How Modern WoW Killed Its Own Legacy

Community General Discussion
41

Another “mimimi wow was better in the old days, Retail is shi.t mimimi thread” with nerla the same olf heated up agruments.

you nkonw flyuing was indtoduced with BC which was the epeak of wow, did it hurt wow-?no
smwe with lfr and lfg in wotlk, both were the peak point of wow history.

because classis ist just heated up old contant, especyly mop since it alredy the “modern” wow with nearly all modern featured.
so basily modern wowo with just headed uo old contant.

THIS!1

2004 was the inetrnet new land fpr most peole.

today its eve for the new generation a common thing

because flying was etablished (since bc) als the path with mobs everwhere which daze and dismount you were more then annoying.

Technically speaking, yes, but… there was alredy quest helper addons or you akes wowhead for help if you donk know or the quest text was very cryptic

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42

I am still as much in love with as I was 20years ago.

And while not everything is good great I think the game has had major advancements over the years.

I love that blizzard has acknowledged that the games has solo players and theat they gave us our own pillar.
Delvs are incredible fun for me.

Sure the leveling is way shorter then it once was and some miss that but I think it would be best to make longer harder leveling as an option cause many don’t like a long level phase

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43

Totally fair , and I appreciate the honesty. When people say “WoW is dead,” they usually don’t mean literally no one plays it anymore. It’s more about what the game used to be versus what it’s become.

It’s alive in the sense that servers are up, content is being made, and players are logging in. But for many of us, the version of WoW that felt like a living, breathing world , with social depth, danger, identity, and long-term meaning , that version has faded or been stripped away.

So yeah, WoW isn’t “dead” in numbers. But something inside it changed , and that’s what people are mourning.

44

That’s pretty much called getting old and growing up I am afraid.

And also playing a game for a very long time.

45

You’re right that patch cycles and raid tiers have always existed—but I think what’s changed is how fast gear becomes obsolete, and how little long-term value it holds anymore.

Back in earlier expansions, gear upgrades were meaningful and had a longer shelf life—not just because of pacing, but also because the item level scaling was much more gradual.

:bar_chart: Progression from Classic through Legion:

Classic:

  • Molten Core (Tier 1): gear was around item level 66–74.
  • Naxxramas (Tier 3): capped out at about item level 88.

That’s a total item level difference of ~14–20 levels over the entire expansion.

The Burning Crusade:

  • Karazhan (Tier 4): gear was about ilvl 115–120.
  • Black Temple (Tier 6): gear ranged from ilvl 146–151.

Again, across two full tiers, we’re seeing a gap of about 30–35 item levels.

Fast forward to Legion:

  • Emerald Nightmare (Tier 19):
    • Normal: ilvl 850
    • Mythic: ilvl 880
  • Antorus, the Burning Throne (Tier 21):
    • Normal: ilvl 930
    • Mythic: ilvl 960

Now, within just one patch cycle, we see a 30+ item level gap within a single raid—not even counting Titanforging or Warforging.
What used to represent multiple tiers or even full expansions is now compressed into a few months.

:crossed_swords: Gear Used to Last (and Matter)

  • If you were lucky enough to get Thunderfury in Classic, crafted from Molten Core (a Tier 1 raid), it was viable for all of Vanilla, even in Naxxramas.
  • The Warglaives of Azzinoth from Black Temple (T6) were so powerful they often weren’t replaced until Wrath of the Lich King, especially with the haste bonus from equipping both.
  • Trinkets from older tiers remained competitive or BiS even after new content dropped. Examples include:
    • Dragonspine Trophy (T4/Gruul)
    • Darkmoon Card: Crusade
    • Shifting Naaru Sliver from early TBC raids
    • Tsunami Talisman, Reign of the Dead, and others in Wrath

There were also fun quirks:

  • Hunters in Wrath went back to farm Tier 2 from Blackwing Lair for the 3-piece bonus (+15% crit to Arcane Shot), helpful for soloing old content at the time.
  • Mages in TBC farmed Tier 2 for the pushback resistance bonus, which helped in PvP and dueling.
  • Demonology Warlocks held onto Tier 5’s 4-piece bonus deep into Sunwell, since the pet damage bonus stayed strong for demon-focused builds.

