No new city for Night elves - Bel'Ameth the Capital village

I wanna hone in on this a little bit more. If this is the case it also shows several things. they don’t care as much… thinking what’s wrong with night elves being the forest elf group? I t shows a real lack of grasp of the fantasy genre to understand forest elves are run of the mill and have been done to death, which is why that aspect is only part of the elven groups not the whole sum.

It also shows ignorant of Warcraft lore and a lack of serious appreciation for what the fans really enjoyed.

it shows lack of knowledge too . because if they new the last two points, they would have seen how unique a thing night elves were in the fantasy genre for elves. There are no star elves, there are no dark elf and forest elf combo either, , a civilization based on the night and star and moon isn’t known, it’s unique, the star themes that run though their civilization, their priestesses and even make up a large deal of their druidic spell arsenal is also quite unique.

There are no purple elves either, the colouring scheme centred around the arcane side of the night elves is also quite unique.

What sets night elves part from blood elves is not that night elves are primitive. if they didn’t know hat, then they have no clue of the lore, it’s that night elves are nocturnal, extremely arcane prolific, extremely nature prolific and extremely devout too - they are extremists in their fields, demon hunters too that wen fel, went to lengths beyond Azeroth warlocks matching the Legion demons even surpassing them - but they are extreme only in the things elves are good at which is magic, ranged firepower etc, and have carved a very distinctive unique mage magic,priest magic, druid magic and fel magic roles.

This makes sense given they are supposed to be immortal (even though that is currently not the case, they’re still over 10k years old) , that would make you excellent at anything, but their ancient civilization is lore wise the most incredible too - this is another feature of the night elves because the sharp contrast of city like Suramar and Highborne /civilization elves vs the barely no civilization when you entre their forests, where their keepers, the druids like to keep things as pure as the emerald dream is another height of the night elves - the lesson to take isn’t that night elves are nature elves, to think would be to miss that they were arcane elves too, and priest elves to and fel elves too - the lesson is that they have taken what they have to extreme levels and how distinctive each of these in.

Therefore here is the 3rd night elf attribute - distinctiveness, again no other race nor elven portrayal has such as wing, great civilization is in stark contrast to near undisturbed pre-civilization, pre man type of forests they have… they are not like humans and high elves who have forests and cities, but there is mixture, you can have small human clearings in forest etc… no, night elves have their great cities, then next to nothing, in the forest save maybe the lone hut there for a keeper, or a tiny settlement where they try to be as un-intrusive as possible.

This is part of their distinctiveness… this gives them a very enigmatic and mysterious edge, because at first they seem primitive when you see them in Aldrassil, but then you hear a little of their history and you see Darnassus, and you get the distinctive feeling there is far more to them than the initial on-the surface portrayed.

You are then encouraged to understand how someone that looks so simple could build something as incredible as Darnassus or Suramar or the Cathedral of eternal night - where are all those people? off course in time you find the reason many of them are druids, but you also find other communities in the same manner and lifestyle of their kind that built those things.

But that isn’t all, how can you live in an incredible temple structure like the Cathedral of Eternal night or the Temple of the Moon but then be okay about having a headquarters in a village like Night haven for 10k years?

this should prompt you t o then want to read more about the lore the war of the ancients and the long vigil so you then discover.

The blood elves by contrast are about their own kingdom in northern Azeroth (i.e. EK), about addiction, their recently scattered people, it’s politics with the humans and the alliance they once part off, troubles with the Amani, their new magical directives and sources, the aftermath of addiction, the Sunwell, combined with their colour themes, their religion, mixture, the sun etc, their physical attribute - etc, this is their main distinction - it’s misleading and incorrect to think blood elves are distinguished by being civilised elves and magical elves, it’s not only factually greatly incorrect, but a very poor distinction to be hard on an elf race where the race is typified by magic, beauty and nature. This off course is just a wet dream of a partisan fan who’s fandom incites him to want to cast aspersion on his rival pretty much like a football fan of one team does so over another - but a developer can’t forget (nor should the fan) that they’re football fans too)

However, sadly the game just stops showing night elves, instead of then ever expanding and unfolding their greatness in the arcane or in Elune through the priestesses, and even fel through the demon hunters, they are largely silent and absent form all the important world affairs, which okay, you could have said that was acceptable, but on top of that, you aren’t shown in game them being these incredible masters, so a person who hasn’t picked up the lore books or novels, would have no idea. how high they start in arcane circles, fell circles or priestly circles, what started to unfold is like cut short…and then you only see them most of the time in game as druids…

And a developer that thinks this is them, because they joined the team later on and have their impression of them based on the game - since like the vast majority of players, they don’t read the lore, don’t buy the novels nor read the lore information even in game - they’re gamers, they want to see the stuff, and hit the action buttons, not read walls of texts - if it’s not shown, they’re unaware, so they start working for blizzard, and are in development, and then continue to perpetuate this reduced image.

