You could´ve looked for a better raid instead of complaining about people that are unwilling to learn?
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The hardest part now is not accidentally killing them before they’ve been pulled into position.
Who are you expecting people to put in effort to look for a group that suits them?
HELLO?
Just give him the gear he obviously deserves already.
Actually it should just be mailed to you once you hit 70.
Full T6 gear.
… The only hard thing was people all ignored mechs in solarian and we have to kii her with 10 people… And still that was not that hard 
Am i happy now ? ofc not ! Blizz killed our sense of being rewarded after tk and ssc !!!
I’m not sure how we went from this
We’re going to implement the previously-mentioned adjustments to Morogrim Tidewalker, Lady Vashj, and Kael’thas Sunstrider with weekly maintenance the week of December 14.
to this
Tempest Keep and Serpentshrine Cavern are now in their post-nerf state (Original Burning Crusade version 2.4.3).
I’d have been fine with the patch 2.1 mechanics nerf, but applying the patch 2.4.3 version so early is a bad joke
6 Likes
Agreed with this.
And especially because, once again, the communication of the thing they were about to do was abysmal.
First they announce the initial nerfs less than 24hrs before it’s supposed to go live.
Then they get backlash over that and delay those nerfs.
Then when they implement those nerfs they’ve suddenly added on way more nerfs ontop of it and once again they announce that extremely late.
It’s such a lack of respect to the players when the communication is this bad.
Been on farm since week 2. I enjoy that it is over faster so I can do other stuff while waiting for next tier.
Part im mostly glad about is the trash nerfs.
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Glad our roster has like 32 people in it else we would probably die out from people quitting due to boredom over the holidays with almost 1hour less of raid content
The guild has 2 teams, the main team competes for realm first, the casual team I’m in missed some end bosses we supposedly have on farm because of many people not showing up > really bad comp > even worse execution. Now with the nerf hopefully that won’t happen again. In that post I lament not joining the hc team despite probably having the “skills” to do so.
Look, I had 3 guilds fall apart around me in p2. When I finally got into a stable one, it turns out it has 9 mage players spread among 2 teams, all of us trying very hard for the “better” team slots. It is not unusual for our raids to have top 4 dps slots on logs as mages and then other dps far behind. I’m not even exaggerating, look at my logs, they are all public.
And you may laugh and say “excuses” all you want, I don’t think this is exactly a standard situation.
Anyway, I self analyzed my posting over last 2 days and applied for a hc spot next week. You people are right, I should raid with players who try as hard as me.
Did not enjoy this, and highly doubt I’ll have the patience to faceroll this content until T6 hits, It does not make any sense, a game should be somewhat of a challenge and its getting easier every week when people progress and gear up anyway. They overdid it.
4 Likes
So basically what I’m gathering is:
The people who still enjoy the raids don’t enjoy the nerfs while the people who mainly want to finish up their gear before next phase and the people who want to get done with their raid asap to do other stuff, like the nerfs.
I guess that makes a lot of sense and goes back to my original question, raidwise, is it enjoyable? It seems not since you just want to get out of there asap since you’ve grown tired of it after 12+ weeks, which is totally fine.
To those talking about it being challenging, no I agree it wasn’t before either, but at least it felt like a boss and there was time/reason to actually try to minmax. I’ve also been clearing 10/10 since week 2 and I’m not tired of them, it’s the one and only thing about wow that I actually enjoy 
What do you mean here mate? I’m ‘whining’ BECAUSE I enjoy playing lol. They removed any fun from playing so I’m asking if other people agree. So you enjoy this version of the raid, that’s totally cool, we all like different things 
Yea most of us have been clearing 10/10 for a long time, but I still think it’s fun. We had just started to bring alts into the main raid and trying new comps etc too so was enjoyable, now its not. Should I not care when the only fun thing in the game I play is no longer enjoyable? lol I mean I’m playing to have fun, and paying a sub. Now they remove that fun for the next month and I’m ‘whining’ because I ask if I’m the only one who’s not a fan? You’re being silly
The biggest problem with the braindead easy nerfed content now is people will fall asleep and it will actually be harder come Hyjal and BT to wake people up again. Also as said above people might change their comps to 3 healers or less and then you need to scale the number of healers up again for P3. Idk about your raids, but healer is already a hard enough role to find, you can’t just toss some people away now and expect them to be back from the bench again when they’re needed.
Well no wonder?
Arcane Mages on single target (Short) fights are not really something most other classes are able to compete with.
I really hope you’re not trying to GOTCHA me by saying your DPS as Arcane Mage is higher than me as Spriest.
But I guess that’s a flex… Somehow.
Yeah lol and look at how many PI’s, BL’s (lust swapping) and innervates they probably get to be top logs. Arcane is a crutch spec that needs a lot of support to shine.
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I haven’t done neither of the raids since my guild will be doing them later tonight, so I can’t give you an answer at this point of time.
But from a perspective of a “8/10” player like me (a.k.a. the filthy casual or dad-gamer, as most of the people on this forum like to address us), I can tell you that I’m looking forward to the nerfed state of the bosses. It doesn’t have anything to do with the loot or prestige, like everyone is pointing out.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but from what I can tell, players of 10/10 pre-nerf guilds don’t look on these changes benevolently since they are going to ruin their already-trivial challenge in T5 content? If something has been already trivialized to the maximum for them, how can it be trivialized even more? I don’t get it, really.
