Nah I still think that Belves are the worst. They switch their allegiances as they please.
Zul’Jin knew better the territory and that was the reason why he didn’t want to follow Orgrimm. But Amani as a people are imo quite decent. I know it was a tragic event but if we managed to be cool again with Zandalari then Amani should be even a lesser problem.
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Perhaps we should simply say that belves and Amani are both terrible allies, in their own unique ways? One eats your people and the other stabs you in the back?
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The blood elves are at the front of events taking the fight to Azshara. Together with the Nightborne. Where are the Amani? Put in a safe domain by the Zandalari to prevent them from becoming another fallen tribe. Case closed.
Lets be honest, it is no more petty than all the nonsense about Barbie and Ken… The Point I was making is that neither Orc, or Troll females, actually look like the same species as the males of their species. Trolls were planned to, but people complained they were ugly. Blizzard are awful for it, Draenei is the most obvious example, but Orcs, Trolls, Forsaken (How come females can stand up straight). Human males don’t look human, whereas the female model actually does, in fact there are very few Species playable in the game where the males and females look like they belong to the same Species. Why? Because people don’t want to play femmes that are ugly. So why is this a problem unique to Blood Elves? Answer; It Ain’t.
Yee-ees, I mean that’s always been the thing with Elves, in myth and fantasy, they’re -just- different enough from humans that whilst people find them attractive, there is also a severe case of ‘Uncanny Valley’ about them. But sure, they are the most human-like race in the Horde.
I’m not sure you -do- understand. Whilst the Horde might have needed more players, it was never the ‘thing’ that Kael’thas took every single Blood Elf to Outland. If he had, who was he sending the Fel Crystals back to Azeroth for? We know they were to keep the buildings of Silvermoon standing, but if everyone was in Outlands what was the point? Why bother to send Rommath back to Azeroth with the special teachings Kael’thas had been given by Illidan, if there was no one in Quel’thalas to deliver these methods to ? Straight away that makes the Blood/High elf schism not a thing, which makes the Silver Covenant impossible, in fact makes a -lot- of lore events impossible. In fact the entire plot and lore only makes sense if (as Blizz stated) Kael’thalas had only taken his Sunfury to Outlands, and not every Blood Elf suddenly upped sticks and moves. If you want to talk about Lore inconsistencies, there is one. They -never- all went to Outlands. WHat you suggest would be a complete Lore Inconsistency.
Err what?
No, we do -not- all know that, -that- is what people with this weird axe to grind always say “Its because they’re pretty!” No, it, really is not. Stereotypes are lazy thinking. I don’t actually -know- anyone who plays a Blood Elf because they want to look ‘Pretty’. Besides, ‘Pretty?’ is…is that what you see? Something angular, ageless, cruel, with the stare of an addict and makes you feel like a mouse before a cat, and even worse, they know it. You think they’re -Pretty-?
The Horde reason is pretty simple. The Alliance had attacked them. They had just received a short sharp shocking lesson as to where their Insular policies had gotten them, with the majority of their people dead. The Alliance then tried to do for the rest by sabotage and incursions into their lands. The Horde had not tried to do them harm in the aftermath of the Scourge, and was even helping them. Their leader had information that their Warchief would desperately want to know as a bargaining chip.
Seriously, whats not to understand?
They don’t live in a capital named by the invader of Silvermoon, they live -in- Silvermoon. Just as a reminder, that is a War that Orgrim -Lost-, and the Blood Elves with allies, ‘Won’ I imagine they’d feel pretty smug, to be honest.
Not…sure where you’re going with that. It was red before they joined the Horde, that’s for sure. I mean that is the whole point of the starting Blood Elf Character Experience. When you roll a new Blood Elf Character, you are -not- in the Horde, your people are -not- in the Horde. That doesn’t happen until you have finished the second zone.
Why are the buildings suddenly painted red (or more likely, magically changed) well, the answer is pretty simple. They had already -renamed- themselves Blood Elves before joining the Horde, and we know the Blood Elves are big on their jingoistic patriotism, they do love that Red and Gold. Reckon that might have something to do with it?
(Also, prior to TBC, we only really saw Silvermoon in the WC games. In those, humans were as big as a House…I don’t really think they are an accurate reflection…)
To be fair, the Amani clearly do have a problem with the Darkspear, then have one in a cage in one of their villages in Eversong Forest, and they’re planning on eating him, So, yeah, they do have a problem with them…
Sounds fair, That’s what I like about Blood Elves, they’re like Elves from o ur myths and legends, not cutsesy shining good pretty people, but ancient, conniving and can be ‘Fair of Face, but Foul of Feeling’ as the Irish said of them.
