Parses are not a measure of how good a class is.
There are millions of paladins around and many many many less monks, dh, shaman etc.
Not everyone is method who swap char every 10 minutes, so having a higher number of parses from the most played class is more than normal.
That said, 4th is still pretty crappy in a fight with a decent aoe component, which was one of our strenghts.
OK as you clearly need the help to understand this Every other class has a ranged or melee spec they can choose to use and that ranged spec has more pareses then Ret has, Ret is the Only dps spec paladin have do you understand me at this point?
Can we agree on this point? other than WW monk and DK all the other classes have Either a melee spec above Ret in parses and/or a Ranged spec above them in parses.
Using queen azshara as it is a fight where Ret utility is very good and yet this point still stand.
The amount of paladin players is very high considering the paladin discord was the first one that required to get more slots to even have more people able to join.
Il link you numbers now as you seem to be unable to see things.
These are the numbers of parses in warcraftslog on 29des 2019 at 03:08 On Queen Azshara Using over a range of 2 weeks.
Mage: Fire:1,735 Frost: 55 Arcane: 30 1735+55+30=1820 parses of mage dps specs.
Druid: Balance: 1,361 Feral: 61 1361+61=1422 Druid parses.
Priest: shadow: 1,215 as priest have only 1 dps spec 1215 Shadow parses.
Demon hunter: Havoc: 1,097 As demon hunter only have one dps spec 1097 demon hunter parses.
Rogue: Assassination: 996 Outlaw: 241 Subtility: 5 996+241+5=1242 Rogue parses.
Hunter: Beast Mastery: 991 Marksmanship: 48 Survival: 13 991+48+13=1052 Parses for Hunters.
Warrior: Fury: 943 Arms: 45 943+45=988 parses for Warriors.
Warlock: Affliction: 942 Destruction: 884 Demonology: 18 942+884+18=1844 parses for Warlocks.
Shaman: Elemental: 699 Enhancement: 38 699+38=737 Pases for Shaman.
Paladin: Ret: 482 As there is only one dps spec for paladin the number of parses are 482.
Death knight: Frost: 312 Unholy: 51 312+51=363 parses for Death knights.
Monk: Windwalker: 133 As there is only 1 dps spec for monks it is 133 that is the number of parses.
So from Highest to lowest:
Warlock at 1844 parses; Mage at 1820 parses; Druid at 1422parses; Rogue at 1242 parses; Priest at 1215 parses; Demon Hunter at 1097 parses; Hunter at 1052 parses; Warrior at 988 parses; Shaman at 737 parses; Paladin at 482 parses; Death knight at 363 parses and last Monk at 133 parses.
Are you able to see that means that there are only DK and Monk with lower representation of DPS specs on that fight a fight that actually can use the toolkit of a ret paladin.
Do you understand now what i am saying even using your way of thinking about parses matters there are only 2 classes that are less amount of people then ret on a fight that favours the toolkit of ret.
Here yes that is true it has that potential but you could buff it in ways that give us more sustained damage worth 10% dps increase in a decent length fight i was not meaning a flat 10% damage increase without reducing the burst potential that is probably my fault for not communicating that correctly.
That is also 4 expansions ago i would hope it is better now then it was then.
ToS, or Tomb of Sargeras was last expansion, so that would make it 2 years and 1 expansions ago.
Ret was literally last on Warcraftlogs (this also happened in Uldir) so that really sucked.
Yes but so what?
Doesn’t matter if a class has 2 dps specs because 1 will always be better than the other, making that spec a big majority on a number of parses.
This is especially true on progress while later near the end of the tier people will want to switch to a spec that they enjoy more and this will give that class a lot more parses because of that.
Also, we were only talking about melee specs/parses.
I don’t care if Balance druid has more parses because Balance is ranged (and ranged is generally better in EP) because Feral is largely behind Ret, which means less competition for melee spots.
This doesn’t matter at all, like 98% of those players are players who play the game casually or just simply don’t care about mythic progress.
This is true for every class in the game, most people that hardcore raid just don’t have paladins as alts or if they do it’s mostly for tanking or healing, so its mostly ret mains whose parses you can see.
Also bear in mind that Holy right now is one of the 2 strongest healers which makes it even harder for Ret to get a spot, and yet for a majority of guilds it still does get a spot.
Literally does not matter, as most of those parses are from range specs.
EP as a raid gives a lot more advantage towards range specs so it makes sense that they appear a lot more often, also makes sense since Paladin only has 1 dps spec.
Only 3 classes that actually have better melee specs than us and those are Warrior, Demon Hunter and Rogue.
