Lets remove addons what a great idea .... Current state of beta

Community General Discussion
61

No we are not gonna have the customization. We do not have it in beta, and we will not have it in release.

For example, I will not be able to track my MSW as a bar/combo points, even though it is an actual resource for my spec. Also, I will not be able to change the color of the nameplates in order to track the 6 (!?!) targets that my flame shock is still capped to.

Their design goal and philosophy and ages apart from where they are in the beta, and the problem is that they will not be able to achieve it for this release. You would have way less people to complain if they pushed it for next expansion and made the changes needed.

P.S: I am one of those people that agreed with their philosophy and them “taking their time” with a clear goal in the future and development/testing it before removing the addons. But they said one thing and went and did the exact opposite.

62

Ask them if they liked the default UI instead… :smiley: That is called whining. Not complaining.

People were whining because they had to spend maybe 30 minutes per season to configure their UI. And that was annoying. YES. But NONE of them, and I can tell you… NONE… would prefer Blizzard to do that job for them… thats for sure.

Here is the thing. If instead of 2000 things blizzard made the encounters with 200 things, people would not install the addons to begin with. So it’s not an addon problem. It’s an encounter design problem.

I mean… Mythic Dimentious dosent need a single addon. And many did it with out them. And the list of stuff going on in that boss is huge. So it’s possible to make cool, engaging bosses with out needing any addons at all.

Addons just cover the annoying, stupid things in encounters.

In M+ for example, OmniCD and Targeted Spells WA were only “needed” because you had machine gun casters 1-shoting people with combo-wombos all the time.

But who in their right mind would place 3 casters with 3 massive “AoE Divine Tolls” chunking 80% of people’s HP in 1 single shot… I mean… PLEASE…

And let me tell you a little secret here… have you played the Beta? Because it’s hillarious. All those annoying things are STILL there. Every single dungeon in Midnight will be a “priory”. With “Divine Tolls” and 2/3 casters per pack.

You will see in S1 of Midnight. People will BEG for addons to come back. I can guarantee you that 100%… Remember my name. Because you will prove me right. It was never about addons. It was 100% about encounter design. And the fact that blizzard has slacked for so long.

63

PvP is garbage, that’s why there are so few players. PvP queues pop quickly only for a few weeks after a new season starts; otherwise, there’s no real reason to play it.
Dungeons are only really good for leveling — queue as a tank or healer and you get instant pops.

There are plenty of players, but at the end of the season they’re doing other things like playing alts, trying Classic, or working on achievements. Basically, it’s a seasonal game, just like PoE 2. The first weeks are super active, then it slowly feels dead because most people have already done everything they wanted.
Most players are happy with AoTC and KSM, and that’s enough for them. We can’t expect the game to feel alive, especially at the end of an expansion.

64

And that is exactly what a beta is for. This isn’t call of duty. It’s not gonna release in 3 weeks with a 3 days “beta” before that. It’s been a week into the beta. So keep giving them feedback. Their primary feedback will be from in the game.
They have listened the last few years. More than they used to. And if you believe it is pointless and will only see the game in a negative light, then i don’t understand why you’d stick around.

For me, this is not my first alpha or beta in a game. Far from it. I’ve seen what happens with game development. Things are promised, other things get in the way and that other thing takes priority. I suppose i have more patience than most it seems.

And no, i am not taking everything they say like they’re the messiah. I don’t expect them to deliver things perfectly like others seems to do. I’m skeptical, that’s for sure. Yet i won’t sit in these forums and complain because that doesn’t do anything.

65

Blizzard made 2000 different mechanics to “battle” with addons. Always trying to one up them. Why do you think there were purple swirlies on purple floor?

And the Dimensius fight seems to be kind of the design they want to do with bosses.

I remember seeing on the forums of people dooming and glooming over the past expansions when the beta was running, and when they released, they weren’t bad. Sure, if you do +15 or above or whatever, things will hurt.

Like i told the other guy, the beta’s been up for a week. M+ testing for 4 days. I’ve seen the dungeons in Quaziis video. It just looked like Blizzard copypasted past dungeon mobs abilites just to get the testing going.

66

I dont know where you got all that Copium. It is not the first time we warn Blizzard about horrible things. And they do them anyways.

Le list is HUGE… TWW S1 was an absolute fail in M+. We TOLD them in Beta. They did not listen. They did not change anything.

And then… on live… when SECOND week they witnessed a 2M tank in keys done… THEN they did something about it… And they literally took 2 weeks to fix it. But by then it was WAY too late.

