M+, Torghast and The Maw

[Lynlia-silvermoon]

@Visna-silvermoon

On Mythic +
It is understandable that M+ must be a challenge. However, challenges must provide some type of reward to create a motivation to invest in them. The chance of rewards atm is only a 20%-40% per dungeon at best. Assuming a M+ takes 40 mins and is not timed that is only a 20% chance per player, for only 1 piece of loot that is completely RNG based, meaning that if you get lucky enough to get loot (remember, 80% chance of failure to get loot) it might not be an upgrade for you. This is very little reward for a lot of time invested.

M+ in Bfa had the main issue of transforming from “alternative” gearing path to “main gearing path”. Raiders, PvP guys and etc. All were forced to spam M+s like there was no tomorrow to be viable in their own fields(raids or pvp). While I am a m+ runner myself. I understood that it caused the issue of m+ becoming the defacto main gearing path. While raids, rPvP just became “something to do when you are bored from m+” pretty much. And for those who went for high ratings or mythic raids, they pretty much HAD to spam m+s just to be viable.

Blizzard adressed the issue and M+ are no longer a loot pinata as it was before.
M+ rewards less loot but remember that it can be spammed to infinity. While raids = clear it once. Bad luck? Though. Better luck next time.

“Increase the rewards to make it worth it?” Its a very veeery slippery slope there. The line between “alternative gearing path” and becoming the “main gearing path again” is extremely blurry and thin. Since M+s can be spammed to infinity, it HAS to have a drawback to compensate vs raids who can be done once and only once per week.

[Shumensko-azjolnerub (Shumensko)]

They went overboard with the nerfs though, because they nerfed both the quantity and the quality.

[Lynlia-silvermoon]

@Shumensko-azjolnerub

They went overboard with the nerfs though, because they nerfed both the quantity and the quality.

Then they need to approach this taking into account the bigger picture. Since a small buff to m+ can immediately shot m+ into the “throne” like it was in BfA.

And we can troll, criticize disagree with Blizz on 10001 issues. But I support that they recognized m+ being “get your self geared to teeth in 3 days!” avenue…and tried changing it.

I support making m+ as an alternative gearing path for those who don’t like raids, rPvP or just likes doing m+ the most.
But as long as m+ stays an alternative gearing path NOT the main gearing path which trumps other gearing so paths massively. That you even wonder whats the point of the loot outside m+s?

[Wushupanda-outland]

@Murbastic-twilights-hammer

Mythic+ got mount reward what more do u want, gear that u replace next patch?

achievement mounts doesnt count lol. max mythic+ (as always, 15) ALWAYS give mounts. its like curve mount or pvp 2400 mount.

and anyway, who cares about useless mounts. you already got hundreds. most people want to kill stuff and defend themselves (with better gear).

to the main topic:

@Visna-silvermoon

On Mythic +

dont promote the useless anima system. more gear is a must. cooperating with the idea of loot scarcity is a mistake. people are leaving the game because of this.

boreghast is simply boring. it requires huge overhaul.

the maw is FINE as it is.
the maw was always meant to be annoyingly hard. stop the whining, its the one place in the game where its supposed to be hard, and its also not a super important end-game content. that one socket wont change you THAT much anyway.

[Ancelyn-argent-dawn]

@Bonepricker-ragnaros

Ah yes, tell that to 100% walk speed warriors. Takes 2x as long to get anywhere, also because it’s much harder to drop agro.

I had no issues in the Maw on my priest, nor on my shammy, nor on my DK, nor on my warrior, nor on my rogue. They all take roughly the same time to do the weekly chores (except the rogue, that’s faster because it has stealth, and has less weeklies for now :P).

@Bonepricker-ragnaros

The mount is required for the maw

It really is not. I mean, a whole lot of people got exalted and a ton of Stygia before they got any mount.

@Bonepricker-ragnaros

Sockets are more or less required to give you that extra edge when you get BiS gear.

If you want sockets for BiS gear, you’re doing it wrong. When you have BiS gear, you should be farming content, rather than progressing. Sockets are more important for progress, when you don’t have BiS gear yet. Sure, it makes farm faster, and allows you to tackle higher keys (maybe by a level, if everyone’s fully socketed?), but the impact of sockets is considerably bigger when your gear is nowhere close BiS.

[Bonepricker-ragnaros]

@Ancelyn-argent-dawn

I had no issues in the Maw on my priest, nor on my shammy, nor on my DK, nor on my warrior, nor on my rogue. They all take roughly the same time to do the weekly chores (except the rogue, that’s faster because it has stealth, and has less weeklies for now :P).