If they cared, they’d realise it’s boring by itself. Sure nature stuff is lovely, but if that’s all their is to it, it’s incredibly boring, and quite an overused trope, they would see that, and they would also see night elves have incredible established lore as great as their druidic lore in the arcane and civilization as well as in the priesthood and also in the fel via the demon hunters, there is a lot of wealth to draw from.

They’d also , with a little thought realise, the green image isn’t congruent with the theme, it’s an addition not the main, the theme is the night, purple, starlight, arcane - that’s the first core, the green of nature and fel are additions but the core is the magic of the mages and priests which is centred on the night, and the core magic of the levs… and the night elves’ version of this is the original and the greatest the elves have managed - and yet you don’t show this?

You treat them purely like forest chidden of the tree, when you called them of the stars instead and the night, with Elune and Wells of Eternity, yet they have taken a great backseat to the race’s exposure in game?

Also players found the other aspects cool, most of the playing populace are city folk, and night elves are a major race, this is why they had the is component in the unique night version, players find being badass cool, this is why they loved night elves, Illidan, the tales of greatness of Azshara and the kaldorei empire - these things get people going. this is why they are a major part of the night elves too, and the contrast to the peaceful, serene over tones of the nature side - which is why you have both.

You cut that out, what do you get? Boring and generic, but it is worse, because fans remember the other stuff, they are people that paid money for the books and they are still in circulation, the lore is still there, the older game, wc3, where night elves looked a lot more badass than they have in wow, is still there, people who come, new, then go back, see it all, would just look at the current development in comparison and find it really lacking, disgustingly enough to think it all garbage and change their mind, or at least discourage them enough from buying any new novels, or material because if they can change the lore so drastically and not in a cool way , how can you trust anything they sell?

And how can you trust a development team that fails to realise that with many people even fans of night elves there are different aspects they would lie… some would find the forest side totally cool, but finding that doesn’t stop them from liking the arcane and city side (as Suramar proved by being so popular) or the bad boy anti-hero fel side of the demon hunters (again like the kaldorei empire, the Illidari have always been popular amongst the fans), this is why you have multiple races and each race has several core things, to appeal to more people and having a realistic portrayal of a full race, as well as a grander vision.

Off course a night elf group with a great civilization, great arcane magic but also great nature magic and great forests, with diversity in males and females priests very distinctive form druids very distinctive from high brow mages, very distinctive from gritty fel using demon hunters or hardass strict dominatrix type female wardens - is very appealing.

It’s divers, it’s varied, it shows you different things, it makes it believable that this is not just some piss poorly designed thing, but believable as a fully fledged race of people that has many nations and great variations across it.
Its far more impressive, and it’s unusual in fantasy and a credit to the developers to try to do something realistic, unlike other programs that say just have fantasy races lumped into one simple category - totally 1 dimensional .

People see that an appreciate it, if you then now go back and just do one thing only for night elves, they’re not going to be impressed, they are going to think and feel you let them down big time, think or feel you are lazy or don’t care, and don’t have passion for the project you expect them to be passionate enough to sink their hard earned cash or limited pocket money into.

Face it, lore and ambience is an incredible part of a fantasy, and fantasy games, not just good gameplay and systems… this is your genre, you get the fantasy crowd, those that like Lord of the rings, swords and magic etc, and roleplaying - that’s the crowd you get, and it’s a hugely popular crowd in the world today and a huge slice of the entertainment complex amongst our generation.

Keep ignoring it and failing it, will sink the product deeper and deeper, to a point of no return. Maintain it, and you can improve it and boost and raise it and even open up for future development and keep spinning out stuff indefinitely.

WoW will not end with Night Elves staying in Bel’ameth.

Lets stop being so overly-dramatic.

Well its better than your current one: the stormwind streets.

You would think the developers would care enough about one of their best and most original elven races - but based on what i’ves seen over the years, I’m very skeptical.

Saying that from Legion onwards it has been better. Artwise, Suramar and Amirdrassil have been incredible - pre-sundering culture rendering was good. Val’Sharah and Azsuna were also beautiful and the Legion stuff done with the Demon hunters was spot on.

Priests were neglected again, but Tyrande did have a cool outing at last.
We also saw the return of the senitnel hunter and warden units - only they were crap - since we just saw them pasted majorly - and Darkshore warfront is ambiguous- You see the night elves lose in the genocide there, but the warfront sees both horde and alliance victories.
We also saw Night elven magic powerfully displayed via Farondis, Nightborne and Moonguard in 7.0 and 7.1 but not seen a trace since and still haven’t seen the wonders of the Shen’dralar or their magical prowess or the Moonguard stuff showing up for the night elves

There are a few good improvements for sure, but a lot still lacking, seemingly half arsed with the story portrayal well behind the art.

Blizzard elf the night elves for large swathes of time undeveloped - showing only out of necessity outings for the druid class the vast majority of the time and still haven’t invested any proper showing for anyone else but them, and much later [Tyrande, Cordana, Delas] outside their zones.

So basically apart from druids and the above 3 individuals, when have you seen any of the following outside night elf zones and stories showing up in any major or decent roll?

