Doing mostly my own groups on the finder unfortunatley i can say that rarely you can see optimal comps or elite players, so you have to do with what you find, but still managed to do KSM.
I don’t mean necessarely remove the downgrade part, but maybe give to the leavers something to get worried with.
None of the below will solve any problems with M+ playerbase, because as someone mentioned above, you can’t patch player behavior. But I like going on wild brainstorms now and then, so here’s a drizzle:
Remove the timer and instead balance the end reward based on the number of deaths.
Remove the key downgrade for finished runs, even if they are at the worst mark. The worst outcome from actually finishing a run should be lack of key upgrade.
3a) When you leave an M+ group that is in an active run, whatever key you have (if any), downgrades by one level. If you’re an elite awesome player, you can just find another group and push it right back up, which is what you’d rather be doing anyway, right? 
3b) Alternatively, upon starting an M+ run, remove everyone’s key from their inventory, and award them a new one at the end of the run (group disbanding also counts as “end of the run”) based on group performance and on the key they had, if any (so going into a +12 run while you own a +5 key, and timing it with one star should get you a +6 rather than a +13).
4a) Allow people to choose the key level they want to run (up to the level they have ofc), and use that as a baseline for end reward. So if I have a +12 key and decide to run a +9 with it, it counts as a +9 run, and timing it with one star should give me a +10 rather than a +13.
4b) Alternatively, allow people to downgrade their keys willingly if they choose to do it. It can sorta already be done by starting a run and then leaving it, but why not streamline the process a bit.
Bananas/10) Alternatively alternatively, and just because I’m feeling a tad vicious today, remove keys entirely and instead let people run any dungeon at any M+ level they qualify for though the dungeon finder tool - so you’ll always be grouped with people who chose the same level. Let people queue up for up to three or so different dungeons/key levels at the same time. Downgrade levels of qualification by 1 per week of inactivity. Premade groups can still be made by those who want to be more particular about who they take.
None of the above will solve any problems with M+ playerbase, because as someone mentioned above, you can’t patch player behavior.
So if someone dies, just restart until we have the perfect run? That won’t breed more toxicity, nope, why would it.
That’s how it already is, though.
So why make it even worse then?
I was feeling a tad vicious at the time of the post.
Note sure, might better - I don’t know why people are defending the current system.
The problem is the vast amount of players destroying keys on end, not doing their part.
Joining the same key to up their score, over and over. Destroying at least 10 keys every hour because they are not getting carried on mechanics.
I call them YOLO-Players.
I usually push my own key, and try to direct it by making routes with notes and drawing for each player in the group. But quite often I get one or two of these YOLO-Players. If its just one, it can be carried, but if its 2 - they key usually ends before the 10 minutes mark, due to missed interrupts, cc and/or ninja-pulls. Tbh it feels like they are just there to look big on meters… (no brain what so ever).
Its these YOLO-Players that needs to be punished - playing 10 minute keys over and over, all day. Hoping to get carried on mechanics.
I don’t know if it would be possible to somehow put a deserter buff on these players if they leave within 10-15-20 minutes? Make it appealing to plan and coordinate before you start, as you wont be able to just destroy another key within 5-10 minutes.
I don’t feel it was this bad in BFA, It didn’t feel that hard to pug 23’s last Xpac.
because they have little of macro understanding.
None of the below will solve any problems with M+ playerbase, because as someone mentioned above, you can’t patch player behavior.
what posts do you read? idc about toxic/leaver players. i care about game mechanics. if you can’t distinguish it please don’t post here. it’s like you are talking to yourself.
the point is very simple. i need a specific key, right now i just queue and w8 for the desired key to be available, or theoretically i can have myself this key (1/8 chance). AND if for some (many many) reason we fail this run key owner get punished and the key is downgraded etc. so this system is just about time wasting, and not you completing the dungeon in time. game rules gate you. maybe you like to be abused by stupid game mechanics it’s up to you ofc.
