardless of how good it is. It was one of the least played healer specs in HFC when it was the best spec, so what is your point?
And yes, MW is played in high end content. Maybe not in the highest keys or for the World First Race, but there are top 50-100 guilds that run Mistweaver for Mythic prog. A spec doesnât have to be used in the world first race or highest keys in the game to be good or viable.
the fact that MW is significantly worse off than other healers
Can you elaborate? What aspects of raiding are we âsignificantly worse offâ in? I literally explained this to you and you keep repeating the same thing without ever providing any reasons. Youâre basing your entire argument on nothing other than your own feelycrafting. What are your reasons for saying this? Where are you getting it from? Where are the theorycrafters and top 50 raiders who share this opinion that MW is bad and not good enough for the entire playerbase except for the ones at the very very top?
Still waiting for reasons why the spec is in a âsad stateâ performance wise btw.
Yes. It depends on many factors obviously, but if it were the healers that were dragging the team down then yes, you would be better off with better healer specs.
Not sure why you are actually commenting on this when you donât PvE. Thatâs like me talking about the best strategies to use in a football league despite the fact that I havenât played football since I was 5 years old.
If you donât PvE, donât speak with the people pushing world ranks, and donât play Mistweaver in the content that we are discussing, then what your basing your statements on?
Look, the point that I am trying to make is that MW is fine for every single bit of PvE content that the people on these forums will ever do. I guarantee you itâs not the class holding you back from performing well or healing that +15 key. Itâs you. Skill matters infinitely more than your class unless youâre literally pushing the limits of the game. (And even then! Thereâs a reason why some guilds play MW over another rsham/dsc/hpal. Itâs because player>class)
If MW is able to be brought for Mythic Denathrius, then Iâm pretty sure itâs good enough for whatever content youâre doing. The people in here whine about the spec when they put 0 effort into actually learning it and getting better. They want a fotm spec that heals everyone to full hp with one press of a button and requires a total of 3 braincells to master.
For the love of god, a top 16 world guild literally killed Denathrius with a Mistweaver and you fools are whining about the spec not being good enough for whatever irrelevant content you are doing.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/BMyYLkZ2cjf8aFWq#fight=25&type=healing
Second most healing, right behind the Disc priest who got 5 innervates. Most healing in p3, and only being a bit behind the Disc on DPS. Pala is obviously #1 on DPS because thatâs why you bring them for Denathrius.
And before you whine âwell he has a #1 log while the other healers have green logsâ please keep in mind that only 3 MWs have killed the boss rn, and that obviously skewers the statistics quite a bit.
Oh and look, his mana is fine too.
https://gyazo.com/e0945ae8ccb2d7efefa4801b27f4cc0d
So yes, some other healer specs are stronger than MW. But as I have said 100 times⌠that does not mean MW is bad.
You spent way too much effort trying to insult me for not being a hardcore raider and not much effort thinking through elementary school level logic.
Can Mistweaver if played to its fullest potential keep up in HPS with the other healers? Sure. Do they have any form of useful utility or some area they excel in or literally anything thatâd make you want to play them? No. Their defense sucks, they have no relevant utility to speak of for any form of content they donât do more dps than hpala even though MW used to be the melee dps healer and their HPS doesnât outexcel other healers. Theyâre also not very good at mana conservation.
For the five hundreth time, it doesnât matter if something is âenoughâ to be brought when all the other specs in the roster are much better in one or more areas even if the gap isnât too large - thatâll make mistweaver bad.
Every aspect other than pure HPS? Worse utility, no party buffs, terribad cooldowns, less than optimal dmg as the melee healer spec, biggest mana problems out of all healers(even if the best players can make it work that doesnât mean it isnât worse than the others). If you were replaced by a Jade Serpent Statue that cast your basic spells on people nobody would notice that you werenât there as a Mistweaver, because thereâs nothing else you can do.
