I appreciate that people like different things, the problem is when people want to force old ideals on others and make the game slow and boring that I object.
And what about all the people that don’t want it. I fail to see the logic in that statement. Ruin the game for the majority of players to suit some minority that hanker for a by gone age.
The game has moved on, it got better and better every expansion, improved more and more. Classic belongs in the past, it has no place in modern WoW. It’s great it exists as a bubble for those who want to play it. I’m currently enduring it with a friend and everything in the game makes me want Retail and appreciate Retail all the more for how it’s ten times a better game with better systems.
Mythic plus is PuG content. The queue system is there for normal and heroic dungeons. You couldn’t auto queue mythic dungeons any more than you could Mythic raids. Keys are from 2+ to whatever you can push, it’s not even suitable for an autoqueue system. There is no sense of community in PuGs, there is a sense of community in guilds and actual communities that have a common goal. Classic isn’t any different tbh. It’s just more of a pain in the posterior to do any group content.
Classic lags a lot anywhere there are large numbers of players. It’s usually only in major cities, I have not been near Silithus so I can’t comment what it’s like there. I remember the old days when Orgrimmar lagged hard and eventually blizzard started introducing phases.
I’m all for a busier feel with people around you but not with the extreme measures you propose which will just kill the game.
I just don’t believe that the problem is the game anymore I think alot of the modern playerbase has simply grown acustom to not talking. And I don’t think that’s something you will restore in wow
And they won’t get rid of phasing unless this games population dies that much
I was no more social back in vanilla then I am today. Neither forms of wow changed me. That’s just how it is.
If anything I’m actually more social these days in my day to day wow life then I was. Now that I can get involved with discords surrounding the game and have that communication without the expense of feeling forced to be grouped or doing specific content I can chat to people as I do my own thing.
Pugs actually reduce the weight assossiated with things
I’ve been in many guilds doing the same content I do yet I will pug before I join a key.
The weight a player can feel from feeling needed to perform well and optimally among people who will recognise them as a player and that of the pug world who will not remember him is at times heavier among players who will recognise you.
The stress you can put on yourself in such a circumstance could simply hinder your ability to play. I very much do become anxious at the concept of messing up Infront of players who I know will recognise me
So I pug alot to avoid that anxiety as I feel in the crowds of Pugs people won’t remember me or care who I am which takes away that position.
I have my own discord, a guild discord and the Fortune Favoured (FF) Discord and they are hives of activity that I can barely keep up with. FF in particular, blink and you’re a good 100 messages behind. Leave it a couple of hours and sometimes you can’t catch up xD
Modern day WoW is why I’m content being on an RP server, there’s a community and you will see familiar faces pop up here and there.
That said you should deffo have an interest in RP if you plan on playing on one, it’s half the experience is joining RP.
Otherwise find a guild with a community you click with, personally we speak more on discord than in-game but that’s because we play other games than just world of borecraft.
Not only while doing other games, you can have the app on your phone, people use it out and about, or at work or commuting etc. It’s much more social and inclusive IMO.
Yup, I used to share pictures from work mostly because I spendt a good chunk snuggling the local cats.
It’s just a good app to stay social on without it being a social media thing like twitter or facebook.
Facebook for close friends and family, twitter for whatever I use twitter for and that’s my social media.
Used to use Tumblr and DeviantArt for the art communities, but former is a god forsaken place and the new layout on DA makes my head hurt.
Insta is a terrible place unless you’re out and about being social alot, only ever go there for work related subjects lmao
We’ve already been through this discussion and I already moved past it. How it is even possible for you to lower us back down into this back-and-forth nonsense is completely beyond me.
Blizzard screwed up. They changed one game into another game, and now the people who want the original game want that other game changed into the original game, and these two groups have a really hard time reconciling. My position on this situation is clear, yours is clear, we’re never going to agree. Let’s move past it and discuss how we can get the best of both worlds to the extent that it’s possible. After all, the goal must be to make the game more fun for all its fans.
Dear God, I can’t even express how much I disagree. I disagree so much it feels borderline offensive, even though I know it’s not meant to be.
There is a sense of community in PuG’s provided that the group of potential PuG players is small enough and the experience of playing with them long and common enough that you have a chance to get to know them. That is the town effect, that is what Classic has that retail does not. You know the feeling - you say you do - but you obviously have no idea why it happens whatsoever. Then again, almost no one does.
It really doesn’t.
There is no phasing on Classic and on some realms there were thousands of players in Silithus. Through optimisations it was only slightly laggy, but it worked. Orgrimmar never lags. It did when we were all using 2004 PC’s, but we’re not anymore.
EDIT: Look at this:
Look how stupid many players there are. It ends up lagging eventually, but in vanilla it crashed repeatedly.
Well Classic restored it instantly just fine, so you’re provably incorrect.
The trick is not to remove phases, the trick is to keep the phases the same. That’s what realms do, and that is why the realms model was chosen over the CRZ model when the game launched. Do you think that the original Blizzard, the creators of Battle.Net and Guild Wars, which works on a CRZ based system, couldn’t do this?