Moon Priests
Highborne
Wardens
Demon Hunters
Sentinels

but at least we got to see them eventually in their own homelands, because the classic era quests, were full of druids and sentinels - and missing all the other most of the time.

They go with the easier options that resonate with people the most. That’s why Humans and Blood Elves are used more than the others.

People just get Humans and Blood Elves. It’s why Humans and Blood Elves fill various roles, like showcasing skilled Mages or Rangers or Rogues or Paladins.

What we like in night elf mages doesn’t resonate with the new devs. Look at the night elf heritage questline…it was basically a questline that should have occurred after or during Cataclysm.
Humans and Blood Elves are just the easier go-to races for a lot of the stories in WoW, because they are just easier to write in.

Other races don’t even have a village.
Trolls live in Huts.
Orcs live in a wasteland.
Gnomes are Roommates with Dwarves
Vulperas live in their wagons.

Be fortunate with what you have.
The grass is always greener.

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No they don’t, they have Dazar’alor with the Zandalari and they have Echo islands - it’s just hteir quarter in Orgrimmar that are huts - that’s their rural architecture, not their city architecture… night elves are in tents on excursions.

Orcs have the most number of cities and strongholds, they added tons in Cata, and nearly every expansion up to Warlods of Draenor added to the orc tally.

TBC - got all the outland places
WotLK - added Grommash hold
Cata - added many orcish fortresses, strongholds etc - including in Ashenvale, Stonetalon, Barrens, Blasted Lands, Swamp of Sorrows, Twilight highlands etc
MoP - added another Orgrimmar extension
Warlords - had so many new orc places, cities, docks etc on Draenor.

Gnomes still own Gnoemraagan, and now have Mechagon, Mekkatorque is the new Gnomish King, crowned in Mechagon.

Vulpera’s indeed do live in wagons - they do need something, but bear in mind their introduction lore is as a nomadic people, feisty and crafty desert rats.

Their entire lore could do with more building up and exploring before we start asking for cities for them. The night elf situation is totally different, they’ve lost so many cities, and their last added one, Suramar, the alliance night elves don’t seem to have officially been given a place there despite.

Truth is night elves have lost a lot of things, zones etc, they need to give em all back, so far they got the new tree but not the capital, and the race isn’t

You will never see Devs saying that they consider any of the races to be “best”. And Night Elves are far from being original. They take most of inspiration from D&D (mostly Drows - dark skinned elves with matriarchal society where women are warriors, some of which worship Elistrae, the godess of the moon (among other things)) but also other sources.

Now that’s entitlement. All the races have gained and lost teritory over the course of the game (and lore), and none of them have to get it back. Look how much have Draenei lost lorewise - home planet, settlements on other planets along the way to Draenor draenor itself - and I don’t see anyone implying they should get it all back.

It’s the blend that’s original. Having that combination of drow dark elf and forest elf - both the best qualities, being based on the night, having the stars and moon then centre of their culture and religion, with a combo of wells of arcane power, trees of nature and then the fel demon hunters add a 3rd wing dimension

Altogether as a package it is original - but if you eliminate the night aspect which seems to be the case, as well as the sorceror/wizard dark elf with dark elf civilization - you are left entirely with the forest elf section which is just about trees and forests and nothing else. Elune is on the back burner or turned into a forest goddess when the druid folk have their own religion, the arcane a major part of their identity and origin is now just a side thing occasionally mentioned. the demon hunters also barely mentioned,

then the theme the night, also absent, all we see are beautiful day time forests with green , and golden sunlight - something that should be more present on high elves than night elves who should have an Ardenweald type forest, with stars and moon and cities with tall star reaching towers, planeteriums, starmancers, Astromancers, etc

Then the philosphy of the moon goddess - Elune is celestial, how does that ie into their view of the heavens and influences their culture, traditions and rituals/ also the colour palette which should be silver, purple, blue, maroon - those colours - as a major, not green. Its fine to have the green nature half, but it’s not fine if this becomes the major.

Where is the cultural significance here? star dates? star predictions? portal magic for position? Guided evolution? Naming days and career paths based on your stars?

and why aren’t we seeing the vast majority of their lore - only to focus on something that was an addition al shared identity?

They had a real chance to explore something unique, including the only playable immortal race, but they stripped them of that and have explored an immortal race losing their immortality, and seem to have forgotten that, while some fantasies have immortal elves, none have actually explored a mortal immortal race or told stories well from their perspective - at least not that I’ve read.

Lots of holes, missed opportunities… it is exactly like the druid class in classic, where they forgot and ignored balance, cat form and bear form specs to only do things with resto… this is what they’ve done here, largely forgotten the Priestesses, Highborne/Moonguard mages, and demon hunters to only focus on druids, forgotten the civilization and dark elf night/star side to only focus on the forest and nurture… forgetting that they based the race on the dark, purple, the arcane, the moon goddess, , the night -t hose are the main themes primary themes with nature the main secondary theme, and demon hunters the tertiary theme.

