I think we brushed the subject briefly but it came down to storytelling in the end.
Iâm not criticising the debate I just want to know how we got here!
Youâve seen my house walls Iâm hardly in a position to criticise anyone for their passions
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I love your houseâs walls bro donât worry they are built different
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Yeah, from my perspective, I didnât ever argue Blizzard was intentionally being bad/whatever; the crux of the argument was whether the storytelling themes were there or not, authorial intent, etc. etc.
But I think that debate was from when Orlas starting posting. Before then it was just about whether Thornspeakers are drust descendants, then I got riled, and the rest is soon to be forgotten history.
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https://wow.gamepedia.com/Valgarde
History
Valgarde was founded by the humans and[dwarves of Arthas Menethilâs expedition to Northrend after the prince disappeared when he went to search for Frostmourne. Stranded in this frozen continent and without the ships to return to Lordaeron, which had been burned by Prince Arthas, the humans and dwarves built the town and some fortifications around it to protect it. As Valgarde grew, its residents forced the Drakkari and furbolgs back into the Grizzly Hills and beyond, making the region safe enough for brave farmers to till the land.
The remaining dwarves from Muradin_Bronzebeardâs expedition hid within ruins or gathered with humans in Valgarde.
That is in the RPG book I think so it can been retconned but may still be the case.
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Grizzly_Hills_trappers
The trappers are a population of humans who inhabit various outposts in the Grizzly Hills in Northrend. They did not arrive with the Alliance Vanguard and have apparently lived in Northrend since long before the war against the Lich King Alliance forces refer to them as âlocalsâ.
How long they have lived I do not know sadly.
Also found this part at the Trapper Wowpedia link.
Humans in Northrend have been referenced for quite some time. The first victims of the Plague of Undeath were the inhabitants of a human village in the Dragonblight Alexandros Mograine mentioned that âWhole cities have gone missingâ and that âNorthrend is lostâ. Wintergarde Keep was built over an old human village dating back before the Alliance Vanguard arrived to the Dragonblight. It is not known if these belonged to the same society as the trappers or a separate group.
Seems to have had quite some human population Pre-Plague.
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I think if youâre looking at Blizzardâs puddle-deep storytelling and thinking there is any hidden message to any effect at all youâre either someone who is bored out of their mind looking for a forum argument (me btw) or someone practising for their next twitter post
If you look at every single absolutely generic / mundane / common as muck fantasy trope of [good guy player avatars / the factions they belong to] attack [bad guy antagonists] and will yourself to link them to some IRL allusion then you will succeed every time because itâs more or less the ultimate midwit thing to do - smacking your lips and typing out some absolute âtop 10 facts about Super Mario you didnât knowâ core post about how actually, the centaur are themed after Genghis Khan et al or whatever and how the story of the drust (a throwaway race of misc. seasonal antagonists that we will never see again after Slands) actually has a deep / problematic meaning when the truth is far more banal and surface-level
Yes, you can invoke the infamous âdeath of the authorâ - which really comes off as the modern day equiv. of saying âad hominemâ to sound smart on video game forums - but that is again the tool of a verified midwit because you can invoke that at absolute will and at absolutely anything. You can make a mundane post and I can infer some absolutely bizarre meaning to it and then grin knowingly , tapping my massive megamind-like head and linking the /death-of-the-author wiki page
The only sin of the drust / kul tiran storytelling is that fact that it has no interesting nuance - not because a twitter intellectual with an anime avatar once revealed to the masses like a modern day Abraham the secret truth of the implications but because it is not interesting storytelling to read the same âgood guys arrive and kill bad guys (who are evil because they are evil)â. I wish the Kul Tirans were 100% the bad guys, that would make their race way more interesting and make for a lot more hooks for interaction that arenât just yo ho fiddle dee dee Iâm British + a pirate
Also: every single thing every written has to come from something IRL - it is 100% impossible to think some novel thought because we do everything through that one common frame of reference and thatâs fine / normal. Having steam come out of your ears because y can be seen to represent x in some niche way is the kind of mentality that leads to weird posts about Teldrassil from gamers that have accidentally forgotten that theyâre not ageless elves that will live for the next thirty thousand years IRL so probably shouldnât be wasting their much more limited time bemoaning the destruction of some fictional city and the long-abandoned NPC vendors within
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Aww yeah my time to shine 
Cracks knuckles
Kaitylinn is typingâŚ
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My ancestor
RPG so 100% completely and utterly retconned years ago. Same lore also states Valgarde is the only Alliance settlement in Northrend, which is quite obviously wrong. Itâs also nowhere near the location we know Arthas and co. made landfall in Northrend, almost all of which were slaughtered by Arthas when he returned as a death knight.
Had Warcraft been as they set out to make originally, though, Valgarde would have been as displayed in the RPG lore.
Old quote at this point, but if he was referring to the descendants of the Drust, why would he say their descendants? If he was referring to descendants of the Drust or Kul Tiran / Drust hybrids, surely he would say our descendants? But he does not, he says their which very much implies, if not outright confirms, he refers to the Kul Tirans. Which, again, makes sense in context - the Drust and their hybrids would have been born into the Thornspeakers.
King Thoradin also suffers from having to use armour that exists in game. If you look at all of the other NPCs from the same era that were slated to appear in Legion in Valhallas for warriors they are dressed in much the same. But in artwork depicting soldiers of the Arathorian Empire during the final battle of the war, they are dressed in armour from the 900s and onwards, give or take a few decades. They are comparable in style to Gondorian soldiers from the LotR trilogy.
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Never said that, so how about you stop inserting words into my mouth?
Also, when it comes to you, it´s âbanterâ, but when it comes to me, it´s âsassâ and âassuming anyone who disagrees with me is an idiotâ.
Good to know you are a hypocrite.
It started way before I came into the discussion.
Was working on memory, wasnât a jab.
Wasnât the Troll War art made from far before Chronicles or Legion? Either way, thereâs nothing stopping a human from admiring their Arathi ancestors and dressing more tribal; we have the entire warrior Arms artefact weapon to show early human weapon designs, and I wouldnât say its design doesnât match the mixture of furs and plates that Thoradin is portrayed as wearing. Blizzard tends to have a rule that newer lore/portrayals trumps the older ones, and the only Troll Wars art I can find is that one of the human mage calling down an inferno on a bunch of trolls, where the armour isnât really that clear or the main focus (https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/wowpedia/images/1/17/Troll_Wars_magi.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/300?cb=20160317181754 m), and I wouldnât be able to pin to a particular era. Itâs like how Gilneas wasnât portrayed as overtly Victorian until Cataclysm.
There are human on northren
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Activision-Blizzard sure is an american company 
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I donât see the problem, thatâs what I look like IRL
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As for the character size of Kul Tirans, a cool thing to mention is;
Thrall and Varian Wrynn are the same size, according to tons of canon comics/books.
Humans are pretty yolked!
yeah but those comics are the same ones that have generic human footmen looking like the hulk in space marine armor, and hellscreamâs head the size of a peanut on his mountainous torso, so i take these artistic interpretations with a grain of salt
Youâre telling me you donât look like that?
Everyone I know is built like that.
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They say roleplay what you know and thatâs why I only play 8 foot tall jacked alpha males
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Varian is in fact a manlet.
Source:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/561287824964452363/796336025608781845/unknown.png
5â2" mofo.
So really, Kul Tirans are just⌠6â0.
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