Virtually the top pvpers say that the current system is something they strongly dislike. (to put it mildly)
At least the ones who stream or have an audience in general do… They just tend to not post on the forums about it that often.
Also, you’re right that the current system is doubly bad for a casual pvper, which I see as a problem in itself.
I knew a lot of people who enjoyed just spamming BGs and doing occasional wpvp.
The game has no place for them anymore, even though it accommodated them in some capacity from TBC up to Legion. Not anymore though.
Kinda sucks when the game changes and suddenly forces another type of content onto you as a prerequisite before doing other, entirely different type of content.
Who has time to do raids and Arenas all the time? Nobody. Give PvE heroes Valor and Justice so they can buy PvP pieces by doing PvE. Let us PvPers gain them via PvP. Problem solved and everybody is happy except special no-life snowflakes and you should never ever cater MMO for less than 1% playerbase who are nothing in real life.
Good for you I guess, why actively talk against it when others want it to be reverted to something that worked, though? How does that go against what you like to do in the game? You still haven’t answered that. It’s just the usual contrarian garbage I see so often on these forums, isn’t it?
Im pretty sure pve players say exactly the same thing, its the whole system that is problematic. Not pvp problems only i guess
Indeed but do not forget blizzard gives us what we whined previous patch for.
Virtually every bad grind change is due to OMG IM BORED whinings on the forums.
Why? What exactly is the problem for casual BG spammers?
They get a weekly chest, they get blue’s. I fail to see the problem here.
His fun in making edgy comments on the forums. He’s either trolling or on a crusade against normal pvp systems and… basically against people having fun without him.
I just read his comments and fkn hell dude, it’s not normal to say something like:
or
I mean wow…
No, he wants you to farm 6pieces of azerite gear (full rng) and 2 full sets of gear with proper stats, 1 for pve and 1 for pvp.
Instead of farming honor and taking out the pieces YOU want you like this current system where you farm endlessly what THEY want you to farm.
Clever guy you are.
The difference between the amount of time a pve player has to spend on acquiring their pvp pieces and the time it takes for a pvp player to get their pve pieces is enormous.
Pve players will farm 1 trinket and 1 ring or azerite or whatever which takes a few hours in bgs or 1-2 hours in arenas per season while for pvp players it takes the same amount per week, or more.
Arena barely gives any gear, bgs give you like 425 ilvl I think while everyone else who has pve gear rocks in 470 and the damage/healing difference is huge.
I don’t dispute that, the entire progress system that’s buried in systems that bump up daily retention is bad imo, really burns people out I find.
It’s just that in order to do PvP, you have to engage in PvE in nearly the same amount of hours put into it as a PvE’er would in order to remain viable, even in casual content.
I do realize that PvE also has that same ‘mandatory’ problem with PvP content in terms of essences and maybe certain trinkets, but the 2 are very disproportionate in the sheer amount of time investment.
I don’t know, maybe.
I can only say that I personally have never “run out of things to do” in previous expansions and what have you. I could always level or gear an alt, or take my fully decked char into a BG and have fun just playing the game, or dabble in all that ‘other’ content like PvE, at my own pace and my own terms.
I think my previous paragraphs alluded to this, so I won’t just pointlessly repeat myself.
So you farming right now an HC raid to get 2 items is harder from what a pve player must do: 2200? Rating for max ilvl item and wait for it to drop on the chest for better ilvl.
You serious now or you wanna pull the victim card like the rest?
Yep, but once again when it did not like WoD they complained
Later came legion and they made it a nightmare, i had to quit it. BFA is ligher for me pre S4 tho.
Not really, both a pve+pvp player need super bis gear to remain viable at high difficulties. You want to tell me you cant reach 2k without destra trinket? I highly doubt so…
PVE players actually have to invest alot more time im afraid. I know we can argue about that but… I guess everyone to his own view. Thats why i dont do it, it was the best thing for me!
I didnt run out of things to do even in WoD the game has an endless amount of things to do.
Nice dodge, but as far as i could see from WoD or example you could not get any epic item from BG’s it was just blues. Now in BFA though you have the chance to get epics when you cap, at the end of the week. WoD for example again needed rated content to give you any conquest.
Take a dh for example:
2 weapons from ra-den + drest trinket + shoulder and chest azerite items from the raid as high item level as you can and like 6 or 7 items from mythic+ to be BiS for pvp.
From pve point of view: you need 1 trinket from the pvp chest which you can choose once you opened your weekly pvp chest 2-3 times and reach 1600 cr.
