Ok i'll say it, this game just feels outdated now

Community General Discussion
21

You are over simplifying combat right there.

There are a ton of abilities that require you to select a point on the ground. There are a ton of abilities which are a cone infornt of you. Like fire breath. Or countless melee classes have “frontal cone abiltiies”.

The fact that SOME abilties are auto targeted dosent mean that ALL of them are. In fact, most of them are not auto targeted, or, auto targeting would make a lot of sense (like dots and curses).

As for the active parry ? Who cares if you press “parry” or “shield block”. Does the same thing.

The difference with “modern games” where the player character has like… 4 buttons to press (like Elden Ring) is that in WoW you have 20 buttons to press.

The complexity is there. Its just that its not dumbed down to “hit” and “parry” and “dodge”.

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22

Wow, are you seriously comparing mmo rpg budgets and rogue like game which whole focus is drip feeding narrative to you? Aren’t you a smart one.
Even FFXIV doesn’t have fully voice acted dialogue, and it’s a narrative focused mmo

23

No I’m illustrating the difference in design between WoW’s old combat design which takes inspiration from EverQuest and is inherently a turn-based combat system that’s sped up to imitate the feeling of real-time dynamic combat. But we are ultimately just taking turns and rolling dices and having the game play out our moves with little input from our side besides the decision-making (i.e. pressing the button).

That’s in stark contrast to modern combat design that has become especially popular in souls-like games, where the emphasis is on active controls and dynamic reactions to what your opponent is doing, and where it is an action-driven design and not a turn-based strategy simulation.

But if your response to that is this:

Then that’s just indicative that you’re a WoW player who’s happy to play WoW and satisfied with a design you’re familiar with.
And there’s nothing wrong with that. So am I.

But it is worth recognizing that those two designs are in fact different. Because one relies on active input from the user to determine success or failure, and the other relies on luck through rolling a dice. Again, that’s the difference between one combat design being action-driven and another design being more of a D&D imitation.
In WoW, we roll dices.

I’m saying that Blizzard has no excuse for not adding more voice acting to WoW. They just don’t want to.

I’ll give an example:

In Hallowfall you’re journeying alongside Anduin. And a lot of the quests he gives you are voice acted, which makes sense, because he’s one of the main characters. But every time you complete a quest you can right-click on him and he’ll have some extra thoughts on the situation. But it’s all text. Why?! The voice actor is already in the studio! So why only ask him to voice act 10% of the lines?! Give him the rest of what Anduin has to say and have him read that as well. Why not?

There’s no reason for Blizzard not using a voice actor they’ve already hired to voice act more than the bare minimum.

No one says WoW has to be fully voice-acted and be better than the best. But what can be said is that WoW shows its age by being so text-driven as it is and having so little voice acting by comparison to modern games.

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24

Someone made an addon for this but Blizz turned it down :confused:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN-TdgGeGXw

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25

For the art that is used in wow the graphic is very good in my opinion.
Like LOL is also using their own art and the graphic is also good
What people want from wow?
to be a SPACE MARINE 2 graphical style?
I don’t think that will work ever in this game.

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26

Exactly! Not only are the graphics totally fine, but I think they’re actually very good and I don’t really foresee a time where they won’t be.

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27

In terms of it being a modern game?

Well it’s art. It’s only art. And that’s the limitation.

When it rains in WoW, I don’t get wet. There are no puddles on the ground.
There is no wind in WoW and the leaves on the trees don’t move or make sound.
If I pick a herb in WoW I don’t actually pick it. My character just does some weird thing with their hands and then the herb appears in my bags.
If there is a rock in front of a cave in WoW and I blow it away with dynamite, then it doesn’t actually get blown away.
If I find some disturbed earth in Hallowfall and dig in it, I don’t actually dig at all. Because you can’t dig holes in the world.
If I cast Rain of Fire on a field in Westfall, the field doesn’t burn.

And so on…

And it’s not to say that WoW is bad. It’s to say that WoW is old. The world in WoW was made decades ago and it was amazing back then that the day/night cycle followed the real world. That was mind-blowing. But by today’s standards the world in WoW is old. And the biggest shortcoming on the art side of things, by comparison to modern games, is that you can’t really interact with the world. You can move around in it, but you can only interact with the objects that the designers have placed in it. You can’t interact with the world itself.

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28

I quite like the “old” feeling of reading texts. Not everything has to be voiced for me.

29

Sorry, you need to ask him in voice dialogue.

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30

Yes, but we can list the many ways the game can change and a lot of them will be “hard passes” for certain groups of players. Just because something is newer doesn’t make it better.

And to give them credit, the devs actually have looked at a lot of the dated features of WoW and modernised them. Cross faction gameplay, shared Renown, currency transfer, region-wide AH are a few recent changes.

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31

They have, it’s not a focus, they allocated most of the budget to gameplay, level design, server maintance, e.t.c.
Hades is a small game in which everything but narrative and voice acting is subpar, guess why? Because it’s narrative is solely why this game exists and whole selling point.

Because quest text isn’t meant to be voiced, never was, that’s how development process goes, that’s how gameplay pacing goes, you recieved cutscene and bow you recieve small text with small deep dive into character’s narrative

There are plenty of reasons for that, like work hours and laws against slavery

32

Oh for sure. I mean, WoW is 20 years old. The people who play it are for the most part long-term veterans who are generally satisfied with the game being the way it is.