They had FOUR MONTHS to do it during Beta. They did nothing at all…

Nah… I dont have any Copium left. They have been doing this BS since Vanilla… the 12th time wont be the charm…

67

It’s called having patience and being realistic. Game development isn’t easy or straightforward. If they miss, then unsub. Best way to say you’re not happy with the game.

So people aren’t used to it by that point? lol

68

That is pure bullsh.it and you know it. RTWF people were cheesing SOME bosses with add-ons. Everyone else were not.

Let me tell you. With out addons it’s not like Blizzard can do whatever they want. They wont enter some sort of “creative paradise”. NO. They will have their hands tied to the fact that people cant track certain things.

For example: You CANNOT have machine-gun casters in an M+ pool if you cannot have OmniCD. They CANT put a mob that 1-shots people at random in an M+ dungeon if they dont provide the tools to counter them.

If on the other hand, you DO give the tools to counter it, then you CAN put that mob there.

Its not what you think it is. It’s a zero sum game. With addons there are things the devs cant do. But with out them, there are ALSO things they cant do…

So I repeat once again. It’s NOT about addons. It’s about encounter design.

You know the “machine-gun” casters? You know how to solve that problem from the root? Well you cap their damage. And implement smart targeting. Such that they cannot cast things during a big AoE event, and/or the same person twice. THEN you can implement machine-gun casters if you want.

If they would have done it from the beginning in DF, NOBODY would be using OmniCD at all… But they WONT.

So now. They have to figure out new mechanics that are possible to pull off with out OmniCD. They have their hands as tied to the ground as they did when addons existed. Nothing changed for them.

The only difference here is that addon creators found solutions to problems in a matter of DAYS. Blizzard on the other hand… has had YEARS to figure this out:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/z34RyViO0uk

A problem Plater solved in 2008… Blizzard has had TWO MONTHS to fix it but apparently they are incapable of copy-pasting a stupid script from Plater… PATHETIC…

And if they cannot fix it… then they got their hands tied. They CANNOT make a boss with 50 mini-adds. They have to re-design that boss from scratch. And have him summon only ONE add instead. See what I mean by “hands tied”?

69

That’s preciselly what I am going to do. And I am letting them know it in advance that I refuse to heal anything or anyone with the absolute moronic state of the party frames. AND what they did to RShaman. Where my top #5 heals are all PASSIVE heals.

I dont play. The totems play for me. It’s PATHETIC. It’s even worse than playing with OBR… I dont even have to press any buttons.

They are the ones that should be used to it. I mean… sub numbers nose-dived a few times already. Almost killing the game. SL being the latest one…

So… Up to them really…

But either way. We KNOW it’s going to be a disaster. We KNOW they wont do the job. And we KNOW we will all quit as a result.

So why are you so adamant on defending them? Dont. Tell the truth. They will fail. PERIOD.

70

If you say so. You vs those who have actually talked to the devs are in the wrong then.

This is a good start, no? Keep telling Blizz to make fights like this.

You are comparing a person who decided to take their own time to make an addon with their free time as they please vs people working on multiple things in a company with a strict time limit. Yeah that’s a good comparison.

Since Plater solved it, Blizzard didn’t have to do anything. Tons of addons did what people though was needed so Blizz skipped on doing them. And no, they can’t just copypaste someone elses code like its a text document. And very likely, legal reasons.

71

Sure… Heroic Raids are absolutely designed knowing that people will install an addon and somehow cheese them…

RIGHT? Then what’s the deal with addons then? Why cant I track my own buffs. Or change the bars to pink because I like pink better?

What legal reasons? The math behind is not proprietary. You cant even patent that.

I can compare it. YES. One guy in a garage can do things better than a whole team of people. And what tight deadlines are you talking about? In 2 years?

The guy in the garage had all the time in the world. His job was not on the line. And yet, he managed to do it better.

Look. If someone can built a Ferrari in their garage, with rudimentary tools, in less time and with better performance than Ferrari itself… dunno… what would you think?

You conveniently left out the key message:

So all your argument of

Is false. Nothing will change.

72

Others games dont even have the addon concept , the ideea they have with killing addon in combat is great it will make the game more intense , you people got used too much with addons that break the gameplay borders of the game itself

2 Likes
73

Its like a test or something…

1 Like
74

Yepp. You’re telling them they are wrong because you’re so focused on the 0.1%

Then tell Blizzard that and don’t sit in here acting like they have personally told you they won’t do it because you act like they hate you for not doing exactly like you want them to

I have no clue. Maybe they weren’t taking addons into their own game because they wanted the players to make their own. We don’t work for Blizzard or Microsoft. If it was so simple as to just take an addon devs code and copypaste it into the game, then we’d see that by now. But we don’t. They COULD land in legal trouble. Not because of patent but of some sort of protection. Look up why. Neither of us are experts in legal matter.