And this is all because of lopsided development, and the result was Amirdrassil - Tyrande behaving like a nature goddess instead of high priestesses to an arcane goddess, Malfurion in limbo, because he’s a man and they don’t know what to do with him in this current climate, despite him being the druid - and nothing about the cool Moon /star powers of the priests, little to no wardens, , no sign of immortality like skill in the sentinels, no bite to the druids, - no sign of their civilization available to them, no sign of the fabled wonders of the Shen’dralar Highborne and the legendary battle Moonguard that only got a quest chain in 7.0 (at least it was some visibility ) but nothing on the scale you’d expect for any lens focusing on this group even for an expansion.

Just daylight, sunlight, green glades in the cool bright sunny day, vibrant - druidic, but not night - no night forest, no night city. Just a race that makes little sense, void of its primary core that’s given no expression in game. And so looking like a a generic forest elf race with some fancy bits to it.

No one is asking for the entire planet back for night elves either, because what we actually want is to see some of what the night elves have and do in the stories in game.

Not asking for the entire empire, but would like a country or zone and a city with all their wonders in it.

Not asking for all of Kalimdor either, just wanna see Night elves be strong enough to match their lore and afford to defend their existing lands and places , even if they don’t have entire zones like Azshara, they should be there, unable to control all of it, but have their share and show them competent to defend it.

it’s made worse by them always been beaten , shoved back defeated and pillaged, and without them ever seen to be do the beating, and defense against the oppressors in the visible platform. They have the victories in the novels against great threats but just seem to be swept away by the other faction in a way that is the exact opposite to how they are written,…this is wrong.

they have forests, but we most of them mostly devastated, they have cities, but all of them are in ruins? all and the only one left, Suramar, you can tell me only the horde faction of night elves, the Nightborne can be there?

Surely races like Night elves and Draenei, having lost so much, should be having some pretty cool stories of them getting something back, or making some progress. Even if they are the “Fatale” group, can they have nothing cool in game? Do they have to have lost everything AND look lame at the same time?

Need more dead elf bodies.

They are present in Azshara. Only have a small outpost on it’s edge, but they seemingly still hold a small presence.
I’d rather Night Elves just leave Azshara. It’s a zone that is Horde land, in the main. The Night Elves could easily have Ashenvale where they do battle with Naga, Satyr, Corruption things, crazy elementals, hostile Trolls.

Draenei, yes - but I do think the playerbase needs a break from Night Elf lore. The War Within is giving us a lot of Void Elf stuff, which I think is needed. Night Elves, for good or bad, have been in our faces since 2016 and it’s time for a break from them.

Just plant a new world tree where Teldrassil was and rebuild Darnassus. I am so fed up with them adding these silly Chromie “past versions” which make no sense! Makes me just want to play classic for good to be honest.

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For me in the whole ordeal the most insulting that they wrote the night elves to be happy with this, to be pushed to a foreign land, alien land, where they will be second class citizens at best.

I don’t think it was intentional on the “writers” half, but this gaves me heavy north native american fates vibes, (obviously, unlike the n elves, they were not happy about the reservations)

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0 racial improvements
No counter strkes or cool display for night elves
No incredible capital city to match what they did have.
Nothing seems to be restored except a new world tree

having a new world tree is nice , but just it by istelf after losing an incredible civilization after the dramatic (and traumatic) war of the ancients, then the immortality of WC3, then the humiliations in the Cataclysm quests, then losing Suramar and the Nightborne sub-race, then losing all their kalimdor zones and their capital world tree

Failure to show the factional night elves good at anything - fabled mages do nothing seem rubbish, incredible druids are anything but, can’t accomplish a thing. Sentinels are always damsels in distress, Moon priestesses just stand there doing nothing and the occasional heal, - no arcane magic from mother moon we saw them use in Wc3. DHs are written as if they have no relation or care for night elves. There is no sign of the night, the arcane , the well of eternity, Night warrior happened and we see no more Elune empowerment to the race, the Moonwellls and Well of eternity aren’t used by the mages.

They do nothing, even in 10.2 they are just helped, at least Tyrande was cool in Shadowlands when confronting Sylvanas - woe betide we see that… then she crosses over form being an arcane priestess to a nature priestess/ that’s the druid arena, where was Malfurion?

Don’t get me started again

Look I love a forests and nature - but it’s not all I like. I love the forest half of the night elves, but I also love the city and arcane night civilization spoken of quite nicely in the books.

I can’t believe all night elves would get is green nature paradise - far removed from anything in their origin or their “night” theme - whether of arcane with the moon and stars and their civilization. It’s become so niche. This is a race, not some side group, and a hugely popular one… no grace, no grit, no power, no majesty.

Looks like we shall never hear of Amirdrassil too after this either. The ending is so underwhelming. Night elves gain a tree, no restoration of powers, purpose, drive, coming together of all their facets or at least each major group getting a serious boost.

Let’s chill out in the village

In the next expansion or the one after what role or significance would Amirdrassil play to the world or to the night elves?

Will it be forgotten and useless like first the Well of Eternity, then Elune and the Night Warrior? or would we only have it show up for catastrophe and trouble.

