Karazhan needs major tuning

just dont move


It does need major tuning. I have literally failed three +2 keys on lower karazahn due to multiple failings. Nobody knowing what they’re doing, morons ninja pulling and leaving group, etc.

Honestly, Season 4 is such a disaster that it makes me wonder how Ion HazzaNoSubs still has a job at Blizzard. He’s a terrible Game Director and the dude should’ve stuck to his Law degree.

Who in their right mind thought it was a good idea to expunge eight perfectly good dungeons from the Mythic+ pool and replace them with three megadungeons and two instances from WoW’s worst expansion?

Ironically, Iron Docks and Grimrail Depot are the least problematic dungeons in this season’s pool. They’re just dull, like everything else from Warlords of Draenor…

You know what makes Season 4 worse? Players have no opportunity to learn any of the current season’s dungeons (aside from Tazavesh Streets & Gambit) in any environment other than Mythic+. Normals, Heroics and regular Mythics are still locked behind the regular SL pool.

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He’s not even responsible for this, he and the main team are focused on Dragonflight completely. These are 2-3 people who made this season possible.

After doing Karazhan again, I remember why I absolutely hated these dungeons and avoided them like the plague, even back then. I’d have taken a Cathedral or Seat any day over Karazhan :smiley:

Kara was always a very hated dungeon . That’s why Blizzard decision to bring IT back same like mechagon was Beyond crazy . They should ja e brought back maw and easier dungeon from suramar so people have fun instead this garbage

You make it look like people not knowing the mechanics is a good thing which it is NOT! I disagree with your opinion about the one shotting mechanics not existing under a certain level.

I like having mechanics which punish the player if not done right. Such example is from Vortex Pinnacle Asaad’s spell Supremacy of the Storm. It is not healable even in a Time walking.
Another examples are in Skyreach Rukhran’s Quills (you die if you don’t hide fast) or Pit of Saron Forgemaster Garfrost’s Permafrost (a stacking debuff)
I like a lot Junkyard because King Gobbamak’s Charged Smash can one shot. Yesterday my rogue friend kept dying because the rest of the range dd didn’t bother to soak it.

There are plenty of other boss mechanics which even in a TW will kill you. That includes SL too like PF. There are 2 bosses which can one shot you in M2.

So you just said what the problem is, people don’t know what they’re doing. I don’t think dungeons should be tuned for people who refuse to watch a simple Youtube video.

Nope a dungeon should not be listed in the season pool of it only possible to do it with voice and coordinated group. I timed it several times on 15 now. But it’s only possible if we do it internally

No, what I’m saying is that the mechanics are too punishing, mob health is too high and mob/boss damage is way too high, even on lower key levels.

Take Coggleston for instance in the Opera Beast encounter. Dude can 3-shot even a 270 ilvl tank. Not even popping cooldowns can save you from that boss’s broken-a-f armor shred ability.

Maiden of Virtue is… alright. More of a DPS check than anything else. Moroes is surprisingly easier than I thought considering what a coordination check he was in OG Kara, while Attumen is a bit of a nightmare.

Even with a full group of 270 to 280 ilvl players to assist me, I only managed to complete a +2 Lower Karazhan on +2 pacing. Karazhan is so overtuned that I would rather attempt a +15 anything else than try to wade through this utter mess.

Fact that I’ve completed much higher keys on +3 pace should tell you how difficult lower Kara is.

Why not? I totally respect that if you are not a lets say an experienced player that it has to be changed, people need to learn simple mechanics tbh also people need to learn to use defensives on the right moment immo

Yes if you dont interrupt Dinner bell it wil likely one shot a 270+ ilvl tank, so learn from it interrupt Dinner bell and GG.


We appreciate all the feedback on the Season 4 Mythic+ dungeons that has been made thus far. We’ve made the following adjustments that will be in effect with scheduled weekly maintenance (starting tomorrow, August 9 in this region):