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Brigante I will be straight forward with you.
Blood Elves, Forsaken, Nightborne makes no sense in the Horde.
As the entire BfA narrative.
You simply cannot defend one and refuse the other.
If people like Sylvanas, they will have to accept Thrall comeback, they simply have no choice, you can’t pick one and discard the other.
If you like Blood Elves in the Horde, than accept the Nightborne and everything that comes after, even Pokemon’s (vulpera).
Accept as well that Horde is a chaotic faction, bound to commit war crimes, every time Horde and Alliance are at war, for the sake of drama, because our counter parts will never be written like that.
Blood Elves will be guilty by association as well, because they are part of the Horde.
If Horde would lose BfA expect no better treatment as the Orcs or Forsaken.
You can RP and ignore it, after all it’s nonsense.
But no matter where you go, the narrative will remind what you did, even if you want to ignore it, as our Alliance counter parts in every lore discussions.
I used to think our Alliance counter parts enjoyed to bash us as Manchester city, bashed Manchester United, but I was wrong.
When they tell us that we are bad people that refuse to take responsibility, for our actions, I say they are right.
Because the narrative supports them.
There is no way to defend Horde narrative because Blizzard destroyed the Honoured Tribalistic Horde from Warcraft 3, when they created WoW, with the introduction of the first non tribalistic race: the Forsaken.
Alliance players tells us we should not be surprised with Sylvanas actions after all she always been like this.
Yup.
We took the Forsaken because Activision Blizzard wanted 2 factions instead of 4.
Now we are part of a Undead faction bound to murder civilians and raise them as undead.
Our faction is a mix of Blackhand Horde and Arthas scourge.
Did anyone notice the Val’Kyr that are with Sylvanas were with Arthas as well ?
If it wasn’t for Arthas there would be no Forsaken, you can thank them.
That’s why I made this topic.
I don’t like this narrative neither what’s came before it.
I enjoy the game play that’s it, that’s why I think game play should be separated from what is written on books.
In every book there’s the good guy and there’s the bad guy.
Horde is now that bad guy in the book.
All because they turned WoW from a simple vanilla game in to this immersive real time book were we play the role of villains.
But hey if you are ok with that, it’s fine.
I was never in to book reading, but from the little I had access in a Good War, I am glad I never did.
And by the way I was told in general forum that the fact so many people, including I are talking about it is a proof that BfA is a success.
Right now the future of the next WoW purchase in 2020 is hanging on the balance of BfA, for me and I believe many others.
Activision Blizzard started messing up things with their Diablo 3 team in WoD.
Let’s see how long they can keep messing things up.
End of rant.
Sorry for the long post.
Cheers.
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No, but the alliance screamed for High Elves and yeah… they kinda created that ![:poop:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/poop.png?v=6" ":poop:")
It’s strange that they picked a site but the High Elves were also Highborne which were the high peak of Night Elf civilization.
Nightborne make no sense, but I think Mayla joined because she liked Baine or sth.
Mag’har were… well. Their introduction was very bad too.
Sad but true.
I don’t care how do you want name it. I don’t know how it looks on Argent Dawn, but I only see much more Blood Elves on my common PvE server. The most don’t choose it because they care about the lore, no, they choose it because they look like a good looking human.
Why they still stay in the Horde if they have no problems anymore.
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Well in all honesty. I love the chaotic mess that the Horde evolvd into over time. I only played your average fantasy good guy faction back in classic wow because playing Horde was not just an option with ugly face customisations and terrible gameplay restrictions on, pretty much, everything and everywhere, that makes your life easier.
Not to mention the passive green human Thrall, who just couldn’t be arsed to take action about anything. Humans in Tiragarde? Ignored it. Nortwatch hold just a rockthrow away from Durotar? Ignored that problem too. Border skirmishes at the Barrens close to Ashenvale or the unchecked actions of the Warsong tribe? Who cares. Dwarfs in Mulgore and Barrens violating the treaty Cairne made with them? The Tauren are left alone with it to deal. Echo Isles? Lmao Thrall kept sitting on his chair. He reminds me of Tyrion from GoT. Compromising and passive action making the whole situation worth for Daenerys each move, yet the narrative expects us to cheer/root for him.
It was long due overdone that something big would kick the Horde out of this apathetic state of terms. But since Cataclysm spilled the beans, there was no going back to the Thrall ways of inaction and one sided compromises. And I support this narrative still. Just like Kreia’s vision in Kotor 2 stated it about history, action and the philosophy of “the force”.