I want to see the night elves wielding their arcane powers, their Elune powers and their tree powers. I want to see the stars and moon hold relevance, i want to see the Night, I want the themes of the night - day forests are pretty and quite acceptable for DRUIDS… but I expect night elves to be NIGHT ELVEs - I expect to see those spoken about cities or at last a restoration of a few - Dire Maul? Nar’thalas? Suramar? and Darnassus? I want to see the night play the main theme in the forests where are the night forests? Night elves don’t wander glades in the sun - they are up and around in the night… where are the silver and purple forest, the ones where you can clearly see the stars and the moon?

Nature and the forests is what druidism is bout, but it falls flat if that’s the main thin or the only thing about the night elves. so much about them, form name, to colour themes, to living cycles and original lore emphasis a primary Dark elf based on the night base with a secondary or additional forest elf side. Not a pure forest elf race. A race isn’t called children of the stars, and night if they are all and only about beautiful forests in the sunny day - nor does it make sense for them to be all about fel wielding demonic power… these are great as major additions tot heir themes, but they detract to what their design immediately speaks up, and it’s reductive.

What about immortality? What core defining feature - have we abandoned that all together, and the Well of Eternity? Now they are supposedly free of addiction, learnt lessons of humility and discipline?

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You know, it’s funny, they went a long way to showing a night civilization of the night elves in Suramar - not everything, but they did it justice - it embodies the arcane extreme of the night elves correctly as well as the historical lifestyle of that side of the race.

They showed the demon hunters accurately too, nevermind that blood levs are now amongst them also, but they advanced the lore and portrayal well

In Amirdrassil we get a decent portraying of druidic assets for the forest side of the night elves.

yet, none of it comes together. The perception of the night elf is not strong as Elune - Moon goddess followers, or astonishingly brilliant arcane wielders or of hardcore demon hunters… it’s just of druids and hunters.

Because they don’t connect the Illidari much to the affairs of the night elves in Wow, where in Wc3, they were inseparable, as they were in the war oft he ancients trilogy.

After the portrayals of Suramar in 7. and Zin’Azshari later in 8.2, the night elf is barely present or involved or seen as part of that, though it is a core part of the race. Only Elisande retains her night elven look, and the failure to now reflect other night elf cities as such or incorporate the likes of the Farondis and Moonguard back into their home or even open up the city to it’s other original inhabitants, also gives a sense of neglect and divorcing.

And off course the moon priestesses, who have seen temples even a cathedral, and yet the lore around those, and the action around those is next to nothing. Priestesses just either pose, or do some small heals, nothing remarkable. NOTHING - I thought starfall was pretty remarkable in wc3, and the order of Elune seemed a magical wonder priesthood.

Despite the assets in game, the use of the class sect has been abysmal, even with the Cathedral of Eternal night recovered. Instead Tyrande is now remembered more as a druid thanks to 10.2 than a priestess and the other priestesses we saw just look like archers hunters rather than Moon Priestesses masters of both martial and magical combat from divine (light/void), arcane magics and bow and arrow skills - the first two is what distinguishes them from ordinary sentinels and huntresses who are not able to wield magic.

the magical and civilization bits, also quite cool of the night elves are mostly missing, and these are some of the most exciting parts of them, obscured and ignored… its’ annoying.

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It’s alike they have all these cool concepts and themes, with a lot of good and hard work doing visual assets and art but throw them all on the trash pile or put them on ice when bringing out story, lore in the game for the players now to find out. Exploration is not only about seeing area, it’s finding out what the things in that area are. What type of plants are these and trees, never seen them anywhere else, and what do they mean to the locals - what’s the building or ruined city or the elven item - what does it tell you about the night elves - why aren’t npcs, items and other things telling me lots of l ore about the area?

Is an area only there to do quests that only tell you of a running story usually chained to a previous one - can you not explore those themes, write lore for those assets etc?

Look how popular the brief outings of the demon hunters were and the short time we saw the kaldorei civilization of the night elves in Suramar - people LOVE THIS STUFF.

Why only show druids and green forests for the majority of the time? The race origin is the night, arcane well of eternity, purple magic and themes, moon goddess then nature then fel demon hunters.

So much cool stuff and unique stuff just left to waste - we should be identifying night elves primarily as well, night elves or star elves first before forest elf or fel demon elf - though the other two should be strong.

Don’t get me wrong, walking and talking trees are really cool, and druidic magic outlined in the class is also cool, whether the spellcasting wing of the balance spec that has that star fantasy or the animal shifting form or the resto one, but just that while you have in your pocket a major night civilization with a night version of high magic, fel demon hunter wing, magical wells, a Moon Goddess and a full complete set ranging from urban to rural - with star focused culture…

You just show hunters and archers mainly? Really, that’s bog standard in every fantasy, and while yes many love their elven archer and a purple elven archer might be a twist, they’ve really not honed in on the unique parts.

