You mean the pain and hell of having a warr + ret/enh/ww on you making sure you dont get to cast one VT and if they interrupt you, you are basically dead? Yep.
And then you get a cast off JK SPELL REFLECT
2 Likes
AND if you actually cast one without getting interrupted, reflected, stunned, etc. - poof, dispell. I’m so glad for the newest talents wich give us at least some room
Ele is less represented than rogue because shamans have 3 viable specs played equally and rogue has only 1 viable spec. Of course all the people playing the rogue will play their only viable spec while the shamans will be split across 3 specs.
When looking at class representation (3vs3):
- Paladin 20.5% (1103)
- Priest 18.7% (1006)
- Mage 11.7% (631)
- Warrior 10.8% (578)
- Shaman 9.6% (518)
- Druid 8.0% (429)
- Rogue 6.7% (358)
- Monk 4.8% (259)
- Hunter 2.9% (158)
- Warlock 2.6% (142)
- Death Knight 2.5% (132)
- Demon Hunter 1.1% (57)
So looking at the top positions, mage and warrior are about the same. Shaman is equally split between healer/caster/melee. Priest and Paladins are 60% Healer specs and 40% Caster/Melee specs.
So looking at the top classes I would say we have about an equal split between melee and ranged.
I dont know what numbers you are looking at, but 2,1k+:
Fire mage has 1065
Arms warr has 1005
Shadow priest has 655
Retri has 636
Monk (WW) has 505.
Disc priest has 1161.
Holy paladin has, - wait for it - 1326! THE SINGLE HIGHEST REPRESENTED SPEC IN THE GAME. BY QUITE THE MARGIN.
So looking at top classes I would say we have some extremely clear winners when it comes both to healing and to DPS.
3 Likes
So for the high tiers we have:
Fire and arms: 1 melee and 1 caster.
Shadow and retri: 1 melee and 1 caster.
Monk is 8th position I was only commenting on the first 5 spots. There is also the druid which is played majorly as a caster if we look at lower positions. But looking at the meta classes right now, we have both casters and non casters.
Also about counting the healers as caster, healers can only be casters so I don’t think we can compare it that well.
I’m not saying balance is fine. Holy paladin and disc priest are overwhelmingly strong and they need nerfs. Paladins, only 1 class is as numerous as the last 6 spots: DH, DK, Warlock, Hunter, Monk and Rogue COMBINED.
But the distribution of casters and non casters in the top class spots isn’t skewed towards something.
Also the data was taken from 3vs3 2400.
I have also checked the brackets from 2100-2600 but the % distribution of classes is the same.
maybe dont stun when the healer has dispell rdy? Dont stun without having the healer in cc or silencing him by yourself ever.
hm i can understand why its frustrating when 2 melees sit on you whole game but idk since shadowlands you have so many tools to still do dmg with insta dots, voidform, dp etc.
In general both melees and casters are pretty strong right now. Ele/boomy/sp/fire are all 4 really good specs right now but arms/ret/ww/enh are equally strong.
he always checks class representation instead of spec representation idk why but its stupid.
Then enlighten us, why we should ignore class representation.
because a class which has multiple roles will always have higher representation. Especially if both roles are strong.
When looking at class represenation you could think that priests or paladins are way stronger in arena than mages. While firemage for example is stronger than ret or sp currently.
In arena you dont just play “priest” or “paladin” you play a certain spec.
But only looking at representation is pretty stupid in general. There are so many factors to look at.
Mages for example are generally way more played than ww for example.
When other many melee specs are good people dont reroll as much as when only 1 melee spec is good and many more examples.
If they are outliners(like hpala and firemage) you can most likely tell that there is something wrong. Other than that i think the game is pretty balanced and represenation numbers dont really show that much.
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the weaknesses of casters is random mongoloid cleave
3 Likes
You’re missing the whole point of my post, and the whole point of this thread.
Even though you have many tools, all of them have weaknesses and counters. SP is one of the casters with the biggest weaknesses as a results of the stuff I’ve said. I’ve pointed out pretty clearly that by that post I don’t mean SPs are weak.
The amount of people who can play a certain spec is limited by the amount of people who are playing the class.
If I have a class with 3 viable specs and a class with 1 viable spec, the max amount of people which can be split between the specs is equal to the amount of people playing that class.
Let’s take an example:
Shaman representation 9.6% (518) and mage representation 11.8% (632).
But when we look at specs:
Out of those 518 shamans at high rating:
- Elemental 38.8% (201)
- Restoration 33.6% (174)
- Enhancement 27.6% (143)
Ann out of the 632 mages:
- Mage Fire 96.5% (610)
- Mage Frost 1.9% (12)
- Mage Arcane 1.6% (10)
People will be split between the viable specs of the class, you won’t magically have 3 times more people if you have 3 viable specs. You are limited by how many people play a certain class. Currently, shamans are played by 7% of people and mages by 8% throughout the game.
because a class which has multiple roles will always have higher representation.
So you are saying that the priest deserve its representation because it has multiple roles, but somehow that doesn’t apply to monks, druids and shamans who also have multiple roles?
