Just remove all bubbles from all specs except one on a 5 min cd for Holy. It was meant to be a defensive CD, so it should be used for defense, to save someone.
Why should a plate wearing selfhealing DPS have shields, blessings of protections, bubbles and ranged 6 sec stuns all together with the best burst in the game, which is Also magic damage, and not physical? And noone is getting 90k templars anymore, that 405 ilvl damage. Its 120-130k spam every global (if lucky with crits ofc)
I completely agree with this. They should at least give Paladin back 50% damage reduction on its damage when he bubbled.
Despite all that Paladin is nowhere near being top melee dps, there are at least 3 better dps MELEE classes one of which is Rogue.
Removing stuff that makes him good is unreasonable.
More reasonable is to look what is actually cancerous, which is what me, Shadenox and Fake Whisperer pointed out, that being possibility to deal uncounterable damage during bubble with no punishment other than losing a defensive.
Rogues do have a cloak of shadows that works just like a bubble on 1.5 min cooldown against casters, though⌠should their damage with the cloak active also be reduced so that they cannot go offensive while it is active?
You removed this far too quickly for me to read! 
Simply said I agree it should have downside. Same as Netherwalk.
Either reduce damage, make cloak cancel when Rogue uses damage or make himm unable to attack with it or something.
No-downsides immunities is very bad unfun design.
That is the point. You, yourself alone, as a Mage, see Cloak like a Divine Shield. But it is not. In this game if a Paladin uses Divine Shield there is nothing anyone can do to counter his burst during it. A Priest, IF you have one, can dispel IF heâs not kicked or ccâed on cast.
However in this game if a Rogue uses Cloak of Shadows more than half the specs can cc him, hinder him, or downright kill him. Yeah, you canât as a Mage. But thatâs because youâre a Mage with only magic, not because Cloak makes the Rogue immune to everything.
Also it lasts close to half of Divine Shieldâs duration and you canât use it while in CC (even magic CC).
Well, hereâs your downside : you take 100% of every physical damage attack, and physical CC. Meaning even some classes with mostly Magic can stop you in Cloak (Demo can stun, pets can kill, Dks can Asphyxiate through, Boomkins and Rest can Bash through, and so on, just got a couple example of Magic based spec that still have a way to stop a Rogue in Cloak). They canât ALL do it, both Destro and Mages have nothing. With Affliction and Priests these are the only specs (a total of 8 specs unless I forgot one) that cannot hit a Rogue in Cloak. And I ignored Shadowfiend. 36 specs in the game btw. How many can do something through Divine ? Zero. 3 can attempt to remove.
Netherwalk has a downside too. The DH is only immune to damage not to effects. You can apply DoTs in Netherwalk heâll take damage after. Also he canât attack. But heâs immune to every damage not only magical, which is a big deal. A difference version of Cloak. Thats a trade, physical immunity for the ability to attack. Maybe it makes caster players mad but overall, when you look at all the specs itâs not crazy insane.
So basically Hunters have Turtle, which lasts 8s, makes the guy immune to every direct damage, allows him to place traps but canât attack and you wish for cloak that stops only magic and lasts 5 to also stop attacks ? Not reasonable. Thatâs just one comparison between many.
The only no downside one is Divine Shield due to the lack of coubterplays. Block has the Mage immobile. Turtle has the Hunter unable to attack and taking dot damage. Netherwalk has the DH unable to attack and keeping debuff effects. Cloak has the Rogue vulnerable to all physical attacks, CC, slows, and bleed damage. Divine shield makes the guy immune to everything in the game. Thatâs it.
Does that really work? I for some reason thought this stun is magical. Looking at the ability, itâd definitely make sense for the stun to be magical. Why isnât it? You literally use dark magic to lift someone into the air and choke them⌠the rest of the stuff youâve posted sounds fair, though. While it may cause trouble to some select few comps, the cloak definitely isnât as broken as a paladinâs bubble. I stand corrected.
I actually thought the same, and I thought I remember it was possible to Cloak it in the past (like WoD) but it seems itâs not possible in BfA. In S2 I really thought a Druid would die, I even yelled to my mate watch me Cloak Asphyxiate and kill this guy, I cloaked, the DK used Asphyxiate, and I got stunned. Horrible experience.
Thatâs dumb. Iâd like to see an explanation for this change other than using it as a way to put those with magical immunities at a disadvantage when they play against death knights.
Turtle is longer CD and does not dispel Magic Dots. That is reasonable, yes.
IF youâre not caster IF your stuff isnât magical. Cloak is just too strong. Many melees CC is also magical.
If Paladinâs Blessing of Protection were not purgable itâd also not be fine. Although any Paladin could be shadenox about it and apologize the design as it doesnât stop casters.
Well no since any caster aside from those I quoted have a solution to tempo cloak. None can for Divine. Destro canât do it, sad for you but thatâs not general.
Also all melees but ret and shaman have physical CC, and those rets and shamans have hits to try and kill that can go through. âmany melee cc is also magicalâ well, not many no⌠Some. And they have other answers.
To draw a parallel with Cloak, if it lasted 5s and not 10 and was only useable on self with only one charge itâd be totally fine as a non purgeable effect. Imo.
How is it sad for me? I am not playing Destro. You know that. Now youâre just being unreasonable child attacking all around because spec you play has too strong mechanic, is currently one of the most overpowered, is present in every single top tier comp and you canât admit power of those mechanics.
