You will not get Highborne customizations 100%
I am pretty sure you will get some antlers but highborne customizations no no no!
You tree hugging hippies want everything.
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The problem with this, which is why I oppose this, is that for all intensive purposes, their is literally no difference between Night Elves and their Highborne upper class.
Dwarven Archaeologists have even said that the Highborne look no different, albeit having pastier skin.
You can look up Shenâdralar Zealot or Royal Handmaiden and literally create them, via making a Night Elf.
Itâs possibly the reason why we havenât got any playable High Elves. Albeit eye-colour, we literally have no differences between them and Blood Elves.
Blizzard already shown multiple times that allied races is more about culture and lore background rather than actual difference in race.
Gnomes and mechagnomes are just culture difference and how they view their past because itâs all same race. Or if this example doesnât convince you look no further than Kul tiras, Yup! Itâs just an obese human that comes from Jaina Proudmore home town. So the backstory and the extra customization to look more queen Azhara type of look does indeed sound good application for allied race, even if it means add an upgrade version of the old models.
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Yes, for races that are known to have differences in appearance, like Gnomes and Mechagnomes.
Night Elves and Highborne are not two separate races. âHighborneâ is a term for âupper class.â Itâs like saying the people of London are of higher class than those from Manchester. Both sets of people are all still human, but one is off higher wealth and class than the other.
And the Nightborne already provide that âHighborne allied raceâ through their way of life, in a large city, with lots of arcane magic, in comparison to their night elf kin, who prefer forests and trees, whilst also looking slightly different.
As an elf fan, I can say that I am more than happy with the number of playable elven races. We donât need High Elves, Highborne, Sanâlayn or anything like that. Itâs just adding more layers to something that weâve already got, twice over.
Also, having people make characters that look like huge lore characters, like Azshara, Tyrande, Malfurion, Illidan, Jaina, Lorâthemar, Sylvanas etc - thatâs not needed. Itâs actually better that huge lore characters, like these, stand out with their models.
Yes, but I would say the high elves are more remembered for the events that led to the exile. Think about it, theyâd have had 3,000 years to get over the WotA stuff, and they would not exactly be considered like the other palace highborne who became Satyrs and naga.
Also we know most of the non-Darhâremar highborne did agree with the druids and like the Moonguard and all the other night elves, did not use the arcane to summon the demons. WE know many Darnassian highborne who had picked up druidsm for example picked up the highborne mantle when the Shenâdralar returned and were accepted. [This is official lore]
WE also see Vereesa not liking the night elves at all in Suramar, the high elf camp is distinctly separate and she makes biting comments against them.
I still think the void elves can bridge the gap though, the dark side of the moon stuff is very arcane /void , as opposed to the moonlight which is largely arcane+light. Furthermore, the void elves should find it much easier to relate to the highborne, in particular the Shenâdralar who dominate and lead that group and would be in a sense the highest echelon of it.
There is som trust yes, we see high elves seeking night elvn areas out in classic - wotlk , Flora Longears is seen in Darnassus at some point. She isnât the only one. I would think the Thermaore high elves durin gthe sunwell dispersion period would have been drawn to moonwells, although the night elves would have likely driven them away. Not the druids mind, more the sentinels who express more of the contempt as seen in the cata pre-event in Darnassus and ofc Maiev, who Wolfheart shows to be the source of the anti-highborne sentiment - 10k years have passed, and while they remember, Wolfheart shows many are willing to move on.
Must be noted that the Shenâdralar arenât the palace highborne group though, and most of the Darnassians who dropped the status to stay on course with the Vigilâs tasks, would no longer be remembered in that light. Especially the Darnassian ones.
*** it must be exciting for them to rekindle their first love. Ever thought from the perspective of a Darnassian highborne (not the Shenâdralar leaders - the ones who were with the survivors and agreed with the druids in laying of arcane to protect the world) - they flocked back to their caste when the ban was lifted, they must have been excited⌠and should be respected amongst both druids and priest alike.