“Apathy is death.”
They still haven’t retaken or healed the Ghostlands.
So blame the players for only caring about the looks. This is by no means Blizzards fault.
I found them quite refreshing compared to the other, rather short, ones.
Blood Elves are Highborne. Nightborne are Highborne. Tyrande acted impulsive and without Anduin’s supervison. Do the maths.
They are humanized elfs now. Nothing Highborne about them anymore. “Chosing friends over heritage and nation.”
Guys I’m not gonna argue with you - let’s agree to disagree. I’m not gonna convince you to my opinion because it is opinion based on personal observations. I was playing belf when I first started my adventure with WoW (but mostly because I wanted to be mage and didn’t care that much for races) but I don’t like them anymore. And I don’t like them for plenty of reasons.
But this thread isn’t about what Zakkaru likes or not - and nobody should care that much to begin with - I know that I have specific taste. Opinions are like a-holes everyone got one. One likes colour blue another one yellow. One likes sea food some people detest it. And same goes to fantasy preferences - I don’t like elves (well at least night elves have some mystery about them that makes them still interesting) . But it’s not the end of the world that one forum poster doesn’t drool over them.
But I respect that you guys like them so I don’t mention it that often.
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The Horde will never help them because they should do it be themselves?
You can’t say that Blizz don’t wanted it. You stated by yourself already!
Bull
They’re still snooty and selfish.
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The way Alleria and Vereesa talks remind me of humans. Nothing snooty about them. Chosing human friends and family over the other elfs is by no means selfish.
It was a new stance to make Mag’har the ones being attacke instead of being the attackers if the ingame sources are correct. Usually it is the Orcs starting the war.
They wanted it because balance matters. They worked on this project for the past 12 years. If this is the only way to ar.se biased players to play as Horde instead of alliance, then so be it. That was the compromise.
No. The Horde TOTALLY should help them. The Sin’dorei have done enough to be equal members of the faction at this point.
Very good point.
And why they need balance ?
Balance is destroying the Horde identify.
Answer: for faction war of course.
You can’t have a war if the majority of the players chose Alliance, can’t we ?
One is good the other is evil right ?
Nope if one is evil everyone will want that faction destroyed, so let’s make a compromise shall we ?
That’s what the Horde is now: a compromise that serves none.
- You consider yourself honoured ?
Not anymore, Teldrassil makes you a war criminal, you may not been there, but you served Sylvanas. - Like chaotic lore ?
Too bad we can’t have that your troops are rebelling because they are suffering from PTSD. Traitors all of them !
Cheers.
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Says who? I mean you say they make no sense, and make some very eloquent points, but equally I can point out counter-reasons as to why they -do- make sense. Stop thinking in terms of Tolkein morality, and think in terms of the confused, horrible, bipartisan nature of our own world. Why the heck was there a Cuban Missile Crisis? What made Cuba, a country within metaphorical spitting distance of the USA, decide to shackle its star to the USSR on the other side of the planet? That’s pretty crazy, right? What made Taiwan do the same but in reverse, allying with the West, despite the -HUGE- Communist super power that hated them that was on their doorstep.
Strange things happen, and if stranger things have happened in -our- reality, then how on earth can we say that they are unrealistic to happen in a world that is -Not- Real! You give me any example of what you think is a playable race acting unrealistically, and I will give you a realistic example from our own world where the very same has happened. I Guarantee you I can. That’s not an attempt to belittle your points or how you make them, they are lucid and well thought out, perhaps it is just my aging cynicism, but I bet you I can point out real life examples, where ‘crazy wow stuff’ has actually happened.
Yeah? You seem to think I have a problem with that? Sylvanas has lost the plot. I’d prefer it was a competent leader like Thrall, Baine if Christie Golden stopped writing him, Lor’themar Theron, or Rok’han if he was given more screen time and presence,
You seem to be under the mistaken impression that I object to those two. I’m having fun levelling my Nightborne Mage at the moment, can’t wait to get my Zandalari Druid, and Vulpera, ehh, I could find a way of RPing one, I’m cool with that.
Both sides do that. But this is an argument that has been hashed out and rehashed for ages, do I really need to repeat the War Crimes Garrosh was accused of, and then show how the Alliance had carried out all of the same?
I won’t give spoilers, but I think that is LTT’s stance in 8.2, and Rok’hans, and we know it is Baine’s, and Thalyssra’s, and Talanji’s, and Saurfangs, and…You get what I mean? Even Gallywix sees which way the wind is blowing, and jumps ship, onlyone who doesn’t? Geyah, but what the heck does -she- know about Azeroth Politics anyway, she’s been here a few months!