Every aspect other than pure HPS? Worse utility, no party buffs, terribad cooldowns, less than optimal dmg as the melee healer spec, biggest mana problems out of all healers(even if the best players can make it work that doesnât mean it isnât worse than the others). If you were replaced by a Jade Serpent Statue that cast your basic spells on people nobody would notice that you werenât there as a Mistweaver, because thereâs nothing else you can do.
5% damage, highest HPS cd in the game, high healer damage, insane mobility, a teleport, 2 strong personal CDs, AoE stun, Ring of Peace, ranged CC? Obviously not all of those things are used for every fight (neither is bop, apt and so on) but itâs still pretty decent.
even if the gap isnât too large - thatâll make mistweaver bad.
I ask you again. Is aura mastery bad because barrier is better? is everything thatâs not #1 just automatically BAD because there is something better? Is the second best football team in the world bad because they lost to some other team? Is Mike Tyson a bad boxer because he lost at some point? Because thatâs literally what youâre implying with what you are saying.
You spent way too much effort trying to insult me for not being a hardcore raider
I just think youâre talking out of your behind. You are basing your statements on feelycraft. You ignore every point Iâve made including the fact that you could easily go talk to top MW players and ask them âis MW good?â and you will get a yes. You are ignoring the fact that MW has killed Denathrius.
How is MW BAD when itâs literally brought for a top 16 kill in the world?
https://gyazo.com/538e873c7d0634ad6b45f02135a33095
âterribad cooldownsâ because anything that isnât damage reduction is bad :^)
Isnât unique to Mistweaver. Windwalker brings it.
Which is only on one target and is made irrelevant by the fact that itâs a garbage small shield instead of a % damage reduction which is 9000% more valuable in a raid environment. 40% dmg reduction or a shield that gets removed by one auto attack from a boss? Hmm I wonder.
High healer damage that is lower than the healer that is already better at everything else than Mistweaver.
Which is cool but also not very relevant for a healer.
Where?
Isnât Mistweaver specific. Brought by all monks.
Isnât Mistweaver specific, brought by all monks.
Is still not Mistweaver specific. Brought by all monks which means the windwalker(s)/brewmaster can provide all of these without gimping the healer team.
Thereâs a difference between being slightly worse in X area and being slightly better in Y area - and being worse in every area and just âokâ in the healing department. Really not that hard to understand.
Ah, like the guy who can only give anecdotal evidence of 1 guild that happened to tolerate him bringing a terribad spec and ignores the copious amounts of statistics available which point to the fact that nobody plays Mistweaver on any competitive level? Nice. And no, âsome dude at some point got put into a semi-competitive raidâ just reinforces the trend that there were 5000 other types of healers taken for that 1 MW to be able to show up. Youâd do this forum a great favour if you went somewhere else with your condescending troll act that defies all logic and reason just so you can go âNAH U GUYS JUST SUKK IM DOIN FINEâ. Yeah, no thanks.
Isnât unique to Mistweaver. Windwalker brings it.
True, but could also be said for other specs that bring raidwide buffs.
Which is only on one target and is made irrelevant by the fact that itâs a garbage small shield instead of a % damage reduction which is 9000% more valuable in a raid environment. 40% dmg reduction or a shield that gets removed by one auto attack from a boss? Hmm I wonder.
I am not talking about life cocoon lmao haha. I am talking about yuâlon. Proving my previous comment about you talking out of your behind. One cast: https://gyazo.com/6e7cb9aa78c50e6d6086bc572db3704f
High healer damage that is lower than the healer that is already better at everything else than Mistweaver.
Explain how paladin is better at AoE healing or actual healing than mistweaver? Paladins are only brought for AM and their damage during Ashen Hallow, you know that right? Nobody cares about their healing. Itâs also widely known that their DPS is extremely overpowered. But yes, letâs ask for MW buffs and call the spec terrible instead of asking for nerfs to things that are clearly op.
Which is cool but also not very relevant for a healer.
Actually very relevant. How can you say itâs not relevant in PvE if you donât play it?
2 strong personal CDs. Where?