I’m not even doing the daily chores (nor weekly) because it’s atrocious to get around. It’s already extremely annoying to port back to oribos, so I just use my hearthstone instead.

@Ancelyn-argent-dawn

It really is not. I mean, a whole lot of people got exalted and a ton of Stygia before they got any mount.

And a lot of those people are very unhappy about how slow everything goes.

@Ancelyn-argent-dawn

If you want sockets for BiS gear, you’re doing it wrong.

lol /10chars

[Urgu-the-shatar]

so when are we getting M++ and M+++ ?

[Dotsoffun-draenor (Dotsoffun)]

@Ancelyn-argent-dawn

For quite a few classes and specs, it’s not time consuming at all (I’m close to sub-10 minute runs on layer 8 for example). The followers aren’t useless, the more you have, the more you can send on Anima missions or gold missions or whatever. Soul Ash? That lets you create or upgrade legendaries.

Yes, for some classes. Funny this is coming from the most broken class in WoW right now in ALL aspects of the game xD.

@Ancelyn-argent-dawn

You can complete Twisting Corridors Layer 8 for a maw mount, or farm Shadehounds for a chance on a maw mount (if you don’t want to invest the time and effort into completing TC on L8).

It is possible to mount in the Maw, you just have to put some effort into it.

Again, this is funny coming from a Druid. Did you put in ANY effort to be able to walk around in Travel form whilst in the maw? No, you didn’t. TC can take classes 1.5-3 hours per layer, so it’ll take 13+ hours of in-game time to finally get the mount, and that’s if you don’t fail it. I’ve had 2 fails at floor 16+ on layer 6 atm, so it’s gonna take me longer.

@Ancelyn-argent-dawn

You do realize that we can’t socket every slot, right? If you’ve been farming the Maw daily, you should have enough Stygia by now to buy a socket for almost every socketable slots. If you haven’t been farming the Maw daily, then the benefit of sockets won’t make a difference for you anyway.

A lot of people avoid the maw for the soul reason that they cannot mount. It literally makes 0 sense my mechanical mounts can’t be “called” in the maw. I can kind of understand mounts that are alive, since the maw is a place for the dead, but, mechanical mounts should have 0 fear.
The reason that made you unable to mount is to make things take longer, unless you’re a druid, in which case it has 0 effect. They also made it a reason so people were FORCED into doing Twisting Corridors for the mount (Unless they want to spend hours fighting RNG to the chance of maybe getting the mount) because no one would touch it if it didn’t. In fact, people still avoid it and avoid the maw altogether, because it just takes too much time.

I HATE the maw, it’s the worst zone out of ALL zones to me, but that is MAINLY down to not being able to mount up. It’s too time consuming for terrible rewards, especially when things are costing a lot of Stygia as it is. It also doesn’t help that you can’t farm Stygia, since you’ll eventually have tier 5 of the eye, stopping you from doing anything.

Blizzard have gone ahead and time-gated EVERYTHING possible in this expansion. For some things, it’s pretty decent and is a good change, but a lot of things are being time-gated for the sake of making their game feel like it’s got longevity. Without time-gating, this game would feel almost empty.

[Ororo-azjolnerub]

@Shumensko-azjolnerub

Anima was made useless for power on purpose to discourage players from an endless grind like AP in BfA and Legion.

and yet, somehow, it’s the only thing you can reliably grind…

[Visna-silvermoon]

@Wushupanda-outland

dont promote the useless anima system. more gear is a must.

It was just a suggestion to put some ideas on the table. I do not care whether it is a currency guaranteed grind for REAL upgrades, or more chance of gear. Clearly just from my suggestion there are people giving answers such as ‘‘just time the M+’’ or ‘‘if more gear are given then nobody will care for raids’’. If that is their philosophy then it will be hard for us to get listened to by Devs because we are not all a united voice.

About the Maw, I was simply bringing up an ongoing issue that a lot are complaining about. Using a mount, and farming for sockets. But again, some people think it’s easy to farm for sockets. I do not agree, since to get x2 sockets for example, you need a good 15000 Stygia. Unless someone comes and tells me you can farm that in let’s say 2 weeks, I will consider it a long grind. And that’s for just x2 sockets. How much would you need for 6 sockets? You would need to grind for a few months, every single day.