I would like to see both the Shenâdralar perspective, and the returning Darnassian highborne perspective, While Wolfheart showed the Night elves against the move were quite small and stoked by Maiev, still I can imagine it was forward thinking night elves looking to the future but combating those still hung up on the past and trying to convince them to move on. THese returned highborne must have been a vital bridge between the two groups in the Cata years.
By WoD/Legion we see the mages far better integerated and no such hint of the problems. Maiev is exiled and wanted for the murders she committed. However by the end of Legion, sheâs also u-turned, she has relaised her error - first was with Khadgar, where her hatred is responsible for allowing Gulâdan in, then she is the one that frees the demon hunters. You can only conclude that Maiev has not realised she was wrong, since if you read Illidan the novel, she was convinced they were evil personified and legion agents .
We know she was wrong. But it isnât till legion that she is shown to recognise that even though she never openly says it.
I think the high elves still resent them, if Vereesa is anything to go by. But I donât believe all do. I canât imagine Alleria or Umbric for example resenting them, but even drawn tot hem. However not all will be like that. it is worth exploring.
I donât think the kaldorei have a problem with the Darnassian Quelâdorei whoâd been amongst them upholding the ban for 10k years and now returned. I also think the problems with the Shenâdralar are long over. I think this would have been problemeatic during the events of the cataclysm,but once Maiev is uncovered to be behind this heinous crime almost killing Malfurion, that event would have sped up the full acceptance of the Shenâdralar whoâs initial reception was shown to be quite mixed.
Remember the night elves need the arcane back. Tyrande recognises this, the Darnassian highborne prove their were many eager amongst the night elves, and there is a story of a priestess too, which indicates that around cata, some of the priesthood would start exploring their arcane heritage again recognising it was time to proeperly recover their legacy or at least be integerated with it.
Now I donât think all night elf society would care, the druids are pretty removed in the forests largely doing natureâs work in the dream and waking world, the highborne return really does nothing for them. In fact they seem the most trusting. Malfurion is the main advocate for the returning highborne and uniting the night elven remnant. The druid in Ferals is the one that urges the adventuerer to seek out the highborne, Estulan. Noting he is uncorrupted. We see no evidence of druid hate.
The night elven nature users like Farodin and Rensar in Suramar and ValâSharah are more concenred with balance and saving night elven kind, and combating hubris than they have any problem with arcane usage. The Valewalker employs the arcane to create the Arcanâdor.
They donât have to. The Shenâdralar have been part of the story long before void elves, draenei on the alliance side. The existence of the blood elves and Nightborne no longer factor as theyâre horde side now.
The Shenâdralar also give the night elves a proper basis for the earcane legacy of the race, which is a grand one. Without the Shenâdralar and the highborne, the night elves lose their arcane lore and the dark elf part of htem, they end up being generic forest elves. Things like the star and the moon, take on only a natural nature view, rather than the high magic, high fantasy wielding it is portrayed as when we see priests using starfall, and druids casting star magic. As seen in the Nightborne, we also know that this is a very prominent part of the night elf magical legacy.
In this it is quite unique to the magic of humans, high elves, draenei - who all have their own identifying fills.
e.g. Humans and high elves are more the frost magic , kirinâtor sort of thing
Blood elves - are where fire magic and blood arcane seem to be their unique thing
Draenei - arcano crystal and magi-tech seem to be their forte.
Night elves /Nightborne - star/moon magic, arcane grande - is theirs.
Trolls - arcanitols which is a hybrid magic user.
This gives magecraft quite a good variation just like other classes like priests, hunters, rogues will have where some society have heavier emphasis on scouting or intelligence and reconnaissance, others on assassination and others still on piracy and banditry etc.
And lose a chance to expand on the arcane star/moon magic, the great night elf civilization? THe whole point of having it was showing how much superior elven magic is and how different it was in their world. It makes the night elf world
- Very elven and magical
- Very unique.
Why lose that? The existence of the Nightborne is evidence how different it can look and feel. Look at Suramar and the nighthold casters, look at the Moonguard - Moonlances, Starblades, Astromancers - etc, these are common themes their, and largely unique to night elf kind (some blood elves have been seen to be astromancers bear in mind - but far more moon/star magic related themes in night elf magic.