No, you really can’t. Already explained it to you but you’re looking through a paper straw and focusing on “lone dev vs teams”, not understanding WHY that is.
Doing physical things are a little different to digital coding but go on i suppose.

You say this like them having 50 adds is hardcoded into the game and can’t just change it. It’s a matter of changing numbers. Just like they did with the recent dungeon changes in the beta. Reduced adds. Same goes with the nameplates. A matter of number changing. For all we know, they could’ve already made it but didn’t implement it into the beta yet. Just like the transmog outrage when they later clarified everything isn’t implement yet. Quick to conclusions.
All of this boils down to:
—>>>its a beta. A test<<<—
We are a week into the beta. Raid testing hasn’t started yet.
If your past experience with the betas is that they never listen when it hits live, then why are you sticking around? It’s not healthy to be so negatively invested in something.

75

No. I am telling you that all this narrative of “needing addons for anything” only applies in practice to the 0.1%. Therefore, they are doing this ONLY for the 0.1%. Not for everyone else.

Oh I dont have to tell blizzard. Blizzard SAID they would. But 4 months into this and I still cant change the color of a simple bar.

So that is what I am doing exactly. Calling them incompetent.

They dont do it because they got themselves into a corner they cannot escape.

It would be a really bad to say “you dont need addons” and end up making the exact same carbon-copy addons (including their many customization options that people thought were annoying).

Their ego is hurt basically. They have 2 choices: Either make addons as they were, and design the game as it was. Or remove them (as they plan to do) but simplify the game as if it as MC in 2004 Vanilla.

They got themselves into the hole they dug themselves.

If a TEAM of people cannot manage to do what 1 guy could. It means they waste their time on things other than coding. Like meetings and “trainings”. I see that in my work very often. And let me assure you that those “Teams” dont get a pass because they are teams.

Raid testing HAS started. And it’s the same raids as we got today.

And you forget: They had 2 months of Alpha PRIOR to the Beta. We have been telling them the same problems again and again. Not just us, the whole community AND they have been giving us feedback. Promising solutions.

And here we are. MONTHS into this.

1 Like
76

As a brewmaster main for years, I’ve to chuckle a bit at this part

Is this your first rodeo with neglect? Better strap in, sister! because it takes them forever to listen.

77

Sure. Whatever makes you sleep at night. Everyone is wrong and you are correct. Very good. Who cares what the devs and players says, right? Only you are correct because you say so.

4 months into what? The UI development or the expansions alpha and beta? Alpha started with an internal testing aka very hush hush, and the public alpha in October. And now we’re a week into the beta. Changing the colors of your bar might not be on their priority list.

You seem to know exactly how it work. Do you work for Blizzard or do you get leaks from someone? Because what you are saying isn’t “obvious” because you think so.

Yeah it’s pointless talking about this with you. In one ear and out the other. You say you see this in you work very often but don’t seem to understand HOW it works.

Checking and yes, it has started. My bad on that part. Only seen the news of M+ being testable. Very odd that no one has said anything about it but focus on M+…

You seem to be that kind of person to think a game takes just a few months to develop with the rest of that 1,5 year being in meeting and slacking off. Did you stop to think that all the feedback they got from the alpha is being worked on right now alongside ? You probably didn’t and at this point, i don’t expect you too. 4 months is nothing in game development. No matter how you try to spin it.
And no, i won’t pretend that they will fix everything until release. I’m not naive. Not the first time they do this and not the first game it happens in. But i don’t act like they won’t fix a single thing either. Not asking to put your faith in them. Don’t get your hopes up and you won’t be disappointed because it seems like that’s what you are doing regarding the way you talk.

Again, we are a week into the beta. Chill. Give feedback, even if you think its fruitless. Otherwise, dooming, glooming and being a negative andy isn’t productive and not helping anyone.

78

They are not, they limiting combat info that was used by combat addons, not purging addons at all

told ya!

Yes, because it’s beta, things changes very fast and addon developers trying to address changes asap which is not possible, and there are bunch of lua errors even with 0 addons just because not everything were made perfect.

as everything else. You can’t ignore UI developing for 20 years and then pretend like you’re able to replace others people 10+ years of work within 5 months, especially when some addons teams are actually bigger than blizzard developers team itself

1 Like
79

Finally someone with logical thinking

80 
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