My fellow Paladins will hate me for saying this, but I think Holy should be completely AoE or cast heal focused. Not both

You are not casting that much, do you? Most stuff is done by instants with holy shock, word of glory and some light of the martyrs.

Healing between 5-7k HP with all the instant heals is not very good, considering most have 45k+ HP.

Meanwhile all the cast heals do twice the healing amount and are the only really viable healing on the spec. It feels super fragile.

Your “recommendations” are either asking for straight buffs in certain abilities, that will have the impact of reducing the power of holy elsewhere, or things that actually already are implemented.

For example:

If this is implemented, they would either need to nerf HP generation elsewhere, or reduce the power of finishers.

Now here, what you are asking does not make sense, as the cost of LoD is 3 HP (2 if we are talking about your suggestion). It will NEVER spend more HP to trigger the second effect you are saying.
And lastly:

You can actually just do that, since DF is outside the GCD, all you have to do is include it in a macro with HL, and every 45 seconds it will cast it and buff the next heal. It will be suboptimal but will behave the way you want it to.

Generally speaking, with all due respect and without wanting to offend you, I do not feel that you have spent enough time to accumulate the knowledge required for your suggestions to be taken seriously. I do not say “I” do not take them, but that I feel that the problems you have do not come from the class design, but suboptimal ways you play.

Is this since the new talent tree? Since word of glory was your big heal in shadowlands. And light of the martyr when you spammed it you highest hps on a short notice.

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That’s not true. Rouges have a Finisher move that does, based on number of combo points, deal more damage. Why would LoD do not the same when coded right for more heal?

Well, as I said in the main post, I have no experience with the spec and don’t want to collect any more with it, simply because the gameplay loop and rotation is simply not fun to play because you have to play 2 different playstyles at once.

It still is, I was speaking of the AoE heal Light of Dawn. Word of Glory is single target and doesn’t heal more than 1 target without extra perks active.

Yeah but you have so little experience that you actually make false assumptions, as there is a way to play melee with just instant heals in melee range without having to cast stuff.
Also, you understand that by saying that you “do not want to collect any more experience” in the spec, while asking for changes, just gets the message across that you are not serious.

Try to step into the shoes of a developer. You can either take feedback and focus on the changes from:

  • Long term players that have spent time to master the spec in and out, learning its intricacies and giving you their hard earned money every month for years.

  • A player that not only does not know the ins and out of the spec and game, but also refuses to spend time to learn the spec.

Sorry but if you are not prepared to learn the specs and the game, how do you expect others to take your suggestions seriously?

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Oh, I am totally being serious here.

It is not about being prepared to “learn” the spec. Because that :poop: is easy af. The problem I am expressing here is that playing Holy Paladin is simply not fun for me BECAUSE of the split focus on melee and range AoE and single target healing

You understand that EVERY healing has BOTH single target AND aoe heals in his kit. And this is because there are several different end game modes (rbgs, arenas, m+, raid), if ANY healer had focus on either AoE OR st healing, then he would be viable ONLY for some of those mods.
If you tune the paladin to focus on AoE healing, then he would be bad for m+/arenas.

But anyway, at the end of the day, as you said:

The outcome to that is that holy paladin is not for you. The solution is not for the developers to change the spec that other people like, but for you to find something you like.

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Since we have those lovely skill trees now back again, Blizzard could Healers just allow to create their own builds focused on the specific activity as they advertised.

But I guess that far thinking is for some too much when commenting here.

That’s why I stick to Protection and Retribution and never touch Holy. But don’t be surprised when it takes AGES to find healers in matchmaking and LFG because of such design flaws.

Rofl, that’s quite a stretch. There’s not a lack of healers in pug environments due to people not liking holy paladins playstyle.

I tried playing holy paladin in season 1 and then season 3, realized it’s not for me with how much I hate holy power and decided to just go holy priest, resto druid or resto shaman. Currently pretty much only playing holy priest.

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I mained holy paladin since BFA end of s1 till Shadowlands s2 and i can’t say i got your experiences. And i timed up to like M+ 23 :thinking: I stopped playing it because i hated the tier set with the light of dawn gameplay, and rerolled (back) to shaman.

And if you wanted to AOE heal more, Kyrian divine toll was pretty AOE healing. And if you combined that with beacon gameplay (BoV or BoF), you had a lot of AOE healing by just healing 1 player.

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You clearly didn’t read the sentence fully and understood it. That’s ok. Language can be a funky thing sometimes.

What I meant is, that designing class specs in a certain way can (and potentially will) result in players being driven off by the design.

Sure, other healers do exist in the game and there is surely no problem in finding one. But by Design a crucial class like a healer should not be designed more complicated than a damage dealer, because that just prevents players from wanting to fill that role.

For example, let us say Holy Paladin would be (just for this example) the only healer class in-game. Not many would play it. Group content would be unbearable to play for others due to the high matchmaking times. People would feel forced to play it just to improve matchmaking/group finding times.