Of course they could. They knew what they wanted, and CRZ and megaserver wasn’t it. Simple as that.
I don’t agree with your sentiment at all although it seems you have to have the final say on it and I’m not allowed to reply. Those that want Classic can go and play it without ruining the modern game for the rest of the playerbase who prefer Retail. Removing all the benefits of Retail are not going to improve the game IMO.
There is no community in PuGing, it is mostly I will keep my head down, my mouth shut and hope not be removed. Group finder/LFD was the great improvements made to WoW. I actually got to do the dungeons and see them at the right level. I found people very toxic when I started playing.
It is a myth in Classic. Most groups form, say very little to each other, complete the content and go their separate ways. There is just a huge tedious amount of time wasted in Classic forming a group, travelling and completing the dungeon. Doing dungeons in Classic is an ordeal, it’s not fun and takes a huge amount of time. Spamming multiple channels trying to form groups is not fun or a good way to spend my time, travelling for up to 20 minutes to get to the location is not fun, waiting on others to get there is not fun. Just so that we can do a dungeon. The system is archaic and unproductive. I’m very glad group finder exists in Retail.
There is lag in Classic, I’ve played it a considerable amount over the last week or two and lag is definitely a factor, especially when people are gathering in SW for the head to drop. You can’t even use the flightmaster or get near him. Incidentally I have never claimed there is phasing on Classic but I do remember when they introduced breaking down Org into phased sections. There isn’t really a lot to Classic. It’s a fairly small game these days.
I understand fully what gives the community feeling, we just don’t agree on it. You want something I don’t. As I said, I want to have non CRZ end game, I would be happy with all CRZ gone unless you group with someone but I think that is unrealistic seeing as that was a response to levellers feeling alone, something I considered a luxury back in TBC/Wrath etc etc. Remove WM so that we aren’t sharded and dial back on all the phasing players away from each other unless it’s for storyline purposes. That will give the community feeling back where we get to see each other again. Removing flying, portals etc is just creating huge inconvenience for people, that’s not improving gameplay, that’s making it worse. I like that no matter what time of day or night I can find a group for things because of CRZ.
However, I don’t think we will see WM removed, I don’t think it’s even practical at this stage. All realms are ‘Normal’ and people can opt in and out of PvP. So I think there is little hope of feeling more connected to people from my own realm. They can’t really remove CRZ because WM is based upon it. Blizz care about the world looking busy although ironically some shard make me feel more alone.
The problem that I have with this is the sheer number of times I’ve responded to it. You’ve definitely had your say to me and to the world - to suggest otherwise is utterly ridiculous.
Again I must give the same old hoary speech: Delivering classic is not the same as delivering the old WoW experience. Classic is done to death and explored fully, which is leading to what effectively amounts to exploits. The game is so metagamed and played out that raids are going down instantly and events and requirements are known years in advance. Everyone already know all the solutions to all the problems and know all the fights and how to solve all the challenges in all of them.
That’s not a world of danger and mystery, like Classic promises to be and was when it came out, and many of us want that.
… wow, okay.
You sure seem to play it an awful lot for someone who doesn’t want WoW to be like that.
So we agree, and the solution that Blizzard has come up with is reducing the amount of zones you go through, thus reducing the map size. If you wanna go to the older expansions, obviously CRZ is needed, but it shouldn’t be needed for the BfA+Shadowlands experience. The map is made small enough that a single realm can cope with it.
This design solves the map size issue without removing content, and that’s precisely the kinds of compromises I want to talk about. It’s not unrealistic at all - they’ve almost done all the work already!
And you continue on agreeing with me when you say you don’t.
I think CRZ to the extent of being “invited to another realm” is just going to have to be a fact of life at this point. That’s one of the things we just can’t rid of because people have relationships across servers.
Flying and portals means you’re not in the actual world and you’re certainly not persistently moving around it, and thus whether it’s CRZ or not becomes irrelevant. But we’ve beaten this horse to death as well, so let’s just agree to disagree.
I find Classic a grindfest with lots of things to make it as slow and time consuming as possible. Levelling is a chore, the quest are mostly just to direct you to places to grind mobs, under the guise of getting drops that are fairly infrequent.
The lack of tag sharing makes it fairly antisocial, the nabbing ore, chests, stealing mob tags etc is rife. We have seen that kind of anti social behaviour return in parts of Retail as well with dailies being used for Uldum and Vale quests.
I have spent more time that I would have liked in Classic. As far as I’m concerned I had my rose tinted goggles moments when Classic launched and I did my Horde hunter but a friend asked me to play with him recently and it was his game of choice. So we are levelling a couple of Allies together. I have more addons for Classic than I do for Retail to try and get some basic functions back.