Seeing as M+ is group content, you don’t have to “queue” solo. Make friends, build a friend network, and you’ll have much higher success rate - and the chances of one of them having a key you need is also bigger the more friends you have.
how does it relate to outdated ingame system? it’s like ._. …
all of you have some kind of stockholm syndrome. i am talking about stuff which can be programmed and you reply to me with social humanitarian crap)
Because you can easily accomplish what you wish with a little bit of socializing, you don’t need to wait for Blizzard to fix something for you, which you can pretty much trivially overcome yourself.
Because being able to choose the the dungeon and the level would just lead to even more toxicity in M+ pugs. Something went wrong? One death? Oh well, just retry the same dungeon, at the same level, with a different group right after. The number of abandoned keys would skyrocket, and that wouldn’t help anybody.
Well no, you can’t. You can’t patch player behavior.
You can maybe stop rewarding toxic competitiveness, but you need to shut down the franchise, wait a few years, and start a new one.
Welcome to modern-day raiding.
if i really try hard i can choose desired key and play it? right now key for specific dungeon and level is a resource, the higher - the more rare. you can complete 5 keys and don’t get the dungeon you want (if you are unlucky). btw look at top tier players, they just play on tournament realm, because they are not idiots to waste time in current system and try to push high keys) they directly practice what they want, why this should be a prerogative of chosen few? everyone should be able to do that, but blizzard wants to make you a slave of the game.
Because being able to choose the the dungeon and the level would just lead to even more toxicity in M+ pugs.
don’t repeat the same false statement all over again. who want’s to leave does it already.
for example. i have some players in contact list with higher rio, i am lower right now, i could ask them for which key they would be up to play, set it and try to do it, the most important part if i do mistakes no ones key would be depleted, we just played and learned from mistakes. i just can’t practice higher keys enough because keys are valuable resource. i don’t understand why people don’t get this. but this value is artificial, and it’s actually creates more toxicity. thats why i am talking about game mechanics and not social aspects.
gl practicing/doing something like this on keys which deplete (you can’t choose)
comment from the video
Is this kinda joke? U are using a bug, moreover, teaching people how to use it. This team should be banned for few weeks
the right mindset for this forum <3 stop progress and innovation and don’t try to think outside the box.
You claim you dislike toxicity but have you seen how you speak to others who are polite to you but disagree with your points .
Maybe you are frustrated but dont be rude to others.
You claim you dislike toxicity
i never did. i always mentioned what i don’t care about toxicity. most of the best players are toxic, so what? “they are not” most of the time just because they are surrounded by equally good players.
I do care about toxicity, because most of the players running keys aren’t the best players, and noone deserves the toxicity so prevalent in pugs. Lets not make it worse. Lets not make it worse for the vast majority, just for the sake of those who - according to your claim - are toxic.
good for you UuU
btw did all 19 now need to do 20 holycrap the gating is unreal queues like 2hours+ just can’t get into anything. tried to push my keys, 20 sanguine before last boss dds went retard and wiped on free skip dude released and we lost like a minute or more, finished after but wasn’t in time and here is the point IF IT WOULDN’T PUNISH YOU AND DELEVEL i would do the run again and again and complete it. there were no problems for me. but with the current system what a clownfest the only thing i really want to do is to uninstall and drop this time draining burden.
got into a decent group blasted +19 sanguine 6 mins left and after timed 20 nv, so it’s all about the opportunity.
There’s always going to be a meta. Period. With all those different specs, there will always be some specs that are just better fit for the job. But that doesn’t mean that weaker specs aren’t “viable” - unless “viable” by your definition means being perceived by the community as the best, which, again, is impossible.
A quick look at this week’s data shows me that ALL specs have already completed a +20. So?!
Well, in the 15+ bracket, Fury Warriors are the second most picked melee (on par with ww monk and havoc dh) by now, in 20+ they come third (after outlaw and monk). So this doesn’t really seem to be a problem with the spec.
That’s why most runs on youtube and twitch are fire mages/sometimes even double balance druid and holy pala.
Its easy to get invite as no meta class when you have friends/guild,good luck getting invite on lfg as offmeta spec (if you dont know people)
Mythic + community became like irl trash people,who judge others based on spec they play.If you play fire mage,holy pala or balance druid,you are cool guy.If you play anything else,you are lower class.