Mages for example are generally way more played than ww for example.
Yes mages are played by 33% more people than monks, and there are 2.4 times more mages than monks in pvp.
i think people in general play specs and not classes so when a shadowpriest is underperforming people will most likely switch to mages/lock whatever caster is viable instead of swtiching to disc. While healers tend to play the strongest healer and not the strongest spec of their class.
This is definitely the case on higher ratings since switching roles is way harder on higher ratings than switching from sp to lock for example.
priest have multiple strong roles while monk only has 1 viable spec right now.
Shaman in general is always way less played than priest since ele and enh are generally not very popular arena specs people like to play.
I dont understand why you dont like to look at specs instead of classes? it makes much more sense?
Also pls put a rating filter if you want to talk about serious representation.
i think people in general play specs and not classes
So how are you feeling is more important than what data shows
priest have multiple strong roles while monk only has 1 viable spec right now.
Mage and warrior also have only 1 viable spec, why are they doing fine?
I dont understand why you dont like to look at specs instead of classes? it makes much more sense?
Makes sense when you are not coming with any arguments?
Shaman in general is always way less played than priest
Yes, shamans are played by 7.1% of people while priests are played by 7.3% of people globally. That is clearly why in pvp there are 2 times more priests than shamans. How could I not see something so simple.
the data does not show that this is not the case? Just look at people playing at higher ratings. You most of the time see players stuck with one role. They are healer, caster or melee main.
because monk is way less popular than mages and warriors for pvp.
just tell me why looking at specs is not making any sense?
pvp participation does not mean globally.
https://luduslabs.org/sotl/second-month-of-shadowlands
a good insight of pvp participation. pretty up to date. it clearly shows how “good” windwalker or ele are really despite being not popular in terms of raw numbers.
Your data is just useless. According to it we need to buff monks, druids and shamans while all 3 classes have s tier specs which would destroy the balance if they would be buffed. Also you could argue that there are only half as many mages as paladins so mages need a buff too? lol
See how bad looking at class representation is?
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They have none all the casters are op.
because monk is way less popular than mages and warriors for pvp.
And why are they more popular in pvp than the rest of the game? Population of monk is 6%, population of mage is 8%. While in pvp it’s 4.8% for monk and 11.8% in pvp. Lower or higher representation show us that people will flock to the stronger classes and not play the weaker ones.
Priest is also less popular than warriors or mages, shouldn’t the priest have the same representation as the monk?
because a class which has multiple roles will always have higher representation.
And weren’t you saying that class with multiple roles should have higher representation, or are you just defending your priest.
just tell me why looking at specs is not making any sense?
I already explained why, learn to read.
pvp participation does not mean globally.
Global participation shows us what people play if FOTM wouldn’t be a factor. If a class is played globally by 7.5% of the people but it’s in pvp its representation is only 2%, than it clearly shows that people don’t want to play that class in pvp because it is weak.
There’s a lot of very strong casters and melee at the moment. Arms, WW, ret, fire, shadow, balance and elemental are all S tier.
It’s a relatively even spread, in my experience.
Yes.
Can’t really generalize like this, different classes and specs work differently.
That doesn’t really work anymore though since melee will have VERY high uptime on casters, unlike in the earlier versions of the game, where a warrior would literally never reach a mage, for example.
Plenty of specs still do.
That’s been a thing since cataclysm when they normalized stamina and int/str/agi on gear.
That’s your opinion. I don’t think I’ve ever felt as helpless as whenever we queue into shadow/arms/rshaman.
because mage dominates pvp for the last 15 years in every season?
priest has currently 2 with holy almost 3 viable pvp specs while monk has only one. What is so hard to understand? Just because there are more priests than monks doesnt mean that sp or disc is better than windwalker?
Specs like disc are also generally high representated because if you want to play a setup based comb like rmp, jungle etc. you NEED to play disc in the past while if you want to play a melee cleave you can easily play something else than ww for example.
no you didnt lol
i was saying thats the reason priest and paladin are on the top. Because they have 2 very strong and popular s tier specs in 2 different roles.
Just look at the link i send you. It explains everything pretty good and shows why you are wrong
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no you didnt lol
Let me refresh your goldfish memory.
The amount of people who can play a certain spec is limited by the amount of people who are playing the class.
If I have a class with 3 viable specs and a class with 1 viable spec, the max amount of people which can be split between the specs is equal to the amount of people playing that class.
Let’s take an example:
Shaman representation 9.6% (518) and mage representation 11.8% (632).But when we look at specs:
Out of those 518 shamans at high rating:
- Elemental 38.8% (201)
- Restoration 33.6% (174)
- Enhancement 27.6% (143)
Ann out of the 632 mages:
- Mage Fire 96.5% (610)
- Mage Frost 1.9% (12)
- Mage Arcane 1.6% (10)
People will be split between the viable specs of the class, you won’t magically have 3 times more people if you have 3 viable specs. You are limited by how many people play a certain class. Currently, shamans are played by 7% of people and mages by 8% throughout the game.
i already told you why your argument makes no sense.
cba anymore you are just too stupid it seems