  1. all the night elf elven archers are females, they are also hunters and rangers.
  2. These female archers are night based ones - this has form of uniqueness to a regular hunter - show it, show night magic.
  3. You have an advanced magical civilization grade group - even if only 1 pristine city remains and another one is in a state of salvageable ruins and you built a new one recently destroyed it still is there… what is unique about it?
    a) it’s a night civilization based on the stars and moon - no one else in Warcraft has this, and I haven’t seen it anywhere else - the high magic of the stars and based on the night?
    b) it’s an advanced magical civilization - they’ve done magical civilizations in fantasy a lot, but they’ve never done them like they describe them in WotA trilogy and showed in Suramar for 7.0 and Zin’Azsahri for 8.x Warbringers Azshara. This also is unique - you’re talking about doing 25th century sci-fi stuff but in a magical version , while the spaceflight tech is left for the Draenei, it clearly isn’t high magic medieval setting which is what Dalaran and upgrade from that Silvermoon is - it goes beyond those two and it is night based - again… this is unique.

Why Suramar so key to the night elf story is languishing un-involved in anything of the night elves (or Nightborne - the night elf sub-race) is exactly the type of wastage I’m talking about.
4. Highborne and Moonguard legendary mages - so the architects and keepers of the night elf civilization continue today in these 2 groups and the Nightborne - they are also unique because they are the only mage group in the game characterised by STAR magic and moon magic - this is the signature of the race that makes their Magecraft and priesthood unique - because of the heavy arcane emphasis and the unique star/moon magic.
5. Arcane wielding and martial priesthood - FEMALE dominated - that is 3 degrees of uniqueness - no other priesthood has an arcane arsenal with a goddess tied to an arcane well and wielding arcane magical abilities. Nor does any priesthood openly combine both light and void in a way that they seem to be completely capable of not going crazy - this makes sense - do you know how old and how freaking intelligent they are? It makes sense they achieved a level of both discipline and knowledge as well as common sense to handle light and void so… and Elune, the creator of the Naaru is presented as a balance between light and void with her dark side and light side. Light side is light +arcane, dark side of the moon is void + arcane.

Martial - no other priesthood also has a heavy martial emphasis it’s utterly unique - they head the sentinel guard of warriors, hunters, archers, rangers, rogues and Wardens. AND

Female - they are all female -or mostly female - this is also totally unique

Nocturnal - also night priesthood exists.

I mean that’s a lot of uniqueness to be putting on ice to constantly showing us how much the night elves love trees… but not showing us their nature love in context of their night and arcane origin and state. Nature love in how they do cities - we glimpsed… glimpsed incredible Zin’Azshari that despite the gorgeous buildings was full of parks, gardens and trees on roof tops around the city. We seldom visit Suramar now, but a lot of effort was done to put trees in, and Eldre’thalas (Dire Maul ) well we see a lot of trees and Ancients, walking trees, treants all over.

Sigh - the unique things they don’t show. Balance druids have hardly any story in game or even in the books - yet this is the most unique part of them. Because druidism in other fantasies have trees and they have shapeshifting, they don’t have arcane powers.

Yet the arcane powers of the stars and moon - a type of magic most mage classes in fantasy get as the highest magic - is what is unique to the night elves across the board. it is what distinguishes their mages, their druids, their priests from the same of other races within Warcraft and also in similar fantasies found in Warhammer and DnD

Yet, this gets hardly shown or seen, nor does the night aspect - it’s like they threw away what is unique about the night elves and want them to be regular elves - which there is nothing wrong with… but show night elves /children of the stars to be primarily that - focus on that first, and the other bits get the occasional spotlight or shown alongside.

So they’ve given this to them - the beautiful forests and nature magic, the advanced magical civilization and the high end arcane users that wield the stars and moon, the Priesthood that has both the high end casters with star/moon magic and light/void but also are great martial users, and the highly trained in both magic and martial skills demon hunters that use fel magic for power to destroy powerful beings.

It’s all there in, the lore and in the game… but it’s so disconnected and all over the place. With the emphasis in the wrong place - like the forests are cool and all. But where is the night? the stars? the temples, the civilization side? I can get a story has gotten rid of the night elf empire, but according to the story the people have not devolved or forgotten, those in the north were doing the long vigil and abstaining form using the Well of Eternity to rebuild in order to stop the legion, those in Suramar and Eldre’thalas hid the use of their magic and continued, but they didn’t interact with anything else.

We should be seeing everything, and often - we can’t go to the Emerald Dream - and have the main druid guy missing - and the new hope in trouble and yet we see no priestesses wielding their magic, no Highborne helping out or Moonguard, no Nightborne to show the horde can help - and as far as I know the Nightborne would have been the most tolerable race from the horde seeing they love their kaldorei heritage and we saw many other kaldorei like Farodin, Night eyes, Lothrius , and refugee kaldorei help them and the city they had been cut off form.

We saw none of that, even the druids we saw, were barely in action - and while they gathered them all at the end, you just wonder… why haven’t we seen them? and when we see them why don’t we see them do well?

night elves are 10k + yr olds on average, especially after the WoT that had most of the younger generation killed off, as their highest skilled druids and sentinels were in Silithus and their Highborne mages, both Shen’dralar and their new recruits +returned Highborne were making portals.