I agree here. They have already envisioned a unique intense wing of magic for the night elves. Theiir lore puts the night elf arcane as the most advanced magic. It was 10k years ago, and the Shenâdralar and Nightborne were the only two coomuniteis that survived the sundering intact, and kept on using their magics with records until resent. Though the Shenâdralar city was sacked recently, most of their libraries gone. However the knowledge would be with the survivors, it is their most prised possiession, and while the mbooks would have been lost, they would have had other means of preserving their knowledge.
The return of the Nightborne also means the horde have access to similar knowledge. Although the Shenâdralar are the more academic society, and were the group of magical innovaters that kept the Queen adored and wondered.
I can imagine Azshara obsessed with really amzing her people, and all her ideas would be passed to her most revered arcanists to process and develop. She would also press them to come up with lots of new and fascinating things, they were likely the best at it to.
Basically in the Shenâdralar blizzard potentially gave the night elves the most advanced arcane group, and the one most capable of rebuidign their great cities for them - as they would have been the ones innovating a lot of the stuff for the queen while she obsessively studied the well.
It is also fitting. The way I see the Nightborne is giving a snapshot of the night elves on the horde. THeir emphasis being the arcane side. The Nightborne are an allied race, not a core race, their existence shouldnât preclude or exclude the night elven arcane lore and facet at all. We should see the best version of that with the night leven highborne group, What it truly was like back then when nature and the arcane were in harmony, you had great magic and great nature. THe Nightborne living in a bubble for 10k years would have changed a little, such that nature might not be as large as it was.
Still as night elven stock, their nature love is certainly there, and stronger than we see in the Thalassian elf. they have gardens (more so than Silvermoon), they have active botanists studying nature and arcane magic - we fight the High Botanist in the nighthold, and their salvation comes in the arcanâdor developed by the druid half of the Valewalker order fusing nature and arcane equally.
To me this is to show that the Nightborne themselves shouldnât be without nature love or even Mono Preist influence, however it is in the Darnassiasn we should see the fullness of this.
I can imagine a new night elf city pretty much like how we see ZinâAzshari in the warbringers video⌠lush, full of forests, gardens, trees, some on top of buildings, , it feels like a full on proper city, and yet also like a garden paradise.
This is the fusion of the best of the dark elf and forest elf you really want to see. And it is intresting that this was the night elf city pre-invasion as they drifted more to largely arcane obsession, they lost balance and it had disastrous consequences they should be able to avoid properly now.
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This is true physiologically, unless you create one, like they did for the Nightborne (which is why everyone is surprised theyâre not with the night elves -itâs like that was your highborne allied race).
They can ofc create one, they have the Farondis, whose unique situation can be the source of a modified appearance with extra features, gained in a great restoration story - shadowlands can hold the key to bringing these back.
Otherwise, youâre right, there is no physiological difference, what they can do is make them slimmer, give them prettier faces, stylish and extravagant hairstyles and beards so they look pretty, rich and high class.
Change their stance (similar to the Nightborne one or give them another variation) , then add some interesting ornamentation.
That is a very good point. But also note that some allied races could have been customisations too. Kulâtiran could have been a cusotmisation of larger human - even though it was a full model rework.
The converse is true, both Illidari (demon hunters) and Undead (Death Knights) could have been allied races ofc. Illidari can still end up being a night elf customisation for warlocks - they are instead class specific customisations, Undead could have been a faction even. same with Illidari to a lsesser extent, but Illidari really are only demon hunters and can easily be warlocks. Although you could also make them warriors, rogues, mages, priests and thus an allied race. They do however make unique class customisation for a night elf demon hunter and a warlock.
Still you are right highborne can be an allied race, make them thinner, change the stance, and give them pretty faces with ornamentioans, will work but also it can be a customisation. Even the thinner appearance can be a customisation like how the demon hunter Illidari is. One that is available also only on certain classes, mage obviously, hunter/rogue/warrior and priest could be other possibilities.
However as an allied race, it would be better for their lore. You could properly explore them as a people later on, show and exalt a specific facet of the night elf, give to the alliance night elves what was in a sense given to the horde. And youâd have an easier time doing it as people would have done Suramar and been a lot more familiar now with that side of the night elves.