[Wushupanda-outland]

i didnt want to come out as offensive, but it just bothers me that even though very early on blizzard clearly stated many times the maw is a different place than the rest of wow. its a place where players will have a hard time and will not get to travel the place and do whatever they want there, and yet players completely ignore that and ask for the same thing that exist in every other zone of wow.

the maw is 100% as it should be. risky and annoying place.

[Murbastic-twilights-hammer (Murbastic)]

Normal guy 11k achivs saying care about mounts, this game progress is about mounts and achivs only, gear gets replaced each patch, get good.

[Blázer-lightnings-blade]

@Murbastic-twilights-hammer

Normal guy 11k achivs saying care about mounts, this game progress is about mounts and achivs only, gear gets replaced each patch, get good.

If i had that outlook on the game i would just unsub instantly…

I could not care less about mounts or achives.

I just wanna increase my gear and damage.

[Coopslv-aszune]

I don’t get it about the loot thing. I am 204 ilvl already which is above what M+10 drops but I have only done three +10 dungeons. So it doesn’t seem to be issue.

[Murbastic-twilights-hammer (Murbastic)]

U can after next patch ur gear gets resetted.

[Ancelyn-argent-dawn]

@Bonepricker-ragnaros

I’m not even doing the daily chores (nor weekly) because it’s atrocious to get around

Yet, you’re still playing those chars, so it seems the Maw isn’t all that important for them, thus, neither is being able to mount.

@Dotsoffun-draenor

Yes, for some classes

Well, I finish layer 8 at most in 25 minutes on: 210 resto druid (11 min is my fastest at the moment), 205 VDH (13 min), 168 disc priest (19 min), 170 resto shammy (21 min), 169 warrior (22 min).

I guess all of those are broken…

@Dotsoffun-draenor

Again, this is funny coming from a Druid

Read the rest of my post. I’m doing Maw weeklies on multiple classes, without a mount, and compared to the druid, the difference in how much time it takes isn’t much.

@Dotsoffun-draenor

Did you put in ANY effort to be able to walk around in Travel form whilst in the maw?

Most of the time, I’m not in travel form, though. I’m in stealth, because that’s considerably faster than travel form. In travel form, I get in combat, which sucks, because I don’t want to kill stuff I don’t need to - that takes time, and bumps up Eye of the Jailer. I’ll rather stealth around and kill only what I need. Faster, safer, better.

Works even better on my rogue, because I can do the objectives faster than as resto, and I have more ways to drop combat there, too.

@Dotsoffun-draenor

A lot of people avoid the maw for the soul reason that they cannot mount

So they consider it not worth the effort. That’s fine. Don’t do it then.

@Dotsoffun-draenor

In fact, people still avoid it and avoid the maw altogether, because it just takes too much time.

And that’s fine. You don’t need to do everything, if you deem it not worth it. I’m not going to touch Twisting Corridors, because even on my non-druid/non-worgen chars, I don’t have problems getting around the Maw once a week.

@Wushupanda-outland

the maw is 100% as it should be. risky and annoying place.

Yup. Tha Maw is meant to be hostile. It was very clearly marketed as such. And it delivered wonderfully.

[Wushupanda-outland]

@Ancelyn-argent-dawn

Yup. Tha Maw is meant to be hostile. It was very clearly marketed as such. And it delivered wonderfully.

wow, finally. i thought i was the only one who actually listened to how they described the maw before release.

[Bonepricker-ragnaros]

@Wushupanda-outland

@Ancelyn-argent-dawn

Yup. Tha Maw is meant to be hostile. It was very clearly marketed as such. And it delivered wonderfully.

wow, finally. i thought i was the only one who actually listened to how they described the maw before release.

It’s isn’t hostile, just annoying

[Wushupanda-outland]

@Bonepricker-ragnaros

@Wushupanda-outland

@Ancelyn-argent-dawn

Yup. Tha Maw is meant to be hostile. It was very clearly marketed as such. And it delivered wonderfully.

wow, finally. i thought i was the only one who actually listened to how they described the maw before release.

It’s isn’t hostile, just annoying

as the americans say: “Potatoes Potatos”

[Ancelyn-argent-dawn]

@Bonepricker-ragnaros

It’s isn’t hostile

I dunno about you, but pretty much everything in there wants to kill me. (Ve’nari too, she sends me to nasty, nasty places. She’ll just use me first.)

@Bonepricker-ragnaros

just annoying

Being annoying on purpose is quite a hostile thing to do.