At 10k year old - you expect remarkable things, especially if you are described as highly intelligent and ushered in the world’s most peaceful era till your Queen’s pride brought the destruction in her vanity she agreed to thinking she could rebuild it even better.

There would be many older, up to 15k years old, this is a hell of a lot of time to be really good.

How can a Priest wield light, void, arcane magic to the power that we see the likes of the Moon priestesses in WC3 and Tyrande with the Night warrior as well as be excellent rangers and archers skilful with bow and glaive and sword? that’s not human - no, but when someone lives for 10, 000 years you can expect that.

You can expect someone who’s built the most advanced magical civilization and is living practitioner of such magic since that time to now, to be incredibly capable - you’d expect while Dalaran wizard can master one school of magic for his lifetime, one who has knowledge that makes the current age look like school children and has lived over 10,000 years furiously studying and improving to be adept in all known schools as well as have magical wonder to show - and I’m glad that the Nightborne in Suramar showcased some of this - but this hasn’t been translated tot he Highborne form Eldre’thalas who would be even more mentality agile and diverse and were in the city that houses the lore of the empire- they are both the magical knowledge of the elves’ keepers as well as the secret architects and engineers of magic that processed all the Queen’s greatest as well as dangerous magical feats. the stuff that wow’d the world would have been designed and created there.

You can’t have this calibre in the ranks and do nothing with it blizz… COME ON !!! You can understand why a Shen’dralar mage would be able to use fel, void, fire, ice, water, earth, air, death, arcane, stellar, astral magic, then nature, solar and more. And all manner of variations and combinations, as some would be able to wield those but specialise heavily in arcane, and different branches of it, astronomy, stellar flare, etc

Druids too, druids , many of the men that became druids were Moonguard and Highborne, and the entire race knew magic. the ban only meant no use of the well of eternity for arcane spells - but not spells from other sources like the stars, nor other magics, they would have been also at it with magical knowledge, and might explain why and how druids are so adept at both arcane and nature, because many of these one time mages now druids have come to understand balance, it’s importance and uphold it.

But they’ve lived over 10k years old and have an beyond current level mage grasp of magic as their basis, a tauren druid living a mere 70 years cannot compare, given the oldest and greatest tauren druid Hammul has only been at it for 20 years, and all other druid races aside from Kul’tirans (highmountain is unknown = but we assume is new as there were no mention of highmountain druids during the questing) would be even newer.

No, they, like very young night elves (or older ones just starting another profession) , new to the class as the player character is (if you do the starting quests for night elves) would only at this stage be barely a master of one branch.

But a 10k year old night elf druid? Would be good at all the branches available balance, feral, guardian and resto - and be a master at all and then some.

They made the night elves huge, or rather epic - which is how they use to make things in Warcraft - rich with depth - lots in there to make a convincing actual race that felt unique and special -

This is what they need to guard and develop. The night elf world is it’s own world, the human world is augmented by high elves and dwarves in the setting it was made for. But they did a while new thing for night elves and for undead. And it’s the night elf one they’ve grossly underutilised, because we’ve had lots of undead in both WotLk and Shadowlands, and the Forsaken and Sylvanas were far more active on the big scene than say Tyrande, Malfurion, Illidan or Azshara and any of the night elves.

High elves were defined as former night elves, now day = who have divorced themselves form that world, built their own lives, have their own associations, first with humans then with Forsaken -but they’ve always been attached and part of a larger whole even when they were briefly with the Illidari.

Not so night elves

I don’t think they get the night elves. You have to remember their original purpose as it frames so much about them, character, personality, racial themes etc.

Night elves are not part of the current world - they have their own world, the ancient world, they continue to exist in, with its own diverse set, new creatures compared to EK, it’s enemies it’s strucutres

That night elf world still continues, and it’s not part of the usual world. Night elves can’t live in Stormwind or Quel’thalas - they are sort of like Lord of the rings elves, who will help for the great battles and involve themsleves a little, but not part of it.

High elves are the version of elves that belong to and operate in that world. This is one of the reasons why it’s fine that night elves are bigger and have more “elf” about them - whether it’s just bigger bodies, bigger arcane magical capabilities, bigger degrees of civilziaiton, bigger nature, bigger grasp, control and habitation too. Intensity is higher.

That intensity can’t work in the main world most of the story is ofcused int , there fore they remain a part but can someitmes help.

Draenei are also in a very similar situation - as refugees - just like the night elven highborne and druids are in magical terms leagues beyond most, so to in technology and the light (as well as arcane) are draenei leagues beyond the other. They have their own world contained in their ship, and anything they build.

They don’t and shouldn’t integrate either, not yet, if we are to keep the fantasy primarily based on the human world.

Sure they can have thier own zone, their own continent, shared with the equally but differently removed night elves and belong to that world. Have a few people hang out with humans, but they are essentially differnet.