However, the exact same can be done as a customisation, with just as much detail and arguably less work.
We donât have the evidence to support this.
More times, weâve seen the High Elves lend aid to the Night Elves. A High Elf Huntress joined the Sentinels in Stonetalon. Vereesa coordinated with Shandris during Garroshâs âretreatâ from Theramore. The High Elf Battlemage was allowed into Darnassus.
Shandris, despite being rational, expressed deep resentment towards Thalyssra, by naming and shaming the Highborne in ZinâAzshari.
Sheâs never done this towards the Thalassian Elves - why, because all of them were not even born during the WoTA era.
Sundering the planet will always be a thorn in the Highborneâs side, regardless on where they come from. This will not be the same for the High Elves.
Some would beg to differ.
They were cheered for, by the Sentinels when Sylvanas attacked Darkshore; however the âHighborneâ name is still a thorn, as Shandris spat, during her conversation with Thalyssra.
But they arenât Alliance. Theyâve been hermits for thousands of years.
They donât know about the Highborne exile to the Eastern Kingdoms.
They only see the results of it, as per through the Blood Elves.
But it doesnât always fit into these tight circles.
Far more times have we seen Blood Elven Magi use the raw arcane powers, such as using them to control and research the Sha. We also saw many Blood Elves Nethermancers, Arcweavers and Astromancers.
Weâve seen a High Elf Mage maintain a fel portal to Nashâkara, to find Alleria Windrunner.
We saw Jaina deploy her Arcane canons on Lordaeronâs capital and cast Pyroblast a few times.
Things arenât bound by race as you are indicating.
Except they arenât, through evidence.
Blood Elves and their ancestors possess the means of creating wondrous cities through capable magics. I mean, they blessed their land into an eternal spring, fought off the trolls, ten to one, created Silvermoon and the Sunwell through their magic and through the artwork, you can see how similar Silvermoon and ZinâAzshari are.
Why? Because the creators were from ZinâAzshari and they wanted a city that would rival it. Silvermoon was that answer.
The Shenâdralar havenât done anythingâŚI mean, literally anything, other than wield fel and void magic, see the majority of their city fall to ruin, and then live life in the trees. Plus, their library has been burned down.
The Blood Elves and Void Elves have mastered these, plus more.
You still have âmoon magicâ if you thatâs what itâs called, through the sisterhood of elune.
Thatâs not Highborne magic, thatâs always been a thing for the Priestesses, which is being explored further in Shadowlands.
Whoâs everyone?
Because as far as I know, many were happy that the Blood Elves found a race that they connected well with and thereby, joining the Horde.
But these are extra features. Not things that qualify as an allied race.
You canât copy and paste something three times over and expect the majority to thumb it up.
Highborne bring nothing to the table. Weâve got Nightborne which is the allied, Horde race, for the Night Elves, as are Void Elves the Alliance allied race to Blood Elves.
Is making an allied race of an allied race, which isnât good enough and shouldnât be an avenue they go down.
Shadowlands is an expansion, where the main theme is about death. Highborne lore has already been explored in the past two expansions and precious little of it, is about death. More races, like the Forsaken, Humans, Orcs, Blood Elves, plus the Death Knights are all things that have more things associated with death, than that of Highborne.
Iâm all for exploring Night Elf Druidic/Elune culture and giving the Highborne lore a rest now.
If Night Elves will get Highborne visual options then Blood Elves will get High Elven visual options~ are you ready for this to happen? 
I donât know zombie-sack.
I see only endless threads of âHorde Bias High Elvesâ opening.
Not as representing the whole race. But Vereesa and her group resents them, so it is likely other high elves do.
This is all true. Which is why I said no proof that all of them do. we also donât know to what extents.
I think that was Shandris lost in themoment, the intense emotions that would have been evoked, as a living highborne right next to her, it as easy to vent on Thalyssra, notice how Shandris easily agrees with Thalyssraâs counterpoint. WE know Thalyssra wasnât even one of the highborne directly responsibl for portalling the demons in, seeing she joined Elisande in fighting them and sealing the second portalâŚ
And people forget,a deep embarrassment to the night elves. The kaldorei as a race hold that embarrassment. Which makes it odd when people try to present the highborne as a different race altogether rather than another caste or even culture of night elf.
