How does your character view the Alliance currently?

True, just re-read some of his lore.

As per Warcraft 3 manual and in-game lore as well as Chronicles and dev Q&A’s, the title he inherited from his father was Baron, which held quite some influence in Lordaeron given how noble houses had quite a bit of power in there, but he wasn’t a Grand Marshal by any means. I quote:

Othmar Garithos was the only son of a baron who ruled the lands bordering Quel'Thalas. After growing up in the town of Blackwood, Garithos joined Lordaeron's army as a knight during the Second War. While he was fighting to defend Quel'Thalas, a small band of orcs broke off from the main invading force and put Blackwood to the torch, killing all of its inhabitants. Othmar's family perished trying to defend the lives and homes of their subjects. Garithos blamed the elves for the loss of his home and family, believing that they had diverted troops that could have been used to defend humanity. After the war, Garithos inherited his father's title and continued his service in Lordaeron's military.

By the time of the Third War, Garithos has risen to the rank of Grand Marshal, promoted not necessarily due to his own abilities, but by his father's reputation and title. He was the highest-ranking survivor of Lordaeron's military after the Scourge's rampage across Lordaeron, and he recruited what forces he could muster from both volunteers and conscripted civilians.

He did. As a knight, not a commander of any kind of rank.

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This isn’t Warcraft 3 or Chronicle lore, it’s from ask the creative devs, which is where we learnt his father was a baron to begin with - and Garithos’ first name, Othmar.

Can we get some information on Garithos? Where he was from and on whose orders was he acting? Was there any significant event in his past that caused his hatred of non-human races?
Grand Marshal Othmar Garithos was the only son of a baron who ruled over lands in what would later be the Eastern Plaguelands that bordered Quel’Thalas. While his father ruled from the town of Blackwood on the shores of the similarly-named lake, Garithos joined the army as a knight during the Second War, where he saw combat in Quel’Thalas defending the elves’ homeland from invading orcs. While he was in Quel’Thalas, however, a small band of orcs broke off from the main invading force and burned his home town to the ground, killing all of its inhabitants in spite of the valorous defense marshaled by its lord. Othmar’s family perished doing their duty, defending the homes and lives of their subjects. He blamed the elves for the loss of his town and family, believing that the elves diverted forces away from the Alliance’s true goal: the defense of humanity alone. After his father’s death, Garithos was awarded his title and continued his service in the armies of Lordaeron. By the time of the Scourging of Lordaeron, he had attained the rank of Grand Marshal and was the highest ranked surviving military officer in the region, promoted not necessarily due to his own abilities, but his father’s reputation and title. Cut off from the chain of command, Garithos amassed a small army of volunteers and conscripted civilians, and gave them the mission that he assumed the Alliance should have always had: the preservation of humanity above all else. Despite the ad-hoc nature of his forces, other states recognized him as potentially the last remnant of Lordaeron’s government and certainly the strongest warlord in the area. As such, officials from neighboring non-human states such as Ironforge and Quel’Thalas sent him aid, ignorant of his intolerant policies.
Which says, as you yourself quoted.

He inherited his father’s title of baron.

And by the time of the Third War, he had risen to the rank of Grand Marshal, promoted not because of his skill, but because of his late father’s reputation.

Which meant that as Grand Marshal, he was the highest ranking survivor of Lordaeron’s military.

IRL, I can assure you such a way of thinking is heavily frowned upon.

Solbranthius is right here, most of the Sunreavers were innocent. In general you can’t hold a group accountable when most of them are completely innocent.

Tbh again, I’m kind of lenient towards her because of all what she’s been going through, but from an ethical pov it was reprehensible.

And the Sunreavers as a whole had to be expelled, but that’s beside the point.

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Sylvanas “saved” him from dreadlord mind control and he agreed to fight with her to retake the captial in return she would leave once she had her vengeance.
sylvanas never meant to honor this deal.
when they retook the city he commanded her to leave but was killed by the dreadlord who served sylvanas at the time.

He knew she was scourge, but was willing to believe her quest was vengeance and we will never know if he actually expected her to leave and if he would have allowed her to walk away.

Walks into the setting
causes so much contradictory lore people are still arguing on internet forums about it literally 2 decades later
has several different in and out of universe answers to his existence
is violently racist
has his racism.exe programming removed after he completes his part of the story
sides with the undead and demons to “reclaim” Lordaeron
racism.exe has rebooted
dies
refuses to elaborate
is never mentioned again

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He was still pretty racist towards sylvanas, calling her a elf witch before he called her undead.

priorities man.

His programming must have had a weird shift then because he was absolutely begrudging about working alongside living, still-alliance-loyal Elves. But was practically completely okay with the Demons and Undead Elves.