I was serious, you can’t even compare the two.
Its not only 1600, there is not only 1 pvp trinket and its not only a trinket.
Several classes need azerite pieces from pvp as well. From the few i know is dk and shadow.
Farming drest+raden right now is a joke. Getting the bis trinket at a viable ilvl + the correct chest at a viable ilvl is probably 10 times harder.
You should not be serious, but yes not even close as you see above
WoD is a divisive expansion, but there are a good portion of people from PvP focused audience specifically that did not mind the WoD progression system apart from some BiS items being locked behind the RNG box from Ashran weekly. What problems people had in terms of PvP were about either class design or Ashran box, not the overarching gearing process.
I find that most of the complaining about WoD came from PvE audience, which is fair, PvE requires much more hefty feed of new stuff to run through, and WoD really dropped the ball in that regard.
The difference is that PvE content scales fairly well to your gear, whereas PvP content cares not for how well or badly geared you are, even in the casual activities.
In other words, you can much more effectively decide your own “cap-point” in pve, which is fine, but also makes me say that the 2 types of content ergo should not be conjoined in the manner that they are. Because they’re functionally so different, yknow.
And no, I don’t need Drest trinket for 2k, I’m currently 2.1k without it, but it is still an ABSURDLY strong trinket in PvP, and just having it will give you a considerable edge over someone who does not. And unlike in PvE, not having a certain BiS piece when others do will hurt your progress much more than it would in PvE, because you will need to play against it.
It wasn’t a dodge. I just didn’t want to reiterate the burnout point, which does hit a PvPer harder than a PvE’er due to the PvE prerequisite not having an endpoint in the same capacity as the PvP prerequisite does.
And unlike in PvE, you have no ability to play PvP in an enviroment that accommodates to your lower gear level.
Again, not something I want fixed per se, but it is, again, the reason why I think a separate progression path is required. Because the 2 don’t have a 1 for 1 conversion due to the nature of both content types working so differently.
You also could get fairly viable gear just doing BGs starting from TBC all the way up to WoD (with Wrath having some issues in that regard due to there not being any honor/rating-free gained weapons).
In TBC you could buy gear from 2 seasons ago with honor, and it was perfectly adequate for random BGs, and at least in MoP and WoD, maybe Cata too, you got a token amount of conquest points from BGs, I fully decked out my priest doing just casual BGs back in WoD in fact, months after people who did ranked did, but it was doable.
Apologies for typing a wall of text, but I feel like I’m going to be told to be “dodging” if I don’t.
Well I mean the raid is out now for 6 months, obviously it is easy to get in a pug every week and farm the items you want but when we’re talking about a season start you’ll never get into a hc pug as a pvp player for weeks, in fact pure pvp players aren’t welcome in guild hc runs either, at least in my experience.
The trinket/azerite is guaranteed once per conquest cap cycle tho.
Yes its always these pve players, right?
Cmon mate
You can do exactly the same in pvp.
Afterall all these PVE geared cheaters will climb really high and you will miss them right? The you can progress your own 2200 or whatever your point is. Now if you wanna climb to 3k, its like climbing to top 100-200 world kills nzoth or like 5k rio and all that is not easy.
Good, i dont need pvp gear for the content i do but i told you again many do its not only the pvp’ers problem.
Yeah be around 4000 M+ rio without bis gear, try it.
Or try a raiding nzoth for example without being carried by $$$ without a good gearset.
Things are not as you “imagine”
Again the PVP victim card, let me explain you:
At the start of the season i need to play at least 2-3 hours a day M+.
I have to raid 9 hours a week
This, is not to reach HC content.
Now the WQ activities is something both have to do, no need to mention.
But for the very best example, in start of S4 i should be focusing to all above + at least 1900 rating in pvp or more to get corruptions. I choose to NOT do it, PVP players could do a M+ and get their corruption from weekly chest and have spare time to come and drown all forum people with their tears.
That, does not mean you need to invest more time.
All need to invest time but only the pvp players pulling victim cards here.
You will never get in a pvp pug with decent players either, i pushed around 1600 for my essence with people sitting inside a smoke bomb and flaming me i didnt heal them. Thats not only your problem im afraid.
Everything takes time, but im not talking about this trinket the highest ilvl comes from chest. Not cap cycle reward.
?
It’s not an outlandish thing to say, I even said that it’s fair enough because PvE content works differently to PvP. PvPers can grind their Dust2 equivalent till the day they die and get a fulfilling experience with that, but its simply not feasible for PvE.