I quite liked the football analogy, then it just went weird. I mean seriously weird. Badly so.
So let me get this right, I am a bad person, who should take responsibility, for the actions of a set of Pixels, coded by a person I have never met, about six thousand miles away. And you think that is a reasonable standpoint? You think I should take some responsibility for what a programmer, 6,000 miles away, decides has happened? That I should regard it as some moral indictment upon my character, and even more bizarrely that other gamers should then be able to call -my- (not my characters, -My-) moral integrity into question, based upon a 6,000 mile away person typing code.
They are about as far from ‘Right’ as you can be.I mean that is scary levels of wrong, as in actually scary if people do think like that OOC. I’m choosing to hope that you were exaggerating, because if there are people who actually think that way, I do not want them anywhere near a Voting Booth. Oh, wait, Trump got Elected…Yeah, they obviously are…
They probably should have watched the Warbringers Cinematic, they would have seen that -everyone- was surprised by Sylvanas’ actions, even Nathanos, who was her lover when they were mortal! I mean how much more of an indicator of ‘She’s lost control’ do you need?
Its a mix, it always was, so what? As a solely Orcish entity the Horde was as dull as dishwater, thank goodness they gave it a spark of life, or unlife…
Ummm, Yep? And the Death Knights that are with Sylvanas and Anduin were with Arthas as well? Where you going with that?
I guess so. Thanks Alliance, for the Genocide! Is that what you meant?
Ah well, that’s a Realm problem, not a Blizz Problem, on the RP realms people play Blood Elves for a reason, to be honest, only ever played RP Realms since start so I don’t know what it is like on raid realms.
Because the Alliance carried out a horrific act of Krystallnacht violence, murdering and torturing civilians, simply because they were Blood Elves, and the Alliance did -nothing- to punish the War Criminals. I mean, that’s a pretty massive reason, They -were- contemplating rejoining the Alliance against Garrosh, then Jaina and Vereesa went cray-cray and ruined that. So they had problems. They had massive problems, Jaina and the Silver Cov had just made -MASSIVE- problems, so yeah, they stay with the political organisation that isn’t turning a blind eye to the murder and torture of their civilians. Shocker…
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Read this.
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Very well.
By that statement here are a few races bound to join the faction conflict, according to Activision Blizzard current writing:
Horde
- Bloodsail Buccaneers (Humans);
- Eradar (Red Draeinei)
Alliance
- High Elves;
- AU Lightforged Orcs;
And anything else they decide to write as you stated, because:
“but equally I can point out counter-reasons as to why they -do- make sense.”
and:
Even better how about separating the lore from the books, from game play ?
Zakkaru stated that one thing that made him cringe, was this Blood Elf female that was Rping, a tribalistic character and explained to him why that made sense.
How about reverting the story in game, to the vanilla story telling, where you could literally pretend to be anything, instead of this annoying talking heads and CGI cinematics that basically makes your character go through a theme park, where you have no choice.
Agree.
TL;DR verion of it:
“I am fine with Activision Blizzard current writing.”
I would accept it as well.
That was a example.
I know you quite well to know you do not stand for Sylvanas actions, that’s why you keep RP your character out of it, all the time.
If you accept Activision Blizzard inconsistencies, than you accept the hole package, including Christie Gold writing, because she is part of the writing team.
Very well.
Tell me: when was the last time a Alliance crime was animated and portrayed in a CGI cinematic or animated movie ?
In Old Soldier you can literally see people screaming, while being burned alive in Saurfang’s mind, while Sylvanas is smiling.
Where was the Alliance counter part to it ?
I consider Erivien a sane, honest person.
I like him, because it’s easy to understand his mind set, he likes chaos and there’s nothing wrong with that.
So my answer is no.
Nope.
Your character will.
They can say: You chose to play that faction.
None stopped you from choosing the Alliance.
You see the problem ?
The narrative gives your PC 0 reasons to stand and say you are not chaotic.
It’s OK if you like it as Erevien, but you have a problem if you like the Honorable tribalistic Horde.
Ask any of our Alliance counter parts, to write Sylvanas CV crimes against the Alliance and the list will be extensive …
Fine, nothing like a happy customer.
Activision Blizzard loves you, let none tell you otherwise.
Sylvanas faction is the Undead faction of Warcraft 3.
The same you played when you were through Arthas campaign.