A raid usually has 4-7 melee spots depending on the fight (I’m not gonna take into account guilds like Method who sometimes does bosses with no melee because only like 10 guilds can do that) and with ret being 4th that gives us a fairly good chance of being included.
I mean of course it can be better, I’m not saying I don’t what us to be the best/better but saying that we’re bad is just wrong.
Hopefully the ranged advantage isn’t as big in 8.3, a lot of ranged specs got nerfs and the new raid shouldn’t have that many bosses that favor them.
I understand that you don’t understand what I’m saying.
Melee in WoW have limited spots so with ret having that many parses and the majority of guilds having at least 1 ret in their roster, it actually makes ret a really successful melee in WoW.
There was a ret in the world first kill of Azshara ffs, and also one in the world first of Jaina.
You know it’s really hard to try and change the community perspective on ret and make people take us seriously but this can never happen as long as people playing ret themselves convince themselves that ret is bad.
It’s like people are obsessed with wanting ret to be bad that no matter how good it is, it will always be bad for them.
Method took a player with Narcolies, not a ret.
We have no utility in raid… Oh wait we have the wisdom so we can buff our healer (AHAH joke, just one)
You know that none of what you’re saying makes any sense?
Ret has ton of parses because there are a tons of ret around from the good old days, and people keep it as a main because overall for solo play is second only to a druid, and it’s good in arena and bg too.
That’s it. Has a ton of parses because tons of people have it geared and aside from the top guild in the world, people bring the char with the most gear.
This has nothing to do with ret being good.
It used to be good. Even if DPS was behind, we still provided a ton of utilities spells. In BFA, I get outDPSed by 50% when I’m at 80%. In legion, that never happened to me.
Community perspective is sometimes right. I mean, yeah, why whould you take a ret for MM+ when you can pick a rogue or a DH ? For PU, I feel like ret is like that fat child in sport’s class, that’s picked when he is the last available option.
It’s a non argument. I could also say that many succesful guilds didn’t include any ret at all.
However, ret is outclassed by warrior and rogue in so many aspects. I do think it’s ridiculous that a hybrid spec brings less useful and meaningful utilitaries spells than a warrior or a rogue. I switched to warlock and I feel I provide more utilities to the raid than my ret paly.
Still ret.
They handed him a specific job and he performed it, probably could’ve brought in a bunch of other people but they didn’t.
You don’t take a spec to a boss just because it has good gear, this is especially true when talking about guilds pushing for world first or a really high rank.
Now when talking about guilds that get cutting edge in the last couple of weeks, then yea sure, what you’re saying might be right but even then if you have someone available that’s playing a class that is really good on that boss there’s a higher chance of progressing the boss.
Like 99% of paladin players, and also every other class, will absolutely not kill the last boss of a current raid on mythic, so the fact that there’s so many rets on such a boss is really good for us, even if we have a lot of problems.
You could say that about 90% of other dps specs, why take a hunter when you can take a rogue, why take a monk (that is actually really good) when you can take a DH.
Since only 5 players can do a m+ that makes the choice of who you invite to your group a lot more important.
Whereas in a 20 man mythic raid there’s a lot more leeway on what specs you can bring, so much so as to you can pretty much clear all mythic content and get cutting edge with any comp you want.
Well I could also point out that there’s more guilds that brought a ret than a lot of other melee specs.
I mean I agree but there’s nothing I can do about it to change it.
It’s how Blizzard wants it to be and all we can do is ask them to change it.
I really hate how they’ve nerfed our mobility and said how we are supposed to be a juggernaut that once reaches it target it will totally smash it, but then we have a fight where we barely move and we’re not even close to the top.
Instead of being a juggernaut, we’re in a wheelchair unable to do anything and it sucks sooo much.
I do think rogue’s utility needs to be nerfed, warrior (other than the 10% attack power buff and shout) doesn’t really have any raid useful utility.
I’m not really sure when it used to be better than this, sadly.
It’s pretty much always the same and if for a moment we are really good, Blizzard quickly fixes that.
I still remember that 70% nerf on Convergence of Fates that was only for ret, I was so excited to get that trinket, it hurt my soul to read that nerf, and it was more of a chore to use it after that because of its horrible proc rate.
I doubt that, ret was extremely bad in ToS.
Only other time ret was even close to bad as ToS in recent times was Uldir.
Man when I remember how much fun I had in WoD playing ret and how they just ruined it with Legion’s version.
People say WoD sucked, but at least WoD had good class design for the most part and paired with good raids it really was a good expansion for me.
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