Mythic Dungeons: What if we had a tracker system for leavers instead of penalties?

Community General Discussion
21

I’ll play “Devil’s Advocate” for a minute here …

There are some very legitimate reasons why a player could leave an in-progress M+ keystones, things like power outage, ISP crapping out, IRL emergency (familly, fire in the house, and so much more), and we cannot know what happened without waiting and actually talking/writing about it with the concerned person.

There are also players, called “griefers” or other such derogatory terms that actually take pleasure in preventing other players from enjoying the game.

And finally, there are players out there that care only about their M+ Rating and Win/Loss ratio, the size of their epeen on Damage Meters, and their own ego. Those types of players will leave a key at the first sign of things not going in the perfect way, and my “ignore list” is getting at least three more names everyday because of that behaviour.

But even if I find that way of playing toxic, counterproductive and detrimental to my enjoyment of the game, it’s STILL a perfectly valid and legal way to play according to that long chart of acceptable behaviours that almost nobody ever reads.

Short version : too many valid reasons for a player to leave a M+ run in the middle of things, not enough manpower to track all the people that leave and ask for their reasons, and there’s already penalties in place (cannot join another group for 30 minutes if you just left mid-progression). And it would do nothing against said toxic players that enjoy the suffering of other people.

22

there is also 1 huge group that you deliberately missed

weak underperforming players not knwoing a single mechanic in dungeon but stull hoping to get free boost from other 4 people.

and in most cases they are the reason for failed keys.

im all for implementing tracker for leaving keys - as long as we get also tracker letting others score performnce of others in the dungeon .

23

To be perfectly honest, I do fit under the “weak, underperforming” category, but I try to get as much knowledge of mechanics and dungeons as possible before trying to go in a PUG.

I’ve been told several times “mechanics are for noobs, just do damage”, and I know by bitter personnal experience that that DOES NOT work !

I also know why I’m in the “weak, underperforming” category : I’m rather old (49), my reflexes are not perfect, and depending on the composition of the PUG I must wait between 3 and 6 seconds before opening fire (to let some of the Tank specs build their threat), followed by needing 9 seconds of building up my stacks of Frenzy before I can reach peak efficiency with my Familiars (that do more than 70% of my total DPS).

With all that, in low-ish keys, some trash pack fights are finished before I can reach “fully boosted max potential”, and that leaves me in a position of having a low M+ score, a low-ish iLVL, and a “bad reputation”.

This week affix, Afflicted, means I’m mostly useless with the only spec I know well enough to potentially perform efficiently.

I’m not complaining, I know my mistakes and limitations and I’m working on them, but I’m starting to be completely fed up and demotivated by being forced to PUG all the time.

And finding a stable premade group to play with is getting harder, in part due to my own health issue (sick as hell, I should have lots of time to play, but sometimes my body won’t allow me to get out of my bed), and in part due to different goals ingame.

I would love to be able to compete for that 0.1% title, but without a dedicated premade group, it’s just not possible … and my (lack of) luck with the Great Vault and loot drop means I’m still using my iLVL 415 S1 Tier Set, because I haven’t found a single better piece yet !

1 Like
24

If blizzard can expose your m+ rating, it can also expose the number of times you have left a dungeon before completion and show it in group finder tab.

25

As long as I get to write a comment on your profile that is permanent and people can see why I left your group sure.

1 Like
26

This is a form of a penalty, just community-imposed. It has the same problems as every leaver penalty before it: What do you do about AFK, fake DC, griefing until it’s safe to leave, etc.

(also the idea is not new, albeit less frequently echoed than the usual lifetime decapitation for leavers threads)

27

so when we will discuss similiar penalties for underperformers and people wanting free boosts ?

because there is more of those then ever since actual good players moved to +20s

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28

Being friendly and refusing to leave is somehow indicative of a key being timed apparently.

How about we punish players that won’t interrupt. Players that fail mechanics. Classes that can dispel and just refuse to take the talents. DPS that won’t DR

People wouldnt be so toxic and leave, if you weren’t so garbage. “Toxic” players want to time keys also

29

I mean if he was 440 and probably had a lot of keys done, how can he not hold any aggro?
because you would never complete a key.

depending on the tank class, you also only need to press 2-3 buttons to keep aggro.

but i had evokers and rets steal aggro from me in the first globals because they feel the need to blast before i am even in melee range

also my ilvl 400 warrior holds better aggro than my 440 brewmaster (unless i through the barrel)

30

Because people suck. I frequently die when I’m playing DPS because tanks can’t hold aggro unless I’m sitting around twiddling my thumbs for several seconds at the start of a pull if I have my CDs ready and even then I’ve died mid-pull to aggro. Like first pull in freehold I usually just bubble at the start because I’m going to die otherwise.