Kaldorei have shown deep shame and embarrassment to their folly in the war of the anceints, something only a person whoâs come out of addiction or suffered a great awakening (often painful one) can clearly see. We also see them very much embarrassed about the Satyr, but notice how they donât go to slaughter them all either.
Kaldoreir prefer redemption and restoration, reconciliation too, though they are firm on evil. This is the character classic brings out. However it sadly doesnât show their ruthless savage side witnessed in their first encounter with Grom Hellsream - that is also a side of them.
See above. If Shandrisâ reaction is what leans you there, I would reconsider. It however is certainly evidence that the event still hurts, but it cannot be used as proof that resentment still holds towards the current highborne.
Think about it, the current highborne have large numbers whoâd been fully part of the long vigil, even becoming druids, would they be orstrasized or aspersions cast because they choose to return to their original status as kaldorei society reconstitutes from millennia in abstentia due to the long vigil?
Then ofc the shenâdrlaar, who while not the most likeable are as culpable as all the other night elves, they werenât the highborne who made the portals, and fought the Queen too. The beef with them was minor and based on them taking so long to stand up to the Queen.
Yes they are, but the context I brought them up in was the nature of the night elf, in regards to views on the arcane, they are a relevant example, for while not Darnassian specifically, like the cenarion night elves who are neutral, theyâve all been in the post sundering affected world, in isolation and in vigil mode even in their distinct locations and groups.
Their reaction and view concerning the arcane and helping/working with arcane based night elves like the Nightborne and one would presume any highborne would be a characterisation of other druids and night elves⌠given that we see Malfurion of a similar ilk, and Tyrande, as well as other Darnassians, the point is we are seeing how the night elf in general with all the guilt of the sundering, , 10k years of suppression of arcane use in general, changed lifestyles etc would relate to tehir kin and coming together again.
Hence the term potentially. Meaning it could happen that way. There is not much else to conclude from a city full of night elves renowned for being the most revered arcanists in the realm and also processing the Queenâs top secret projects often in secret.
How else would you interpret this? Isnât it likely that:
- Theyâre the best of the night elven empire arcanists
- They produced or made work many of the Queenâs greatest accomplishments -
- in secret implies the Empire isnât aware theyâre the ones doing it.
- Projects seems to imply the great works the Queen is credited as achieving for her people - beautiful and extravagant cities, forests, magical wonders of stunning kind. Are not leaders often accredited with the accomplishments under their reign, even if they didnât directly have involvement in their creation, implementation or execution? One would imagine that one like Azshara, so greatly loved and vain, would have wanted the empire to believe she was the wonder behind everything, and they wouldnât care how much she personally got involved.
There is that quest in ZinâAzshari ruins, that shows a person commanded to create a new creature (the snap dragon) for the Queen, she is told to do this in secret (i.e. donât let anyone know) then afterwards she is killed and her research taken and accredited to the Queen - now it is right to assume she didnât have to die, so the officer collecting the info wanted to steal credit for it - however not credit to the wider night elf populace, but credit and favour from the Queen, whom they all adored like crazy.
Finally, remember how Mordant Evenshade specifically remarks about the wonders of this age? How they pale in comparison to the night elf empire?
Done anything how? Like ever? or like since their return? They only had a few years in the forest (classic 1.1 till 3.4), theyâre back in Darnassus from 4.0 through to 8.0 which is a longer period.
Yes, their library is burned down, true, no one can access their information, itâs probably in their head and other unique storage devices waiting to be written out - I donât know that for sure, but for a highly intelligent group having perfect memory recall like we know Elves do, and prizing knowledge so greatly like we know the Shenâdralar do, is it not highly likely theyâd have knowledge stored in arcane cores and other devices they could escape with⌠think of it like a computer back up, and safe keeping.