Gear had nuance—it wasn’t just about raw numbers.

:arrows_counterclockwise: Power Progression Felt More Natural

I remember guilds clearing Wrath’s Naxxramas (Tier 7) in Black Temple and Sunwell gear from TBC, because the item level jump wasn’t steep—and well-designed gear held up.

Now? A single patch can render an entire raid tier obsolete. Mythic gear from one raid can be equal to or worse than Normal gear from the next.

And that’s not even touching the whole debacle of Mythic+ dungeons, which only exacerbate everything I’ve described—endlessly scaling rewards, weekly resets, and gear that often outpaces actual raid content in both item level and convenience.

So yeah, the rapid scaling and frequent resets make progression feel less rewarding—and gear more disposable.

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46

oh, a Chat GTP answer :roll_eyes:
how creative…

3 Likes
47

It is supposed to be disposable once a new patch/expansion comes out, that’s how it’s always been, even in your own examples that you yourself used.

People lately saying that gear needs to stop being obsolete when a new patch or expansion drops havent been paying attention to the game they play, it’s quite literally always been that way.

48

I think the nature of the business prevents this from happening. For Blizzard, WoW is a milking cow that produces revenue and profit. It needs to keep being that so that Blizzard can continue to justify their existence to their stakeholders, allowing them to pursue new projects that can hopefully turn into great successes.

In that reality WoW becomes a risk-adverse, minimum viable product that just has to offer a solid return on investment, year after year. Blizzard’s job is to keep that business going for as long as they can, whilst making new games on the side that hopefully become their next big thing.

Innovation and risk and daring-do in the gaming industry is increasingly found in the indie scene. Triple A game developers like Blizzard are not the torchbearer in that regard.

Blizzard’s pitch is basically that they make vanilla ice cream – but slightly better than anyone else’s vanilla ice cream.
The question for the customer is of course whether they still want vanilla ice cream, regardless of how good it is, after having had it every day for more than 20 years?
As time goes, more people will say no to that question, but you’ll always have the Candy Crush moms who’ll be happy with it until the day they die. And if there’s a business in that…

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49

Damn people respond fast…way to fast. I will obviously wont repeat what others have said.
Just to add. I am for once glad, gear can be replaced and I can move on to the next tier.
I liked undermine raid but I wouln’t want to do it till midnight mid tier raid because a trinket from there is still my bis.
And good luck if you are changing your mains and have to re-farm older tiers for bis stuff because you didnt play back when it was “current”. :rofl:

50

exactly this.

pokemon is an rpg game, and that has more RPG elements and exploration than WoW

in WoW im gifted gear, showered in it for just logging in most days. gear is not rewarding, its candy , theres too much of it we all feel sick

i wish the game wasnt fixed to this treadmill,
i hope blizzard takes risks going forward

within 2 weeks we have cleared the patchs hardest content… EVERY season.
2week content that took 6 months to develop…

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51

The only thing wow struggles with is the average age of players is likely around 40 now.

And even if people would desperately want to they cannot magicaly relive youth.

Its a decent game offering you cheap entertainment .

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52

Well if you are a RWF participant then sure I guess?
For the casual pleb me, getting CE(IF I get it at all) will take more than 2 weeks…

53

Who is “We” ?

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54

even for RWF players, it shouldnt take 2 weeks.

we are getting gear too quick…
this shouldnt happen on the HARDEST content EVER… it should be couple months at least. in my opinion.

55

Absolutely agree with everything the OP has said. Not played retail myself since December, and I was only playing sporadically before that for the past few xpacs.

The game has turned into a total chore fest, plus there’s only a certain amount of mounts and achieve points I can farm before I have to question the point of getting anymore.

Obviously theres people still subbed to the game so you are going to get people opposed to the OP, but facts don’t lie, subs are nowhere what they used to be.