The design flaw is, that playing Holy Paladin feels not as good and fun as playing Retribution or Protection. While Protection and Retribution are basically almost faceroll easy, Holy is the opposite. It feels weak, complicated and confusing. You feel like you have not enough impact compared to other classes.

You have no utilities like a healing field you can deploy on range or a totem that auto heals on a specific range (like Druid and Monks have) to make it easier for you to manage healing allies that run around or stand far away. Sure, you have your litte AoE heal Dawn of Light that can be exceeded to 40 yards range with a talent, but that just means nothing due to the way how Mastery works.

So? They can just play another class or spec then.

I play a holy priest because I like how they play, a lot. Especially now that flash concentration is going away.

I simply don’t play the specs or classes I don’t like. I gave holy power holy paladin a try twice and it’s not for me so I don’t play it.

Likewise in other games, I like playing moira in OW because of how she plays. I also like playing mercy.

I don’t like playing lucio or zenyatta, so I don’t play them.

I really don’t understand why someone would play a class or spec that they don’t enjoy.

I suppose you are not a healer then. To me holy is way easier than any dps spec or tank spec.

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Op, you shouldnt be so toxic. In fact its not “they” who dont understand your wonderfull m3ssage but you who are staying hardly on your position that is based on false beliefs. As you mentioned above you have no experience on that spec. If you spend some time to learn it you would be surprised - you cast heals only if you do something wrong. I dont know how it plays after prepatch but when I was playing s1 and s2 I was never casting heals in m+. Only when I didnt know how to play properly or when I wanted to watch holy light animation cause its looking really cool. You swing in melee and use all instant spells to heal - they heal more than enough. I watched streams of higher keys and I literally never seen any healing casts. So its not pala which is unfun - its you who play him wrong. Also making paladin only melee aoe healer will delete it from one of the most popular content in the game - m+ with pugs and from the less popular but beloved by so much players - pvp. Did you ever try any other healers? Comparing fun on retribution and prot with holy is not correct at all - you compare different roles. You will never have the same fun while playing retri and holy. Not because holy is bad - just because healers and dpsers offer you different kind of fun.

I dont understand you. You b**** about holy paladins, then your reply is: I will never play any healer in this game.
Here’s that attention you ordered!

It’s kind of a hard expectation for someone to level a completely different class with different playstyle in general (for example, ranged due to cloth/leather armor and being squishy) and also sustaining that character with gear and builds just to be able to play a healer.

I picked Paladin back in BfA especially for that reason that it is a melee class with healer option as role. My Paladin here am posting with is my main character. I don’t have time and interest in leveling/playing an alt just to have with a different role fun in this game.

You must be insane then, like the people that eat salty popcorn in cinemas instead of sweet popcorn.

I am not toxic. The fact you use that word in this context makes it also clear you probably don’t know what a “toxic person” even is. Here a short definition from the Urban Dictionary:

Basically an individual (or individuals) who has A very negative and self-intitlement disorder outlook in life. They are never happy and always want more and more. They are very cunning and Securetrust, you don’t see it coming till it’s too late. They often feel the “happiest” over other people misery and loss, and even work to make those thing happen. It can be someone as close as your own wife, to all way to more distant relatives. Tends to be those that always have to be taken care of and attention must always be given. They are very dangerous and you must stay away from them, they will literally drain you from all your energy and financial resources, thru various methods and combinations of “Love-Hate-love-Hate” cycles designed to confuse you and ultimately break you down.

Yeah, go try play it now. Without Divine Toll. It is literally horrible. Back in S1/S2 you could use Divine Toll without having to skill for it and make sacrifices. Now you have to, to keep using it. Playing without it is making AoE heal play impossible.

Not (and I said this now multiple times in this thread) if the talent system allows players to skill the way they want on either Hybrid or completely AoE/Single Target heals.

I have played enough games to know that what I suggested can work. Sadly, you and others simply cannot imagine having a melee-only healer in this game without any spell casts. You and others prefer “click raid frames and heal people” like some sort of paperwork management system. That’s fair, your taste. Not going to argue with that.

But fact is, that Holy Paladin simply doesn’t fulfill that “melee healer” role as some players looking for that kind of gameplay would imagine it to work.

We have 6 damn healing specs in this game (Priest Holy/Discipline, Shaman Restoration, Druid Restoration, Monk Mistweaver, Paladin Holy). Is it too much asked to have Paladins be melee only, when there are 5 other specs in this game that can offer enough range/hybrid play for those looking for that? Is that really too much asked for?

If you call that b****.ing, then you have no idea what actual b****.ing looks like.

It is not insane. Because we healers have heal and dps buttons instead of only dps buttons, both are very simplified.

Beacon of virtue is your AOE friend.

Why?

I’ve lvled all the classes except warlock and monk to 60 to see what I like or don’t like. I know I don’t like warlock just from trying it at low lvl and monk I lvled to 50 back in BFA.

I’ve maintained my horde priest, my resto shaman and this druid in regards to gear this season though I’m mostly playing my priest now, while also getting some gear for my alliance priest for DF lvling if I decide to play alliance.