Youâd greatly prize originals always, like every intelligent nerd does with mint condition rpoducts, orginal copies - have you seen how academics geek over that stuff? So losing them would be a great loss to them, but the knowledge, the most valuable thing would be kept in back ups and careful stored places⌠at least with this group of academics. Whose time post sundering is specifically referred to as feverishly and obsessively into studying magic.
And it is related⌠not some separate category, it is the priesthood that first studies the well of eternity, from which magic is learned.
It is no surprise night elven priesthood uses so many arcane energy spells - they seem to call directly from the moon and stars as opposed to the well, but that may be because the well isnât useable.
When I try to think of it logically, given the information we have, we are told the Night elves, especially the priests revere the waters of the well of eternity, consider it sacred. Not surprising seeing Elune dwelt within it they use to believe. With the well imploded, despite the controversy it caused, much of the calamity is blamed on reckless usage rather than the waters itself.
We are told directly in the starting area how the Priestesses revere the waters of the Moonwell which are from the Well of Eternity and consider them sacred.
We see the ritual they perform to cleanse and purify them fully when forming a Moonwell in Suramar. And we know they are arcane waters, not only because we are directly told that, but we see the high elves during the Sunwell dispersion time period were sooethed by the arcane energies of the wells they often sought out.
So there is obviously a link between priest and mage for the night elf. It seems that the priest look at magic from a more philosophical and moral stand point, with their light connection coming through the arcane. Arcane viewed as sacred, moral implications, philosophy etc would be their forte⌠you can probably see that magecraft developed from Night elven people basically discovering that oh, we can also do this with the magic, and that, why donât we do some creative stuff, generate water or fire, build things, hide things, do magic stuff - now with every new use (think of it like science and technology) they would have found magical uses to aid their lives and their society in manyways.
People dedicated to applying magic in this way, for practical and innovative purposes rather than philosophical or theological ones would have become an entire separate group , especially when you think of this on a ntoinal then global scale, - and this is what the mage class would be.
Yet the connection is quite there. We largely see the offensive side only in Warcraft, cos itâs fighting wars, so if the priests use magic, you see the damaging stuff, this is seemingly quite limited to the spell quota, and we see Nightborne and Moonguard night elves casting moon and star magic too just like balance druids and priestesses of the moon.
This to me indicates this the races magical uniqueness. And it makes sense. They are called the Children of the Stars. An identity that is so core to them, the original race doesnât change itâs name even when the long vigil period necessitated a radical different lifestyle.
It also is evidence that the long vigil was not a permanent state for the night elves, but rather an indefinite one until the task it was set up for was complete. It just happened to take 10k years.
They donât change their name to the children of the forests. They donât swap Moon goddess worship and star fascination for wild god and forest worship. Sure the druids revere the wild gods, and as powerful beings, like the dragons, the elves respect them, but Priestesses worship Elune, mages and others are obsessed with the stars and the arcane. They just had to live in forests which provided the main sustenance to their lives for that period seeing they couldnât use the arcane to do things.
in contrast the Nightborne, cut off from much of the natural world in the bubble shield they erect to protect them from a supposedly overrun world of demons, turn more heavily to the arcane to provide their clothing and even food. It is the latterâs great misuse or abuse (even if it was felt necessary and unavoidable) that alters these night elves. Notice how skinny they become, eating very little e natural food, but being sustained from the life enhancing but not life energies that the arcane is, finding away to use it to ingest - in order to survive ofc.
Repeated use is not without its effect, their skin tone darkens further, and they become enve more night based⌠this is the opposite direction to the high elves, these Nightborne become more nightbased, more night elven than any other, the purest form of the dark elf side is seen in them as nature and Elune play even more diminished role than in the pre-sundering times.
Show me the evidence.
Iâm not interested in the rest of your post, because itâs headcanon.
Iâm not sure why a highborne visual for night elves means blood elves will get a high elven visual option. High elves are primarily on the horde as blood elves, But while they have the issue of high elf identifies being alliance, and blood elf being horde, both highborne and night elf are primarily alliance. The only exception are the highborne amongst the Nightborne.
I canât link quotes in this forum, if you want evidence, roll an alliance toon then go do patch 7.1 quests and click on Vereesa. Itâs all there.
Night elfs and high elfs had rly little, rather far relation with eachother, doubt this gonna happen.
