For the pugs it is 
In an unorganized group without voice communications and addons, Fatescribe just isnât gonna die. Even if you make a pug and get everyone in discord, itâd have to be an extremely lucky pull where everyone gets it right every time with no miscommunication as missing even a single rune is a wipe.
I should have said it better. Ofc course there is always some level of communication. What I meant was a lack of proper communication within an organized group. But even with addons and in a proper guild setting, the runes were a huge pain point for many.
On mythic you got a combo of up to 3 decrees. Even if you memorized all the icons combos and looked at them, reacting immediately to the exact combo you got and doing to correct thing is not a realistically sustainable strategy. And yes, you had to react instantly.
Here it is at 1:27.
I think problem lays with boss design and mechanics given to them. Letâs say you go to mythic content and its impossible to do raid due to:
-lack of knowing where to go
-lack of knowing on what you stand
-lack of knowing when boss is going to do mechanic or IS HE DOING IT CUZ YOU PUMP BOIS SO HARD NOW THAT NUMBERS AINT PUMP ITSELF
I think big solver would be just simplfy mechanic but then you would scream for harder content. When you taking away addon and simplify bosses⊠maybe that would work but itâs aint FF14 and thatâs what I belive is driving crazy people right now.
Again, what do voice communications have to do with addons? Blizz even provide us with in game voice to use.
A lot considering addons can provide you with info youâd otherwise only get if you talked to people directly, and text chat isnât exactly the most efficient way to do that mid fight.
And how many times have you seen people use it?
Iâve been in groups that have used it a few times. Most donât because weâre all on discord, but it works fine. And the point is that itâs available, so any argument that voice communication requires an external addon is void.
In fact, the same can be said of the information thatâs provided by all addons. The ToS doesnât allow addons that play the game for you. It only allows addons that present information thatâs already available to players in ways that better suits their personal preferences. The relationship between addons and the default UI is much like the relationship between discord and in game voice.
I havenât made that argument.
My point was that in uncoordinated groups, addons and weakauras can substitute for communication, because instead of a person itâs a weakaura telling you what do do. I am very well aware what addons can and canât do.
This conversation seems to have wandered off and got lost.
I thought this was what we were discussing - whether or not third party addons are required.
You introduced voice comms into the discussion as something that uses a third party âaddonâ service.
But whatever. Itâs late and Iâm going to sleep. I hope you find nice things in your vault tomorrow.
Seems like most people forgot this is a computer game, for computer nerds.
Being able to write and addon, a script, or even a good macro has always been a core part of player power in this game.
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And even Blizzard knows it was a bad idea. Just watch the video from Rob Pardo talking about game design.
Addons are the reason that encounters are designed like that. They are designed with the âaddonsâ in mind.
No, thatâs not what I said at all.
I said that you canât beat the game with skill alone. You will end up at a point that you canât progress because the lack of gear blocks you.
If you are as good as an opponent that has a higher ilvl, you wonât beat him.
If you are better than an opponent with a higher ilvl you are not winning in most cases either.
That has been proven so often in WoW pvp.
The factor that makes you progress is luck (+points at the exact right time) or the statistical chance that you win the match to get to a higher rating even when undergeared.
And to those âvideo proofsâ. Would you make a video failing? No?
What people will make those videos where they go from zero to hero? People that are already at a certain high range or people that have no or not much experience in pvp?
Show me those videos, where a typical casual, without help from a pro team or pro player, manages to play from zero to hero.
I donât know a single one. Why? Because WoW never worked that way.
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Unless you have literally no items equipped, then yes, you can.
Yes you can. You can always outplay someone that is even a better player than you. Your lack of arena experience is clearly showing.
I donât get it. I donât care about those who fail. I said you can do it if youâre good enough thatâs my point from the start.
Same, completely irrelevant to the point.
Since when are we talking about a âtypical casualâ with no experience ? How is this relevant to the point ? All Iâve been saying is if youâre an exceptional player you will get rating no matter what gear you have unless you have literally no items equipped. As long as itâs acceptable (i.e challenger-ish which was obtainable by anyone last season) then nothing will stop you but your own skill until the very top which is way, way higher than 2400. Thatâs my argument. I donât care if casuals or bad players cannot reach difficult goals or reach the very endgame, they should not, by design.
Right, so we designed the whole system around the 0,3% exceptional players and you donât see that as a problem and a reason why the 99,7% leave?
Yep, you are lost, completely.
btw. the goal never was to reach âGladiatorâ as a casual, but to be able to have at least gear that makes it possible to not get steamrolled. PvP isnât supposed to be decided by ilvl, it should be decided by skill. And as you already said yourself: It isnât, because even exceptional players would lose vs. exceptional players because of an ilvl difference.
Thanks for proving my points.
You dont need those combat addons for lower difficulties like heroic raid or M+15âs though. I have no idea why people would leave.
This is the only thing I donât like about PvE in WoW, it is made to use addons.
Bosses in games like FFXIV or Lost ark sometimes have more mechanics, but you donât need any addons. In these games, mechanics are indicated with clear animation or on ground.
Some ui addons are acceptable, because wow UI is outdated. (like horrible bag or action bars)
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That would be true if the whole UI wasnât designed like that. With a pure WoW UI youâll end up dead in heroic raids.
To specify this further. The game doesnât tell you if the âenergy ballâ that flies into your direction has to be tanked, consumed, avoided or maybe taken from 5+ players or the zone you are standing in is boosting your holy damage, killing you or making your heals more effective.
And with standard UI you wonât even have the time to check it.
With standard Ui you canât even track your buffs, procs or anything else without having to mouse over everything which is pretty bad.
You really have to clearify that to me. I never used anything special except timers. And honestly, running out of a circle is not done by an addons at all. How do you end up dead?
You editted your post;
The journal is telling you that though. And if you dont read that the hazelnutty videos tell you that.
I am not sure how this is preventing 99.7% of the playerbase from playing the game. This is highly optimizing stuff. Do i really need a weak aura of my tidal wave amount? Or can i get a little muscle memory with just pressing riptide into surge/wave into a filler or chain heal? I have timed up to +20 in legion without even having the weak aura addon. I also got all the legion curves.
Itâs indicative of bad design that you need to read the journal at all, let alone refer to outside information sources and download a ton of add-ins. The number of players willing to do this is appears to be falling all the time, which is likely why raiding appears to be in trouble even in an expansion that tries really hard to push it.
Most people likely play to relax and have some fun. I appreciate that means different things to different people but right now WoW seems to be missing the mark for more people than they hit it with.
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Well, you can also just go and find out what happens yourself. You do not need to read the journal or watch a video. If you are fine with wiping for quite some times and finding out yourself what is going on. Progression does not need to be fast. But this is really irrelevant to addons. This is about the difficulty of the game. And for LFR or normal dungeons it is not needed to prepare.