Like, a lot of tanks that I’ve played with are doing like 60-70k dps on that pull while I can easily pull 350k+ dps on it as retri and I’m only 430 something on it so far, 60-70k dps just isn’t enough damage from the tank to keep aggro from someone doing like 5-7 times their dps. Meanwhile when I’m playing prot, I’m doing like 150-230k dps on that pull. Last one I tanked I was at 229k dps on that pull.

I haven’t ever been able to just go all out in any key with pug tanks when dpsing as retri because I just end up dying constantly if I try to.

Pretty much all of his keys at that level or above for that dungeon were depleted with several minutes over time and he had 2x more depleted keys than timed keys over all dungeons. I can’t imagine that’s just bad luck, he his the contributor because he sucks at tanking.

edit: Checking him up now, he still hasn’t completed it at that key level in time and he’s racked up a lot more depleted keys. He has applied to keys we’ve put up in LFG several times and every time I have to remind my friend to not take him and what happened in that vortex.

31

I am playing brew. What else can you do than drop the statue and taunt it, and try to do as much damage as you can… when a dps instant goes wild the tank is nowhere.

32

Geared evoker can press 3 buttons and easily do like 700-800 k Opener burst there. There is no tank in game besides maybe paladin using shield for solely aoe agro to be able to keep it .

At this point people who burst liek this are just vommiting seppuku if they dont let tanks build up agro first

Agro is definetly issue sometimes in good geared groups

33

But there should be also tracker for how many times someone failed basic stuff :smiley:
you can’t punish one side and the other would be ok

34

I am not sure if that could be implemented in any efficient way in the game without making it gradually slow and laggy for the group at some points with high mob density.

35

Everything can be done if you are willing to do the work :smiley:
i will be for punishing leavers but first there needs to be a system that will tell you WHY that person left the key.
Things are not black and white

36

okay, but why did anyone invite him then?

I mean I saw a LOT garbage dds that has high rio, because how easy it is to get carried even by pugs to a +20, but so far I did not get a lot of tanks that were really terrible.
And yea like you said, terrible tanks deplete their keys, but I would also imagine that most people would just leave the group, especially on higher keys as it is all about score?

If I join a group and spot a potato from a mile ago I will leave before the key.

I don’t know whether you do or not, but playing all tanks, some tanks struggle more with pull aggro than others and if you have to collect 3 groups while people already start blasting the first 3 mobs, it can get messy quickly.
Protpala can build range aggro quite easily, while prot warrior and brewmaster cannot. On the other hand prot warrior presses 1 time thunderclap with cds and got aggro of 20 mobs. This only works on brew if you throw your 1min brew, otherwise keg smash and whirlwind thingy doesn’t do jack to hold aggro. With rets and evokers i even have to play the pathetic statue to aoe taunt on pull…

37

I didn’t invite him, my friend did. He doesn’t check people’s runs before he invites, he just checks their ilvl, score and highest key done for the dungeon in-game, lol. I frequently have to warn him to not invite someone if I’m actively looking at people in the queue.

As for why others invite him, idk.

I play blood DK & prot paladin. Can’t say I’ve had any DPS die on that pull due to aggro in any keys I’ve tanked. I use shocking disclosure potion(and abomination limb on my dk) before the key starts if I haven’t forgotten to restock and then pop all offensive CDs I have, maybe I pop stat potion as well if I think it’s worth.

38

Imo the simplest solution would be to have a group log feature where players can send in a feedback report (not a ban report or something) to the group leader with check-box points why they left a group if they wished to.

This should be something optional imo tho. Having a check-box quiz before leaving a group would just annoy people.

That of course not. But it is a fact that the more code a game has to run the slower it becomes in its performance.

If the game (both client and server) would have to constantly check various aspects like missed kicks and interrupts (that would require a tracking function in the first place too) and avoidable AoE and such for each player in a 5-player group and that on the scale of several thousands, maybe hundret thousands (or more) at the same time and writing those things down into individual character logs on both client and server side…

I am sure it would massively increase the data traffic and workload for the servers. And that could result in similar unresponsiveness like the World Bosses in Shadowlands caused… And remember, that was back then without an (imaginary) tracking system for every missed spell/kick/interrupt/CC/AoE/etc.

So make that perhaps 2x the struggle.

39

:smiley: So this needs to happen otherwise you can’t have leaver punish sytem in place

40

That’s not correct. Because a leaver tracking system only checks for 2 conditions instead of like 8 or more. In the leaver tracking system it only checks for:

  • Player in Group
  • Player left group early

It would be like around 1/5 of the amount of things that need to be checked by the system and most importantly only once per run per player. Unlike an ability/failure tracker, that would have to check 30+ abilities every few seconds for the entire dungeon run.