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It was a quick turn around, but I don’t think we ever get his side of the story
for all we know he was plotting to shoot sylvanas in the back once she turned to leave.
he didn’t even get to finish telling her off his lawn when she gave the command to have him killed.

I only regret that he was eaten by ghouls
it would have been peak irony to have forsaken Garithos forcefully server not just an elf but an undead elf who sits on the throne of a human kingdom.

now let’s be honest here
we got like 90% of his lore in like the past 10 years

Desperation makes for weird bedfellows. By this point most of his army is dead, what choice does he have? But he’s still virulently racist towards both Sylvanas (because she is an elf) and Varimathras.

That’s the only excuse for it.

In Chronicles Volume 3, page 90, he’s described as He was leader of the army by chance, not by merit, being the highest-ranking survivor of Lordaeron's military.

That, yes.

This extended lore blurb is from ask the creative devs. Grand Marshal isn’t the title held by any overall commander of a nation’s army, it’s a title several people can have. Garithos was presumably one of them in Lordaeron during the Third War, and the only one to survive.

I know?? I literally say this at the start of the text, since it’s also mentioned in Warcraft 3 and Chronicles.

Missed that bit, my bad. But we are still left with a Garithos who rose to the rank of Grand Marshal before Lordaeron’s fall.

I think you two are just agreeing with each other

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There’s definitely a difference in scale between Alliance and Horde warcrimes.

When it happens from the Alliance, it’s usually performed by a few bad people, not under direct commands from superiors. And they’re largely vilified for it. For example; Garithos, Arthas and the convicts who burnt and looted Taurajo.

-Or- it’s a necessary action taken way too far. The Vulpera caravans were supplying the Horde, who hadn’t so long ago burnt Teldrassil and invaded Stormsong. Was burning the Caravans themselves necessary? Probably not, no. But cutting Horde supplies off was. I’d also argue that we never see any unarmed Vulpera being killed (correct me if I’m wrong). Dalaran’s another example: Expulsion of the Sunreavers was necessary, given what had just happened, but the random killings of civilians wasn’t. And I admit, Jaina and Vereesa got off far too lightly for it. But again; it was a small action performed by a handful of people, outside of central Alliance command (and without Varian’s knowledge).

With the Horde, however, it’s completely different. They almost always fight a campaign with the deliberate, mass extermination of non-combatants in mind. Take, for example, what happened to Hillsbrad and Southshore, Gilneas, Stormsong Valley, Ashenvale and Teldrassil. These actions are incomparable with the above. And that’s not even mentioning the near-extermination of the Draenei, Arrakoa and the people of Stormwind, back in the days of the Old Horde.

Tldr: There’s little moral equivalence between the two factions, even when taking into account those few genuine Alliance warcrimes.

… Have I derailed this thread too much? Possibly.

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It really depends on what part of the Alliance.

Kem is sometimes indifferent to them or doesn’t like them, depends on his mood. And is not shy of hiding that and his disagreement with the current armistice.

But if we talk about Kul’Tirans, Kem hates them, and especially Jaina, which given his race’s backstory with her, is rather understandable. And is openly hostile towards them.

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This is also where the Alliance and Horde greatly differs as while the orcs realise and acknowledge these actions were done by their people at their lowest point after they were led astray by the Legion, they still uphold the ones responsible for these actions as heroes. They venerate the memories of the orcs who slaughtered the draenei, crippled the arrakoa and burnt Stormwind to the ground, some even celebrate their deeds and long for the days when the Horde and the orcs were supreme - even Garrosh did this, in spite of his hatred for anything fel.

You’ll find precious few within the Alliance hailing Garithos as a hero, few who wouldn’t curse Arthas’ very name and even fewer who could even name those faceless convicts that were brought to justice for their actions at Taurajo.

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Yep, very true!

We’ve also forgotten to mention Iron Horde, who performed equally terrible things as the Old Horde - and were quite prepared to murder and enslave the entire Draenei population. All this without a drop of demon blood.

The way I see the Horde:

A misfit collective of (mostly) aggressive but endangered factions who aren’t strange of doing questionable actions because of either unfortunate circumstances or aggressively defending their borders and future.

Collectivised so they can defend themselves from other larger factions such as the Alliance, and to give their factions space for moral luxuries preached by Thrall’s vision of New-Horde Honour so they can slowly steer away from their otherwise vile reputation.

However, these cultural changes don’t go without struggles and the Horde isn’t a stranger to infighting, coupes, and revolutions, as there is still conservative party present who wishes for Horde (or their representative faction’s) glory and conquest, rather than New-Horde ideals of Honour, spiritual healing, and slow collective growth.

Othmar Garithos… such a pity how things turned out.
In countless potential timelines, he was seen as a great hero of his people. Some called him the Alliance’s greatest High King.
What you saw here was one of his worst possible incarnations. A waste.

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