Dungeons and Raids

  • Mythic+
    • Affixes
      • Shrouded
        • Zul’gamux now casts Blood Barrier less often.
        • Zul’gamux has found a new location to hide in Return to Karazhan: Upper.
    • Grimrail Depot
      • Grom’kar Far Seer’s Storm Shield can now be purged.
      • Grom’kar Cinderseer will no longer cast Lava Wreath.
      • Railmaster Rocketspark
        • Borka the Brute’s Mad Dash damage reduced by 30%.
      • Skylord Tovra
        • Thunderous Breath initial damage reduced by 25%.
    • Iron Docks
      • Fleshrender Nok’gar
        • Dreadfang’s Shredding Swipes should no longer hit players multiple times.
      • Oshir
        • Feeding Frenzy now requires Oshir to suffer 5% damage to be interrupted (was 8%).
      • Skulloc
        • Skulloc’s melee damage reduced by 15%.
        • Koramar will no longer cast Shattering Blade.
    • Return to Karazhan: Lower
      • Ghostly Philanthropist will no longer cast Throw Coin.
      • Gang Ruffian’s Poisonous Shank damage reduced by 30%.
      • The Opera Hall: Wikket
        • Winged Assistant health reduced by 30%.
      • Moroes
        • Moroes’ Garrote duration reduced to 1 minute (was permanent).
        • Moroes’ Dinner Party effect now increases the damage and attack speed of nearby dinner guests by 50% (was 100%).
    • Return to Karazhan: Upper
      • Shade of Medivh
        • Flame Wreath damage reduced by 30%.

Interrupting Dinner Bell wont help tanks not getting one shot by the boss itself. The adds spawn to close to eachother and have too much hp.

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That doesn’t seem to solve a lot of issues. Lower Kara feels as if it’s 5 levels higher than compatible dungeons if not more.

In upper Kara Medivh seems to hit like a truck. In general scaling also seems way off, but not as bad as lower. Abilities hit way harder than comparison with other dungeons.

The shield on 2nd boss in Iron Docks needs doubling, as very easy to break by dots or incidental cleave. Or possibly change so only direct damage triggers.

Similar issue with fear on 1st boss in Iron Docks, it can be triggered by normal damage rotation. Am I supposed to stop DPS 15 seconds beforehand?

These sorts of mechanics greatly punish particular classes. I can’t turn frozen orb off after it goes. DoTs can’t be turned off.

DoT tick from Skylord Tovra lightning zones does far too much damage. Even with perfect play avoiding all possible I’ve died plenty of times on this boss. Very overtuned.

I’d reduce dreadlord casting vampiric claws as they seem to cast it way too often. Blood shield change is good.

The mob in the fire room on upper Kara does insane damage when he teleports to you. Felt like at 20 Fortified instead of a mid 10s Tyrannical.

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Agreed, let the people who mess up die and not bother the rest of us.

I am experienced enough to know that +2 dungeons should not be punishing as +10 or 15. And I’ve done both +2 and +20 in the past, and numerous 16-19’s. And it’s nonsense when a +2 feels harder than much higher keys. And you know it as well

I disagree with you about the need of voice chat and a pre-made. I timed my 1st Lower Karazhan yesterday. Compared to my previous tries i can say a few things. Yes Lower Karazhan and Grimrail depot are harder than the rest of the dungeons and they need a bit of tuning. But that does not mean they are imposible to do without a premade with a voice chat.

Lower Kara is heavily healer dependant. Which means healer focusing on dmg is NOT a priority. Two of the bosses and a few of the trash packs hit really hard the tank. Dead tank dead group. Also the dd doing high dmg, knowing the mechanics and using TW is a important. For example i did a lot of tries under level 10 where on Maiden people didn’t know how to remove the stun or which mobs to cc on Moroes. Lower Karazhan is an old dungeon. Reading the journal is easy ask the guild/community/forums for advice. If that is not enough go watch some video guide.

I agree with you. The mobs have to much hp.

Grimrail can be done with 200 ilvl and kara u need 400. This is so unbalanced. my 15 key got destroyed to a 10 cause people jsut dont know what to do. Get hit by a coin and u get almost 1 shot. and that in a tyrannical week. The mobs in karazhan require more tacts and interrupts then a 25 man raid boss.

its fun and all but these arent dungeons that are released from start expansion. People who didnt play the expansion with kara in it dont know anything and just steamroll in it. Thinking they can do it without knowing tacts.

They all say they know tacts cause they dont want to get kicked out of the group. And in the run itself u are the 1 getting screwed. So im stuck with a kara key cause i cant trade it cause i am not reaching end of dungeon!

Sweet release

Let’s assume blizzard would introduce an 1-2 boss mini dungeon taking 10 minutes but is some mage tower hard stuff were no one should slack. I would totally agree on every point.

But Kara is more like an story dungeon with clear time of 40 min. Content should also respect players limited time

I want to thank you for listening to the community :smiling_face_with_three_hearts: give any dev a hug