It’s like the local diner that grandparents go to because it keeps being the way it’s always been, and the local diner stays the way it is, because its core customers are those grandparents who come because it is the way it’s always been.

That’s WoW. And we’re the grandfolks of gamers.

But it is an old game regardless, with an old design.

:face_with_raised_eyebrow:

You couldn’t have told me you were out of touch with gaming in a better way than this.
If this is your take on game design, then there’s no reason for us to discuss further, because we’re at polar opposites. Which is fine. :+1: :upside_down_face:

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33

It’s my take on hades, not on game design, what, have i slandered your favourite game or smth? I think the whole rogue lite community knows that hades gameplay-wise is inferior to titans like isaac/RoR/dead cells, and narrative is what carries the game.

34

As a member of the rogue lite community, i disagree, Hades is a 10/10 game.

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35

Every game focuses on something.
For example you will also not find any of what you describe in league of legends
because the focus of that game is what? PVP
What is the focus of wow since release?
it’s basically farming simulator for your gear.
They didn’t care about weather because that was not point of this game
Killing a boar with a cool looking spell was

same thing as to Why d3 sucked to many hardcore D2 fans
because blizzard care more about how you kill monster and how cool it looks
and they forgot to put money into a endgame gearing system that is interesting and lasts at least 2-3 weeks :smiley:

36

I haven’t managed to force myself to finish it, while i platinum’d isaac 2 times

37

You are just making this up right now. You are confusing techniques to deal with latency with turn based combat system. Simply put, if your “turns” are millisecconds long… its not “turn based”. Its simply a technical solution to get information from the players computer, to the server and produce a coherent result with out bugs.

But either way. I am done with this discussion. You are a person hellbent on your opinion even if they present the obvious right in your face.

You dont understand that Dark-Souls “modern” combat design has flaws : Dark Souls and other games ONLY have 4 buttons. If you add more than 4 it becomes unplayable.

And let me be real here : This “modern” combat system was done because if you were to make a “WoW combat” game, you would be in direct competition with WoW. And you would loose. Many other MMOs tried this, and they all failed.

But at the end of the day, WoW combat is not “old”. Its different. And as engaging as Dark Souls combat. And it has NOTHING to do with what it used to be in Vanilla, or Everquest. WoW is a game that (fortunatelly) has been evolving for the past 20 years.

If you cant understand this, its OK. Simply quit the game and go play Dark Souls if you think its better, or as popular, as WoW is.

That is not the issue. The problem is that WoW has the worst new player experiences I have ever seen.

In part because somehow Blizard (and the community) have agreed that a new player has to go through ALL the expansions since Cata to understand the sory. Which is false.

I suggested many times to make a big “entry level” continent where new players can level from 1 to [insert relevant level for current expansion]. With a totally unrelated story to retail wow, but that is designed to be engaging.

This continent would never change. No need to add anything new to it. The only thing that would change is that once you are done with the continent you get an instant level boost to the relevant level, a set of free green quest gear of relevant ilvl, and a cool cinematic of the “story so far”.

And THEN you drop them in Dornogal… or whatever the zone for future expansions is…

THAT is engaging. Forcing new players to jump from Exiles Reach streight to Dragonflight just because… is NOT engaging.

But it has nothing to do with the game mechancs themselves.

38

My experience in conversing with you is that you’re a contrarian, and you’ll throw out some radical words to reject what I’ve said, that I can then argue ad absurdum just to maintain the simple point I initially had – which in this case is that WoW has an old design with regards to storytelling because it relies so much on text whereas newer games don’t.
That’s a simple take and it shouldn’t devolve into a discussion where you deem it necessary to throw out something like this:

Like, you’re always taking a simple point being made (WoW is a text-based game and that’s indicative of old game design) and then going to crazy town with it.
And forgive me, but I care not for it. So we’ll just have to agree to disagree and recognize that we’re too far apart in our view on things. And that’s fine. :slight_smile:

Well I was simply trying to describe how the design in WoW is old, even with regards to the art side of it.
I’m not judging. I’m here because I enjoy WoW and WoW does many things really great. But it is an old game with dated game design, because it shows. I feel like I gave some examples to illustrate that.

The nitty gritty of it is that WoW was made in the early 2000’s and developed from the modified Warcraft III engine and was ultimately released in 2004.
The games that took use of Nvidia’s PhysX engine started to come out in 2006-2007.
So WoW is sort of a generation behind here.

I remember when Blizzard announced Diablo III and showcased the demo. One thing they made a big deal of was its physics engine and how it used ragdoll physics and how enemies would explode or get cut to pieces or hurled across the screen depending on how you hit them, and how the curtains on the walls would move if you swung your sword near them.
That was the new technology and the game design took use of it.
WoW has none of that, because it wasn’t made with it. It didn’t exist back when Blizzard laid the foundations down for World of Warcraft.

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39

I mean, it’s not flaws, it’s how game is designed, and this design is applied specifically to environment of single player focused action rpg that soulsborne games is, it won’t live in mmo rpg environment tis true

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40

Which one of my words was radical? Saying that not being a fully narrative focused rpg gets you pass on not having full voice acted dialogue, or saying that hades gameplay wise is subpar?

Newer games in same genre i hope, because comparing rogue like and mmorpg is like comparing sims and stellaris. I don’t know even ONE mmorpg which dialogue is fully voice acted, new, old, doesn’t matter