Even Garrosh admitted that:
I meant if it wasn’t for Arthas there would not exist Forsaken, seeing so many people enjoy Forsaken chaotic lore it seems only fitting to thank Arthas for it.
" TL;DR : Blizzard did well in substantiating the necessary gameplay decision of the Nightborne joining the Horde with a logical narrative which withstands and is supported by the tenets of diplomacy and international relations."
I can come with this as well :
" Blizzard did well in substantiating the necessary gameplay decision of the faction war, with Sylvanas burning the Night Elves/worgen civilians, making the Alliance wage war on the Horde with a logical narrative which withstands and is supported by the tenets of lore background, as to why it happened"
“Blizzard did well in substantiating the necessary gameplay decision of Sylvanas being removed as Warchief and rerplaced by Baine with a logical narrative which withstands and is supported by the tenets of her actions during BfA.”
That’s just my opinion.
Thanks for your replies.
Cheers.
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Thank you for this. And yes, I never stop talking straight from my mind. Have done so for many years online. Chaos and struggle are beautiful things with my head-fantasy for games. Ordinary structures of rulership or stereotypical kingdoms have never been my thing. Or conservative fantasy beyond reading LotR books.
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The Horde has many entries to write on her CV of her crimes too!
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Hmm…no, they didn’t.
And if you are to argue such, expose your argument for it.
Because with the Nightborne the plausible and wrapped explanation for their faction choice has consisted on a decent build up supported on a logical and understandable level. As that RL diplomat pointed out.
Read beyond the TLDR, and you’ll see why.
If you are able to argue the same for the current and sudden twist that drove this story into the ground with Sylvanas and/or the Horde, try and do so too.
But as of now, that seems like a rather impossible feat.
Point is: if you think Activision Blizzard is right to put the Nightborne in the Horde than you accept the all package as well.
You can say that rebelling against Sylvanas makes no sense.
Our Alliance counterparts can come and say:
Why the Nightborne should had joined the Alliance and why it makes sense the Horde rebelling against Sylvanas.
You see ?
If we are going to nitpick what makes sense and what not, you might find yourself debating for hours why x part of the lore makes sense and the other part doesn’t.
Your alliance counter part will come with the opposite argument.
That’s why I say leave the lore in the books let people discuss what parts the enjoyed and what not and let the game play be what should always be: a fun game no matter if you play alliance or Horde.
Enough with the silly drama and moral values. we have plenty of that in our real world.
You should not feel bad for playing a faction, character, neither you should be obligated to feel a inquisitor if you are Human Paladin or a bloodthirsty warmongering, savage, ruthless Orc Warrior.
Cheers.
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This doesn’t make sense.
Of course there will be things that make sense while others don’t.
Specially if we are talking about unrelated stuff.
Whether someone likes it or not, is irrelevant.
The Nightborne diplomatic choice makes sense given the factual evidence so far. It was a driven story that was developped and nurtured in a plausible and logical way.
Sylvanas going suddenly “And i’ll paint a giant bullseye on my back by doing genocide in the most open and unnecessary way possible”, “And i’ll start serving Old Gods”, “And i’ll randomly decide to kill Thrall”… doesn’t.
Too many inconsistent leaps.
Those two events are completely unrelated. To have a consistent/logical story doesn’t represent a contingent barrier that demands you should consider ALL the other plots as consistent/logical as the first one.
Nightborne and Sylvanas villany, as presented ingame, are shown as unrelated events. Thus, you can effectively see one as logical without tying yourself to consider both such.
If you want to strike a chord with a logical story development/plot I don’t like, i suggest you use for example Alleria Windrunner and the Void elves.
And i -grudgingly- already accepted it.
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Sorry but they are.
Again that’s why lore written in books should be separated from the story in game.
Because right now everything that is being written on the lore is tied to game play.
Sylvanas going evil is logical to me.
Why ?
There is a faction war, expansion, one must be the evil the other must be good.
One faction has Anduin the other has Sylvanas.
Sylvanas will be the evil character, Anduin the good character.
But everyone will want to play Alliance than.
Just put the Nightborne in the Horde and jobs done.
If you want to play as Nightborne you must play as Horde now.
My old neighbour once told me an yoga exercise:
“Don’t look at the glass, but to his components, how it was made.”
I don’t see BfA as a organic structure, but a abomination made through all of 14 years of lore inconsistencies in the game, all for what ?
For the sake of game play and rule of cool.
Zarao I will be straightly honest with you:
I think you and others dedicate more time to analyse the lore than Activision Blizzard itself …
Cheers.
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