There’s only so many ways you can dress up a PvE encounter until it becomes too samey.
But you cannot. other people’s cap-point, by PvP’s very nature, become yours aswell, because you literally play against theirs. Which you do not in PvE.
The high-end gear bleeds into even the casual stuff in PvP in a manner that it does not in PvE.
I know its not, I’m not even saying to “only fix the pvp side of it”, I’m saying they should be separate, as in, they BOTH function within their own bubble and you do not need one to enjoy the other.
But that point, for PvP, comes at around 1500 rating when everyone is, almost without exception, 470+ geared.
And 1500 is like doing +0’s. Having such a barrier for entry in terms of character’s raw numerical power is just absurd.
And gear is such a huge deal currently that there’s only so much you can do to “outskill” with the current class design and power curve of gear.
And a PvPer would have to do all of that aswell, in order not to fall behind the mean value of the ladder in terms of gear and have your entire climbing progress not only completely halt, but have your weekly chest obtain take exponentially longer due to the unavoidable losses that stem from gear disparity.
You can call it victim card all you want, but, you, by your own admission, have not engaged with the PvP gearing process in a substantial manner, so I think you do not fully grasp how much more soul crushing it is in comparison to PvE-ers needing to do PvP.
Which, to reiterate AGAIN, I do not want to be in the game either.
The game should not force you into PvP or PvE in order to do the other in the manner that it currently does.
The best rating i see in ladders is like 3100, now if you climbed up to 2100 without any bis stuff its a pure fact that problems exist only in your mind…
I know and ive already answered you: If they do that people will start whine about the game in general. Thats why they force you to grind.
Did you just compare 4000 M+ rating to 1500 pvp rating or my english fail me?
At least you can outskill a human being playing a char in the arena or if that dude missclick something?
Now a boss that needs you to have a trinket to increase your vers and even drink a stam pot to survive an avoidable mechanic… That you cant outskill.
Nope, not at all.
Gearing in PVP regarding the whiners and their river of tears is alot easier than it in PVE. My bis stuff come from nzoth and carapace. Your bis stuff come from a weekly chest, only 3% of the playerbase will get the Mythic nzoth, even less will acquire the bis loot.
Now you, will have to just play arenas, get gear, get weekly chests and if you want to compete vs the guys that do everything: M+/Raid/PVP you have to do the same.
I choose to not compete with them, if you do suffer the consequences.
It is, look around you in the forums, you literally see pvp players FLOOD the forums with ther 1st world problems.
Did you see a pve player whining because he died to nzoth abilities?
Or the game is not balanced because everybody has a slow immunity and priests dont have and its so unfair for us that progressed carapace?
PvP players whine, thats all. That doesnt mean their whining is facts.
Players who play pvp, try to guess based on logic+class whats the opponents next move.
Players who pve have it all written in a sheet, they just have to synchronize 20 people to do what they have to do.
Nothing is easy for both of them since they both are literally out of their waters.
But as said before, exceptional players shine in both pve and pvp. I am not this kind of player and i know it + admit it.
It should not, but it is the only way to keep the whiners occupied.
Judging on how much they whine on the forums they are not occupied enough though.
Let people not PvP too, essence grind requiring PvP was a terrible idea, also remove war mode bonus. The only people in a PvP setting should be people who are actually interested in doing PvP.
“Whine” without a substantiated volume or percentage is a pretty poor metric to quantify how well a system does or doesn’t work because when you have a public, popular platform, you literally cannot take 2 steps within it without someone having an issue with the way you stepped on your left foot.
I know there’s a degree of irony in that when I’m here talking about how I have a problem with the game handles a thing, but I guess that’s how opinions function, right? I didn’t have a problem with the lack of content itself in WoD, someone else did, so I cannot speak on their behalf in regards to it.
I will however continue to give my feedback on the systems, because I know what I like in the game and I want those aspects to be the best they can be, in my opinion.
Nope, I wouldn’t even dare to guess where in the “pvp rating scale” 4000 M+ rating would land in (and they, for reasons I’ve said above a few times, do not directly compare anyway).
I said that 1500 is like m0, but has a prerequisite of needing around 460+ ilevel in order to climb without getting someone to effectively boost you through the content.
Due to how gear bleeds into that stuff, that’s not really true at all. You could outplay someone 20 times but if your gear is subpar, you simply will not have the numbers output to carry you into a win through those outplays.