BTW Getting BoP on you while you have cloak results basically in undispellable Divine Shield.
How does charge matter?
So in your opinion if 5 min CD has 2 charges itâs too OP, but for some reason Cloak is fine with its 2 min CD?
Double standards. Youâre too biased to admit the truth.
Yes⌠That for 5s, requiring the presence of two classes (in comps of 2 or 3 which kinda limits tour options) and thr usage of two cooldowns. Which is rarely good. Because if weâre talking such nonsense then overlapping all thr cooldowns of a team at once can result in an unkitable immortal wrecking ball, but you donât do that because when you have fun overlapping, you die faster. Have a look at game durations in tourneys when no one overlaps vs when a team overlaps.
I meant of it was not dispellable and lasted 5s, basically a physical cloak. Iâd say charges would make it too strong because then you could use it twice back to back. Ofc cd would have to be revisited. Itâs like, if Cloak had 5 mins but two charges it would be super broken compared to what it is now even though it would result in a longer cd per cloak. Which is why I said, remove the charges but since weâre not making bop into a physical cloak I didnât bother listing everything to make it alike. We can if it makes you feel better in terms of âdouble standardsâ. Alright. Make it one charge. Make it 5s. Make it undispellable. Make it 2min CD. Make it not useable in CC. Make it useable only on self. Happy childish boy ? Werenây you able yo deduce all of this when I typed âmake it a physical cloak and it would be okay to meâ ? Gosh.
It does require two classes yes. And playing Ret requires to play Ret, which is not top tier class, currently itâs mediocre at best.
Doesnât mean itâs not broken.
So again, you apply double standards to fit your case. Before you didnât bother that playing Ret is bad, now that we talk about Rogue somehow thatâs relevant parameter.
not if you win because you couldnât be countered
I am just talking of how stupid immunities are with no downside.
Ice Block, Turtle, Netherwalk are well designed abilities. Cloak of Shadows and Divine Shield are not and are stupidly broken.
I think you donât know game enough to acknowledge Forbearance exists.
Excuse me what ? Where exactly did I type ONE WORD about how good or bad is any Paladin spec ? I read my post again, didnât do that. Calm your mind, it imagines too much unreal stuff.
Then you are unable to notice that Cloak doesnât make you immune yo anything physical-based and thus can totally be countered just as the first 3. Your issue is that the rogue can attack, as opposed to say, netherwalk, and you canât bear that. Just punish with physical stuff, use brain ? If he cloaks to chase you because heâs immune to magic idk have your druid bash have your monk stun, have one of your three members use their physical skills. Teams with ZERO physical are nonexistent in the meta, and thatâs not because cloak.
You are simply being a biaised forum troll as usual. There is a downside/counter which you keep ignoring.
Since even I canât believe youâre that idiotic I will once again clarify. IN THE HYPOTHESIS OF MAKING BOP A PERFECT CLOAK LOOK-ALIKE FOR PHYSICAL DAMAGE, I BELIEVE THAT HAVING TWO CHARGES AND A LONGER CD IS TOTALLY BUSTED WHEN ONE CHARGE ON A SHORTER CD ISNâT (YES MISTER EVEN WITH FORBEARANCE) BECAUSE WITH TWO CHARGES YOU CAN STOP ONE GO AND BECAUSE OF THE DURATION OF DIMINISHING RETURNS FORBEARANCE WILL BE OVER ON NEXT GO (since, you must be aware, melee classes very very very often have to pair their goes with a cc to prevent the use of defensives and allow their casters when they have some to deal damage without being lined or kicked) ALLOWING YOU TO EFFECTIVELY STOP TWO GOES IN A ROW SHOULD YOU WISH IT, HENCE THE WORDS :
Of course, and I type this for the dense person you act like, you donât throw cloaks of bops or othee defensives when nothing happens you do it when the enemy push for the kill. So I obviously meant on two successive kill attempts.
I didnât read through the caps lock stuff it was unreadable, but I will take it as you apologizing for not realizing how Forbearance works.
Just to be sure you know it, Iâll include you link:
of course you donât, because those spells donât have two charges
it kinda makes sense that people donât use multiple charges in a row when those spells donât have them, think about it before you write
also yes people donât use 2 BoPs in a row either, even when it has 2 charges⌠but there is the Forbearance debuff you didnât know about, just to be sure I included link that you find out about it now, since you are struggling with it now second time in a row
They totally use it two times in a row if you consider they use it on goes. They can BoP one go, and because of DRs and pressure loss Forbearance will be over next possible push, unless weâre already at 50% dampening. So they are able to BoP 2 kill attempts back to back most of the time. You clueless player.
Are we really comparing cloak to a bubble?
Magic immunity for 5 sec not usable while CCed vs Total immunity for 10 sec, usable whenever you want? Bubble is basically a free trinket as well.
A rogue uses cloak almost exclusively ONLY in the following scenarios:
To avoid incoming magic burst (GPyro, Chaos Bolt etc.) Proper defensive usage.
Clear magic dots to be able to Vanish. Using one defensive to ensure the second defensive actually works. LOL
High skill plays avoiding incoming magic CCs (HoJ, Mortal terror, Fear). If rogue immuned yuor CC this way, deal with it, you got played.
A reminder: the CD used to be 1 minute for a long time. Also Preparation (which rogues lost completely) could reset cloak CD. And youâre still complaining?
DK AMS has a 1 min CD, and also generates resource. Looks uglier, ok Iâll give you that.