As well, since none of these players have been mentioning anything about the social aspect of the game, it seems to me that none of them are here for the sake of having fun by playing with another 24 players, but only for orange and pink numbers on logs and pretty pixels that drop of bosses. And in that regard, it looks like as they’re being terrified by the thought of some casual(s) having the same gear and same bosses killed as they have done 3 or 4 months ago.
I’m not sure whether you’re aware, but there are a lot of casual and social guilds that have their own mindset and are not committed to playing this game as much as parsers and farmers. Those guilds don’t have the privilege to min-max raid composition, purchase the best possible enchants, gems or consumables. Is that a reason to put them on bonfire on these forums?
And before someone mentions that 6 hours of raiding is enough for everyone to clear both of the raids, I must say that is not entirely true since the preparation for any tier content begins long before that tier has even being released. And how you prepare for it - by farming the content that’s available for you. And yet again, we go back to the time-commitment problem that I mentioned in the paragraph above.
So instead of having the mindset that you (this pronoun has been used as plural in this post) are above everyone else, pause for a second and think about it - TBC is not meant to be a HC game, but rather nostalgia-reliving game. And the same thing was meant for Classic and the same thing will be for WotLK.
The Classic trilogy is meant to be playable by everyone, both HC players and casuals, and at the end everyone will have the same gear and the same content cleared. The parses are just the numbers that will be forgotten very quickly. Nostalgia of playing the game is the thing that stays.
Stop hating and try to have fun! 
2 Likes
Lol at calling buying enchants, gems and consumables a ‘privilege’.
Just play the game and gold falls from the skies… you can’t expect to only raid and be any good at the game.
If you can’t make a ‘time commitment’ then MMORPGS are not for you.
Nostalgia btw for a casual is never completing a raid and looking at players who do in awe.
That’s why our healers, me included all have an offspec equally T5 geared to run as dps still and get healer loot if needed, but that obviously is not the norm.
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Yes, i am happy.
After 30-40 wipes on Vash because we’re about 10% short on DPS (lacking optimal group buffs because we’re a casual guild who doesn’t enforce specs) - we where unable to keep the mobs in phase 2 under-control well enough, meaning the phase 3 transition was literally mudering us a lot.
Last night we executed out tactics like we always do and 1-shot her.
I don’t necessarily agree with nerfs to the mechanics, but since people are too precious about #NoChanges and refuse to lobby for making non-stackable-party-buffs raid-wide instead (Which literally happens in WOTLK), it means that casual guilds who don’t have perfect raid setups are going to be behind on DPS and even if they execute tactics perfectly, they get overwhelmed by DPS checks.
Our guild didn’t enforce world buffs in classic either - but we got server-first in the “no world buffs” catagory in WoW Logs, despite being considered mid-tier at best.
Due to losing players we had to merge with one of the top 3 guilds on the server, who did enforce full WBufss and consumes. Turns out most of them where very, very bad at the game and doing +40% more DPS lets you ignore mechanics.
And when i say they where bad, i mean “wiping on the living side of Gothik” bad.
I commend you on writing the first counter argument to the nerfs that is actually well written, has some valid points, and isn’t an outright silly troll post.
I personally don’t think there is anything wrong with being casual, and there is certainly no shame at being stuck at 8/10. I was stuck on that for about an entire year back in the real TBC, and went through about 3 different guilds until I finally got those kills (and back then we used to raid like 4 days a week too! yikes!). I don’t think that anyone is essentially knocking your opinion or thoughts regarding the content (assuming you ignore the trolls, that is), but I would love to hear back from you after you have done the now nerfed content and see what you think.
Personally I consider myself fairly casual too, granted, I have been 10/10 since week one, and only raid 1 night a week (2 if I fancy playing my alt). I can also tell you I have 0 interest in orange and pink parses, and rarely look at them, I just simply enjoy the content and teamwork involved for what it is. Of course others in my raid do care about them, and we often have to make changes and compromises, and speed runs to accommodate that, and I am totally fine with that.
These aren’t just a few “helping hand” style nerfs, they are a complete gutting of the content, down to the trash mobs having nearly half the health of what they used to have. I also don’t think it’s fair to say that you “don’t have access to the best gems and enchants” because I think you do, everyone is on a level playing field in that regard.
You also mention that eventually you think casuals will indeed clear all the content eventually, and I agree with you in that regard, the preparation to kill Vashj and Kael does indeed begin all the way back in rep grinding for heroics, and it’s that long character developing and advancing journey that in my eyes makes TBC such a great expansion. If they start gutting it by fast-forwarding you every phase so you are up to date and able to raid the next raid release, it is going to detract from that journey, and make the game feel closer to retail. That’s just my two cents, I would love to hear what you think again when you have had a go in the raids in their post nerf states.
1 Like
The gutting of mechanics is regrettable, agreed.
However there are a lot of DPS-Check mechanics, and TBC is organised horribly around the party buffs system. Some classes get over double their unbuffed DPS when in raid. This means that skill is irrelevant and it’s a combination of Gear and just having the right buffs on you.
That was TBC though, so without massively reworking the buffs system, these HP nerfs are the only reasonable way to allow casual guilds to compete. And casual guilds are more numerous that competitive ones, which means Blizzard really wants to keep those subscriptions in place to support WoW Classic continuing, which you should also want.