A CC chain cannot continue forever, and typically eats up cooldowns to maintain which leaves you more vulnerable on a character that is already far more prone to randomly flopping than the opponent is.
It’s not though, and the fact that you have to do a substantial volume of PvE in order to be halfway competitive even in casual PvP content is testament to that.
I’m not very well versed in monk’s gear bis lists, but I’d wager that those same bis things for you are also bis for PvP. The gear from the chest, even if you don’t talk about the RNG aspect, is wildly inconsistent. My main, a rogue, can get by pretty decently with all 3 azerite pieces coming from PvP, but my priest cannot get even a halfway decent chestpiece from PvP, at all.
And then there are certain stat allocations that are bis that simply do not exist in the PvP loot table, so you have to get yours from 5masks, M+ or Nya.
My rogue can get a ring and azerite pieces that are pretty great from PvP, but p much all other pieces will have subpar stats, and I’m forced to get those pieces from another source.
1 piece with subpar but passable stats is fine, but 3 sets you back way too much. In order to get a 2nd ring that’s not awful, my rogue needs to do AD, WM or Nya. The 2 other ring variants that come from PvP loot tables are just awful.
Now, that could be mitigated if, AT LEAST there was a way to get actual bis stats, but even then the problem of casual PvP being completely dead as a viable thing to focus on and arena having such a steep upfront gear requirement (which you can only feasibly obtain from PvE sources) still exist and, imo, are a problem.
None of this is “facts” per se, no matter who’s side you’re on. Outside of bugs that render a game unplayable, everything comes down to taste and opinions.
But what could be argued that the current PvP gearing system is nearly universally disliked by all who subscribe to PvP as their “main focus” in the game.
I’m sure if they fixed PvP gearing, they’d still find something to cry about, you are right about that, but I do not consider that a factor that would stop me from still wanting the gearing process to be better.
You could say that there can never be a state of the game that will not see some people complaining.
Still, does not deter me personally from having an opinion on what I deem good, or bad.
You are giving feedback indeed.
If you want to see what “whining” means head to the arena forums and take a look.
Literally everything is a subject to whine for.
The only bad thing with you (IMHO) is that you feel your pvp life is hard while the pve life is easy. Its both same ssdd
Well i had to ask because my english fails me alot
Buddy my priest is 480 max, 478 holy, 476 shadow.
Im pretty sure a good pvp player can destroy me with 460 gear.
But can you cant do the same in pve, things there are linear.
There is no human error, no lag, no latency!
Competitive where? In 2800? Well in that scale is like 11/12m, to be competitive there you need your pvp gear as well inside pve. Therefore its the same.
Exactly, ive already said to drae and 2-3 more whiners that when the PVP vendor comes in SL they will be the first to whine about it. Just wait to see how wrong i am xD
Yes but i can also say that there will never, ever be a state of this game’s pvp that will be absolutely balanced. So many specs, so many things to balance and makes it impossible. That is logic and not something i would whine for, while i dislike ofcourse.
Stop using the word ‘‘Stupid’’ because you have no idea what you are talking about.
When you play an MMORPG and say you like the PVP aspect it means you enjoy it as endgame content, it means we like to level up with Warmode On, we enjoy leveling up through bgs (Shocker to you but you can do only PVP) No one is saying they want 100% PVP since leveling up is mandatory.
What is not fair is having people that enjoy PVP farm the same boring instance x700 times to get the mandatory essence or gear which require weeks in order to later have the opportunity to enjoy PVP.
No once again, a simple solution would be to create PVP vendors,PVP currency, and PVP gear so that people that enjoy this aspect of the game can enjoy it again like they did in older expansions such as WOTLK,Cata,MOP etc…very simple and would not mess with you PVErs.
You clearly post a lot of headstrong opinions against PVP players. I wonder why?
You have 15k+ Achievements which means you have played this game for many years yet your are only honor level 25…Which means you barely PVP at all. So respectfully your opinion is irrelevant, you are just posting your subjective hate on the forums, giving PVP players what they are asking for would not in any way influence you.
Ofcourse it influences me~ I can play right now up to 25lvl without worry that some overgeared snowflakes will not take any dmg and will one-shot me
PvP in this game was garbage till Legion happened. Before I was not willing to play at all~ I wonder how many players would willingly suffer to make this low amount of secondary players happy again.
You’re a clown who doesn’t even know what you’re talking about. Perhabs you should pay attention to what people like Holinka had to say throughout the years about participation numbers when it comes to pve vs pvp instead of making yourself look stupid.