Diffuse Magic and Fort Brew. Fort Brew used to have a shorter CD, but itâs still quite strong regardless.
AoE stun
True, but again, could be said for a lot of other kinds of utility like BoP
Ring of Peace
WW does not spec into it, not sure about brewmaster.
Is still not Mistweaver specific. Brought by all monks which means the windwalker(s)/brewmaster can provide all of these without gimping the healer team.
Read above.
Thereâs a difference between being slightly worse in X area and being slightly better in Y area - and being worse in every area and just âokâ in the healing department. Really not that hard to understand.
I asked you âX spec being better does not mean Y spec is bad, even relatively like you say.â and you literally said âYes it doesâ Where are you going with this?
Ah, like the guy who can only give anecdotal evidence of 1 guild that happened to tolerate him bringing a terribad spec and ignores the copious amounts of statistics available which point to the fact that nobody plays Mistweaver on any competitive level? Nice. And no, âsome dude at some point got put into a semi-competitive raidâ just reinforces the trend that there were 5000 other types of healers taken for that 1 MW to be able to show up. Youâd do this forum a great favour if you went somewhere else with your condescending troll act that defies all logic and reason just so you can go âNAH U GUYS JUST SUKK IM DOIN FINEâ. Yeah, no thanks.
Again ignoring several points Iâve made just to once again bring your feelycrafting onto the field. Also, what statistics? Nobody plays MW regardless of how well it performs, which I have also told you multiple times. âNobody plays MW on any competitive levelâ again, ignoring what I say and have literally proven is incorrect.
âterribad specâ. You literally donât PvE and you somehow think you know better than top 100 players and theorycrafters for the spec.
You are the exact type of person that people and probably Blizzard devs bring up as an example for why they avoid the forums. Completely delusional.
Nasella you are technically correct saying the problem isnât mistweaver being bad but the top 3 actually bringing too much. Yet on the other hand you spent a good 80 something posts towards defending mistweaver, while since u recognize the issue could write a constructive post why shamans/paladins/disciplines need a serious tone down/nerfbat, because its almost 3months without a proper one.
I actually go over this here:
I think that post covers why I think they need to be toned down a bit.
As for Disc⌠honestly, Disc priest is not really OP right now. Itâs just that every fight has some mechanic thatâs just perfect for Spirit Shell. Council, Sludgefist, Denathrius (not sure about Stone Legion Generals) all the hard fights are just so crazy good for Spirit Shell. So in this specific case, itâs not Disc being overpowered itâs just the fights favoring the spec so much.
Paladin healing and cooldowns are perfectly fine, but their damage during Ashen Hallow is too much. You can outburst most DPS specs with wings+hallow and itâs not too uncommon for a good holy paladin to do 3k+ DPS which is absolutely insane for a healer.
Shaman healing is very high, but they do no damage. However, their strength lies in the fact that they have so many cooldowns and useful spells. DR in spirit link, healing in HTT, AoE mana regen, combat ress in APT (APT is the best talent on like every fight except for Council) and prior to the recent nerfs, not a single guild killed SLG without 2 resto shamans or 2 holy paladins. They also use absolutely no mana, same as Paladins.
I think Iâve said several times that Disc/Hpal/Rsham brings too much and are op, however thatâs a mistake on my part. I should have been more clear instead of lumping Disc in with the two other specs. Itâs not op, but the fights are perfect for it. Thatâs not to say Disc would not be strong without perfectly-timed Spirit Shells, itâs just not something Iâm eager to see nerfed.
Nothing, nothing , nothing again.
Iâm still waiting.
My alts too
In this point, we just might as well w8 for the next expansion
Monk
- Mistweaver
- Chrysalis PVP talent reduces Life Cocoonâs cooldown by 40 seconds (was 25 seconds).
- Mana regeneration increased by 20% when engaged in combat with enemy players.
Good, but we need more.
Yeah we need more, but with another Hpal nerf at last this is somethink too Start with
At last Blizzard still know MW exist, i doubt this bevor