So the same Vereesa also attends Tyrande and Malfurionâs wedding.
The same Vereesa has worked with Shandris on various occasions.
The same Covenant also worked with Darnassus and a Night Elf Hunter joined said, Covenant.
What she said doesnât aspire to âI hate these people. I want them dead.â
But they donât hate each other and on the levels the Night Elves of the Alliance are towards the Nightborne.
On the levels the Blood Elves are to the Void Elves.
On the levels Blood Elves and Night Elves are.
They cooperate and work together as we have seen since WoTLK.
Just another nelf whining forum post.
Nothing new here.
There is no night elf Nightborne hate visible. Where is this hatred shown? Unless you think the Nightborne hate Tyrande for being less flattering of the Nightborne than Liadrin.
I notice they got on well with the other night elves like Farodin who helps them a lot, the Moonguard whom they help rescue, and the Valâsahrah refugees who both help and get sanctuary.
I also notice the Nightborne quite proud of their kaldorei heritage. Telâanor quests, Valtrois and Thalyssra both speak highly of their kaldorei heritage. Tyrande is disgusted at how addicted they are, she still helps them, risks her life and that of her sentinels, recognises them as the people once closely relatd to her.
Basically, I donât see this hate at all, from either side. At most unfriendly.
Then why ask questions or open discussion if youâre gonna be like this on a deeper discussion? I donât get it⌠the info isnât big on detail, you kinda have to put pieces together given the info and creatively
I do ask you the question how else would you imagine those things to mean. This is what discussion is about.
If you encourage discussion, then suddenly end it, citing headcanon, I mean it kinda defeats the point donât you think? Not to mention itâs a little rude.
This, I agree with. Blood elves do not like void elves. Although it seems a bit shallow on their side. Void elves seem to like their kin, and want em out of the horde.
Blood elves also have the bigger bone to pick with the night elves by all accounts. We see a lot more aggression and hate coming from the blood elf side than the other way round. Understandble since they feel terribly wronged, but none of them were alive when it happened, and only the oldest of them like Lorash may have been born during the exile period.
There are many? Probably an indication this sort of thing matters to people. Whether few or many. If it comes up regularly, then peeps care.
Evidence of Belves willing to be friendly with them. Not of night elf hate though.
I think saying they donât like them is a stretch. Tyrande is understandably annoyed that her home city is once again doing the most embarrassing thing, opening itâs door to demons.
Then revealing the height of the night elven addiction. Note as high priestess and very proud of her people, kaldorei would somewhat be embarrassed by this.
There is no evidcene of dislike though. Only Tyrande seems flustered by them, but if you actually know Tyrande, she was worse with the humans, but then became quite friendlyonce they proved themselves. Something the Nightborne did to the extent she seems proud they this time stood up to fight for their homeland, unlike 10k years.
This is not indication of hate or even dislike, If Tyrande is representative of her faction of night elves here, then so must the inevitable pride she feels at the end also be reflected.
I also notice that it was the Blood Elves who maintained true communication with the Shalâdorei after the liberation of Suramar.
Also, they do not like them. Why? They shielded themselves away during the WoTA after they knowingly allowed the Legion entry into Azeroth in the first place. They stood by and watched the fleeing Kaldorei run from Suramar - I love the Nightborne, but Iâm not going to sit around blowing smoke up their backsides and absolving them of all responsibility.
The Nightborne betrayed the Night Elves. Thalyssra might have stood away from Elisande, during the third legion invasion, but she was still there when the barrier was erected. She was still one of Elisandeâs advisers and was the First Arcanist during the Empire days.
And why, at last, should the Nightborne, from their point of view, side with a group of people who donât particually like them anyway, when Silvermoon upheld communication. The Blood Elves keeping communication with the Nightborne is not something that is Blood Elven fault. The Night Elves should have remained behind, but they didnât. They and the High Elves, willingly left after Suramarâs liberation whilst the Blood Elves did not.
And the Blood Elves take pride in their Highborne heritage as well. One of the very first quests on Sunstrider Isle is to honor the Shrine of DathâRemar - but this doesnât mean they want to be allies with the current Kaldorei.