What the developers, the current ones seem to have forgotten is the essence of this - so now there is no distinction and Draenei and night elves must be fully nerfed to bring them in line with humans - which removes the vast majority of what is special about them without actually bringing them in - because the night elf and draenei involvement SUCKS !!! It’s been atrocious.

This is not the same as going to the night elf world in Kalimdor, the Broken Isles and the EMerald dream, or the Draenei world in Argus and Draenor - when we do that , we go to their world, and we are essentially in alien territory - dealing with things that should be far beyond us, but showing our mettle to cope with it. here we find out more of their extraordinary lore and different alien seeming ways - even though they are from the same planet (night elves) or friends and familiar with us but from a diffferent world (s) altogher [Draenei] or state of existence - (Undead)

So as such you don’t alter them and write them as run of the mill mortals, or more on the level of or close to humans, they are the mortal equivalents of say Keepers or Dragons - you don’t give them villages amongst humans or even high elves or dwarves, or trolls or orcs - they are not at that level. To bring them down to that level - like they started doing in wow - is to reduce them, and it’s un-necessary.

Night elves should have their stuff - it’s there anyway, their Suramar, their Emerald Dream, their Cathedral of eternal night - so why not Darnassus and Eldre’thalas, Ashenvale and Feralas look incredible and magical in the best way they can. Why can’t the dranei have a new Auchindouin and Shattrath on Azeroth in their continent type island and we enter their world when we go there for expansions.

Otherwise on expansions that deal with their theme, like Legion, we can have them heavily involved… otherwise we shouldn’t.

Themattically we should see night elves when great world threats are involved… if they are threats not specifically linked to them like the Arthas but global indeed and requiring great power, they should be there in leading roles, given their level of expertise, but not in large numbers - usually one of the leading characters shoudl be involved.

another area to see them are in the class specific themes of mage, priest, druid and demon hunters - most druidic and legion stuff should see them as those classes are built on their lore gameplay wise. While the mage is also their creation, the in-game class isn’t built on their version of it, but on the human wizard version of it… which is why humans play most of the mage roles for most of the activities that happen.

But we should never see humans in mage leading roles in night elf areas or draenei ones or blood elf ones too. And for truly big magical events, humans should take secondary roles to dragons, elves (both night elf and blood elf) and Draenei who would have far greater knowledge - this is the same for the priest class.

The type of problem would determine which race would do the leading ones - for extra terrestial magical issues you use the draenei - for slightly bigger ones requiring even more experience magic you use blood elves/void elves/high elves. For big problems that require great ancient knowledge and know how, especially wonder - you use night elven Highborne/Nightborne providing the solution.

It is the same with priestly class matters - for the majority of the time you can use humans, but for truly huge things that require priest stuff you need to switch gear to the much older and more powerful bodies. Extra terrestial, dimensional - light you’re using Draenei, void you’re using void elves, when dealing with gods and the heavens you’re using night elves etc for the greater focus - for the lesser and the bodies on the ground, the nitty gritty is where you will see human , forskaen, troll and dwarf stuff.

They operate at different levels. Your run of the mill are humans, orcs, forsaken, dwarves, - with taurne, gnome, goblin, worgen come in support. Pandaren when flavouring too. bit when the greater troubles happen, the bigger stuff you call on the Draenei, Night elves (inc Nightborne), Dracthyr/Dragons etc. And it’s not about horde/alliance representation at this level it’s not based on faction.

And so as such for the majority of stuff on azeroth unless it’s an area that goes to them. This is there purpose, they are not meant to become ordinary or numerous - they were once when they dominated their worlds, but they have greatly dwindled after great catastrophes and they are remnant where you see the world as it once was, the kaldorei as they once were, where you see Argus or Draenor as it once was, but only in a few zones /a continent or 2 rather than the entire world.

And the player character ? Well he can roleplay as one of those dudes, but lore wise he has just started in his class , even if he is thousands of years old, he hasn’t been a priest or mage or druid etc for thousands of years, he just came to it, which is why he is on a similar level to the best of humans, orcs, trolls, dwarves etc who are at that level - and focus on that, not the other things they could possibly know from their own world.

It’s fine for night elves to have a demon hunter identity with fel scars and fel power changes, it’s fine for them to have green eyed emerald dream druidic forest folk that walk in the beautiful golden sunlight of a green lit forest.

But the core of the night elf is that purple skinned, silver eyed, star/moon wielding being born from the well of eternity and highly knowledgeable in many areas including a great ancient civilization who’s reached heights untold.

We must remember that have visual reminders and stick to that core even when we show the forest elf side of the druids or the demon hunter one , they’re variations, same with the Nightborne colony. The part animal features of intense druids and part demon features of Illidari are no different form the extreme arcane usage altering that only changed the ears of the night elves in Suramar.

The core of the kaldorei is what the Priesthood holds that is centred and branches into arcane communities, forest communities and even seeks to incorporate the demon hunters, dark rangers and flame druids.

to centre everything on the forest side or most things, isn’t appropriate, as this isn’t the hear t of the night elf, you wanna focus on that primarily, you need a sub-race for that or fashion the