Unfortunately its too late for Blizzard to change its course of direction and they will continue to churn out as much FOMO content to get people to sub. Its not a game anymore.

56

How can you say NOW is a chore fest when leveling itself back then took months to even complete ?

Back then everything was tedious and a chore, if anything everything is simpler to do now and easier to do in general.

Also subs are nowhere to be because people grow up, play other games, have to deal with IRL things, partners, kids, jobs and other things.

It’s amazing that people just refuse to understand that people have grown and became adults.

3 Likes
57

In fairness to Pokémon, the over-arcing design it has opted for to manage a decades-long running franchise is way way way better than what Blizzard have opted for with Warcraft.

As time goes, Blizzard’s WoW grows into an increasingly convoluted amalgamation that’s more and more off-putting to anyone who hasn’t already been consumed by it for years.

Pokémon on the other hand stays fresh by constantly coming out with new games and shows that have their own little landscapes, characters, and stories, keeping the franchise fresh and relevant to new audiences whilst still captivating veteran fans by tying all the landscapes together into a single universe with a subtle over-arching narrative and deep lore, as well as a form of progression that spans across all games.

It’s a masterclass in how to execute long-term digital franchise development.

Pokémon’s success is very well-earned.

I think Metzen made the remark at Blizzcon that he basically wanted to wrap his story up sooner rather than later, because we’re all getting super old, and if his narrative continues for many more years, there’ll hardly be anyone left to experience the ending.
And there’s a certain tragedy in that, that this 20+ year story narrative is coming to its climax, and most of the players who’ve been along for the ride…they’ve already left.

I do think Blizzard have neglected to ensure that WoW has remained relevant, accessible, and welcoming to new audiences and younger generations. The years long atrocity of the leveling process is a good example of that.
It’s been easier for Blizzard to just double down and continue to cater to their veteran fans. But there’s some buyer’s remorse in that when after 20 years you’re left with an inaccessible game and a dwindling player-base of 40+ year old veterans and no real way to get out of the hole you’ve dug yourself into.

58

What, because I took the time to actually structure my post and put some thought into it? Spent the better part of an hour editing, formatting with --- for clean breaks, and dropping in a few icons? It’s really not that hard. :upside_down_face: :+1:

And even if I had used GPT—why is that instantly a bad thing?

AI is a tool, just like any other. It depends entirely on how you use it. I rarely, if ever, use GPT to just generate things for me. But it’s incredibly useful for research, organizing thoughts, bouncing around ideas, or refining a draft. Honestly, it’s not much different from using spell check or a thesaurus.

It reminds me of how, back in the '80s, the original Tron movie was disqualified from winning special effects awards because the use of CGI was considered “cheating.” Now CGI is a standard tool in every major film.

Nobody’s complaining about:

  • Spell checkers baked into every word processor and web platform
  • Grammarly and other AI-assisted writing tools
  • Calculators for math
  • Writers’ workshops where authors refine their drafts with feedback
  • Or the fact that more than half of WoW’s player base uses addons to automate or enhance gameplay—some of which arguably make encounters easier than intended. Blizzard even designs around them!

So yeah… I’m not sure why you’d take issue with whether I did or didn’t use GPT for a forum post. :sweat_smile:

2 Likes
59

That’s a good point, and yeah , tier upgrades have always been part of WoW. But the key difference is how progression functioned back then compared to now.

In Classic and even through early expansions, older gear often stayed relevant. Certain items from previous raids — even entire sets — were still best-in-slot for some specs well into the next tier. People kept running older raids because the gear had long-term value. You weren’t just replacing everything — you were refining your character.

Now, every new patch completely resets the gear treadmill. Whether the stats are better or not, everyone immediately chases the new tier, because the system is designed to invalidate your old loot entirely. Even if something was technically better, it’s outscaled by sheer item level bloat and upgrade systems.

So yeah, gear progression isn’t new , but how disposable gear has become is very new. That’s the real shift.

60

Which shouldnt be the case, that’s why it’s a new season/new expansion

Why play if you already have the BiS tier sets ? What is there to achieve ?

1 Like