Flying is amazing, it’s the most immersive form of travel, I get to control where I’m going and I can take in the views, take screenshots, appreciate the landscape etc. Afk-ing on a flightpath is not a good way to spend your time, in Classic it is even worse as it takes so long to fly anywhere. At least I have a second monitor these days and don’t have to actually alt tab out. I see no connection being afking to travel and community no. I do a huge connection between being sharded away from my fellow Draenor residents, being put in with people from other realms and the lack of community because we don’t see each other anymore.
You are entited to your own , I’ll take classic and the way Failzard handled it over retail anytime, good not all the people went or loved classic imagine the horror if most of the people from retail would have take on classic same trash community , no thanks happy x-pack and don’t forget to stay between each others.
Back on topic it is just a place i spent some time for a moment some period when i move on for something else i do not look back.
The mere thought of me being in these triangle graphic hell, taking orders from some cocky “veteran officers pass it all gUyS” so their buddy could roll some gong makes me want to
I could never be a classic player, even in 2004 when I was 13 I had some self respect
It needs to be acknowledged that the main contention here is between one form of travel and another form of travel that is perceived as restrictive and boring.
I’ve been playing death stranding recently and I have not witnessed a single person saying “this game needs flying”. There are countless other games that dont have flying and nobody asks for it.
The issue is the connection to the environment and the value that is placed upon that. If the gameplay on the ground or on flight paths was fun gameplay, then nobody would be looking to avoid that.
I dont even think ishayoe ever said they wanted flight paths. The entire reason this was brought up, was the town effect. The incidences of running along on your merry way and spotting someone you recognise.
How often do you think you run from the flight path to rage fire chasm these days?
In the past, you might have made that run and saw many names you recognise on the way. That simple feedback works on our underlying feeling of belonging. It’s part of our instincts.
I see a load of players in boralus every time I hearth, but I don’t recognise a single one of them. As a result o no longer even look at player names. Also, if I say anything, I go ignored. So for all intents and purposes, they aren’t there. The game feels empty due to things like this.
When I talk annobosy responds, I feel just that little bit more lonely. I felt that way when the community I was in stopped responding. I felt that way when i was posting in their discord and my posts would go completely ignored and they would start a whole other conversation. It feels even worse on discord because those posts stay there. I cant just assume everyone missed it.
Classic wasnt perfect. Tagging was bad back then. It was certainly anti social. Blizzard have improved a lot of things. But some things have been badly diminished.
It feels very cruel and mean and dismissive when someone says “you have classic, go there”.
I dont think that is what people want.
I think if I was on draenor, I would feel elated if I was running along questing annual spotted a blood elf named “punyelf”. Either in general chat or in the world.
But that would probably never happen.
Blizzard have to cross realm or shard or phase or whatever because people are running around and dont see anyone. They feel the world is empty. Theres nobody running around. Because they are all flying or using portals and because the world is huge. Do we really think bfa zones will be more lively when it’s the main levelling path?, no, there will be hardly anyone running around because the fastest way to level is to fly.
I know full well, I am levelling a on alt through pandaria and I cant imagine taking it the slow way.
Once flying is opened up in draenor and legion, etc. I worry that i will feel like i want to speed it up and will fly in those places too and that incidental journey on the ground will be lost. Because i will want to fly to make levelling quicker.
But that raises the question… how many people are levelling through those zones because they want to be in those zones? Or how many are actually just trying to rush through?
How do blizzard get people to actually spend time in the world? They make the world something that people want to do. Not something they have to do.
I think… the level squish is good. The bringing all players into the same starting zone and for levelling is good. Having more players to get into the current zones more quickly is good. Having no flying to start with is good. Dont know what happens when flying comes… but maybe they can find a way to make staying.on the ground engaging and fun? Reducing cross realm thing is good. It would certainly.be good if they reduced the NEED for grouping up, and at the same time make it easier for people to make a group if they want to. Communication should be key, so I think an automated system is bad. People need to be able to pay attention and respond to each other. Here also needs to be more responsibility. It should not be so easy to just kick someone from a dungeon group. But also, not so easy to afk.
A game that does not have flying can’t be compared to a game that has flying. Many modern games without flying have fast travel networks. Only Vanilla/Classic did not have flying every other expansion in the World of Warcraft did.
As I have said repeatedly. The effect in towns is a problem caused by not being on your own realm any more. We are all sharded in WM on and off and that is all CRZ. Wanting to destroy flying, portals and travelling will not help people be more visible to each other in towns and out and about. Being realm based will. However those days are long gone.
Isha believes very differently and is entitled to do so. We have agreed to differ because I would hate the game they want to turn Retail into and they aren’t happy with the game Retail currently is. To be honest, Blizz can never actually please everyone, no matter what they do.
People hang out in Orgrimmar. You see a lot of the same people around. I give out free cats. But outside that you get fragmented into War Mode on/off and mixed into other realms. Though turning War Mode off I see a lot of people from my own server instead of some random shard, and on Alliance when I’m always War Mode off I’ve run into the same people many times in Boralus. Had people from one guild all hanging out on one specific fence and there was usually someone there.
I will go War Mode off for Shadowlands so there might be more of a community vibe then.