During the Blood of the Highborne novel (which is the novel that is dedicated to the Blood Elves), Kael talks of fully embracing their heritage.
You can only put pieces together if it makes sense within the common lore.
You canât put pieces together and fabricate fan-fiction and play it off as concrete lore. That is nonsensical.
If itâs the same people that do it, then itâs really silly, to be honest.
I donât like the Night Elf lore and what Blizzard did in BFA to them, but Iâm getting tired of the whining.
I love the Night Elf race, but as per with the Human fanbase and Sylvanas fanbase, I do not like the Night Elf fanbase, at all.
Similar struggles.
Leader betrayal - both Elisande and Kael wanted to do right by their people, unlike Azshara.
Liadrin is simply a better negotiator than Tyrande.
Blood Elves made a lasting impression on the Nightborne fighters, like Silgryn and Victorie and also the Moonguard, who expressed wishes to visit Silvermoon.
Blood Elves and Nightborne share an ancestry.
Nor am I, the Nightborne behave cowardly both in the War of the ANcients after taking such bold and decsivie action reminiscent of the rest of the night elves in that period. Then they just turtle in because âever the pragmatist, Elisandeâ has weighed her options and is too chicken to challenge Azshara and the Legion.
Incidentally it is this state of affairs and that character that leads to the state of Nightborne at the start of legion, when âever the pragmatistâ Elisande opens the city up to the Legion because she canât see any other way, or rather any chance of victory.
In her credit, she would act wisely if there was a chance of victory⌠like she did when she defied Azshara and went to seal the portals in the Cathedral with her group. However 10k years later, this time she sees no possible future and rather than still defy the Legion who are wrong, she justifies inviting them to save her people.
Tyrande is disgusted at this state of affairs which is what she meets when she arrives, however defiant Thalyssra is standing against this exactly like the kaldorei have previously done. In the opening exchange, Tyrande has just met Thalyssra, and knowing her people well, not having been present when Thalyssra stands up against the Legion (Tyande is understandly cautious) though not as cautious as she was when she met the humans and orcs in WC3. Thalyssra eventually proves that she is exactly like Tyrande and the other night elves.
The High Preistess is warmer to the nightbore at the end of it all, but by this time Liadrin has super charmed her way, showing Thalyssra and the rebels the type of courtesy and deference they understand and appreciate, Thalyssra has done something very brave, and very principled, a high lady not at fault but one of the few standing up for what is right would appreciate it far more someone who trusts her willingly rather than casts aspersions at her up front.
Tyrande is not wrong given her history and her position. She is Thalyssraâs senior after all, as High Preistess and probably in age too. Given her station and legendary status, it could be akin to wanting approval from an older sister but instead getting stern cold shoulder. Then new friend actually shows warmth and understanding.
Certainly no hate or even dislike isinvovled, itâs all in the response, attitude, and pride.
Iâm not saying they should be good buddies, just pointing out they donât have reasons to hate either.
As you have pointed out, which I agree with btw, the basiss of the alignment of the Nightborne with the blood elves is based on friendship of them, but as I also point out, not on hate of any night elf faction or the night elf as a racial group. Something I feel the Nightborne might still consider themselves a part of anyway.
Friendship is quite a valid reason. The highmountain have no cause to hate any alliance group either, sure no alliance faction helped them like we saw the Darnassian kaldorei helping their former city , yet the Highmountiain whose ancestors fought ith the kaldorei, easily link up with their kin ad help them. nothing to do with hate there either.
So such is possible ofc.
Donât recall them ever betraying the OTHER night elves (they were night elves too). They didnât want to join the resistance attacking ZinâAzshari because âever the pragmatistâ Elisande believed it a futile effort. They were on the same side. Which makes Elisande inviting the Legion most disappointing to the likes of Tyrande and the rest of the Kaldorei then.
If any betrayal happens it is a betrayal to all Azeroth in 7.0 when Elisande joins the legion, but Thalyssra is fighting it and Tyrande joins her. I donât see where the betrayal is.
That is not the story of the Nightborne/night elf unless you know some extra event I am not aware of that shows this.