Paladins and the Void

Lore Role-playing
21

Because game mechanics have never been equal to lore. Void is the cosmic force that manifests as shadow magic when you draw upon it.

22

Same source of energy, sure. Same thing, not really.
The void is far more corruptive and more difficult to control, but more potent too.
Shadow is just a more user friendly version of it.

And about the game mechanics not matching the lore… to some extent. A lot of people extremely overstate that. It’s still in the game. You don’t blatantly and completely break your own lore.

And don’t use it as a stupid excuse for “it’s just game mechanics, it’s not lore, duh” because that’s just hateful, unintelligent and objectively false.

Remember, it’s still in the game. Don’t try decanonizing WoW, because by that same logic, we’re still at the point of Arthas putting on the Lich King helmet by the real timeline.

2 Likes
23

You beautiful angelman. Thank you.

24

First off, there is nothing hateful about any reply in this thread.
Nobody here hates you or your views, and the answers were not given out of spite.

Second, you did not provide any kind of source for your claim (shadow != void), aside from your own interpretation of the names of four spells in the game. Objectively the fact that a spell is called “Void Bolt” and another spell is called “Shadow Bolt” does in absolutely no way contradict the lore statements of the wiki articles I linked. Why do we call one thing a candle and another a flame thrower when both are fire? Doesn’t make sense.

I do not “decanonize” WoW, I still consider the actual story events to be canon. But I wouldn’t take game mechanics to be lore, otherwise it’d be quite disturbing how often we have to kill Maiev at Darkshore or why every soldier on both sides is effectively immortal since they can just run back to their corpse and respawn…

Anyway, you can of course have the opinion that Shadow and Void are different and distinct things, but unless you can provide some actual source for this I prefer to go with the wikis.

We can agree to disagree on that topic.

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25

I can provide a source to his claim actually.
It’s stated multiple times that Alleria Windrunner is the first Azerothian mortal to use Void magic without going insane. Despite this we’ve seen ample wielders of Shadow Magic, who are very clearly still sane. For example, Valeera Sanguinar, and any other Rogue character described to use Shadow Magic.

Further still, on the chronicles cosmology chart, there is a distinction between pure Shadow, and Shadow (Void)

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26

Thank you, that is something I can look up. :slight_smile:

Is this the chart you mean?
https:/gamepedia.cursecdn.com/wowpedia/thumb/7/72/WoW_Chronicle_Magic.jpg/1280px-WoW_Chronicle_Magic.jpg

It was the first hit on Google.
It seems wrong though, since it clearly states “Shadow (Void)” on the bottom.
Although “Shadow” is written in bigger letters directly beneath that, so I’m not sure what to make of this chart / how to read it.

27

Each outer-sector refers to a general Sphere of Magic/influence; and then lists forces that act as a subset or physical manifestation of it’s self. Followed then by the beings that embody their nature most. Shadow and the Void are innately linked, but Shadow it’s self exists as the absence of Light, whereas Void exists as a force -of- the Shadow. That’s the way I read it atleast, but something you have to keep in mind:

WoWpedia and WoWwiki don’t correctly source information on this sort of thing either. What you’re reading on there is still headcanon and interpretation, as Void and Shadow haven’t been well explored by Blizzard: We have lore showing that they’re linked, and lore showing that they’re different. Given the Lore we do have on Void however, I’d side with Thayne’s interpretation over the WoWpedia/WoWwiki interpretation.

28

WoWPedia in this instance actually listed Chronicles V1 and this tweet from one of the authors of chronicles:
https:/twitter.com/Burnzerker/status/827410044694073344

Hardly scientific references, but we’re still talking about a fantasy game so this is probably as good as it can get. :smiley:

Thank you for your replies though, I guess I will use Shadow magic instead of Void magic since it seems to be the more common / less immersion breaking term. :slight_smile:

29

I did not mean your comments were hateful, I was speaking in general.
Most people use that to hate on WoW and its lore, which is tiring to deal with because it feels like it’s hate for the sake of hate and has a hive minded attitude, where a youtuber said WoW sucks and others think that’s a cool thing so they follow along.

But back to the topic if what I said was interpreted as shadow and void being two completely different magic types, I apologize for being mispoken. They’re different, yes, to the point of using them interchangably would be, in my opinion false.

However, I get why it’s up for speculation and discussion because the lore is (like about so, so many other things) painfully vague and/or lacking any explanation whatsoever.

Take shamans and druids for example. They both do nature magic, but can we very distinctly differentiate them? Yes, we can. Same way as we can differentiate sub rogues, affliction warlocks and shadow priests.
They’re using the same magic type but in very different ways.

So I think voidbolt and shadow bolt are also different things, just using the same source of magic.

My own interpretation, as said, is that shadow is the more user friendly option while Void is far more powerful, but crazy dangerous due to how easily it can drive you insane.

In my own educated guess, shadow would work on the same principles but would be far more accessible to the aforementioned classes (rogues and warlocks) so it’s more commonly used, while the void is only done by shadaow priests and void elves.

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30

If Blizzard states shadow and void are interchangeable, they are interchangeable regardless of personal opinion, Blizzard makes the lore and the rules.

You can’t use this as a reason to say shadow and void are different things, a lit candle and a campfire are different things, the fire is still fire.

31

Do please give me a source where Blizzard says shadow and Void are completely the same thing and can be used interchangably.

I’ve not seen such a statement yet.

32

Velaeda just linked a tweet https:/twitter.com/Burnzerker/status/827410044694073344

33

Put that statement in the context of the question.
The writer was asked about the correct term for the source of magic, not the magic type itself.

In that context, yes, that makes sense.
But if we want ot make sense of the two terms, everything I said so far still stands.

34

You have no other source than your own interpretation of the ability names in wow

35

No, the game’s lore telling your pretty clearly that Alleria is the only person (before the void elves) that used void magic without going insane, when shadow magic has been used for decades by that point, is not a clear indication at all.

Lor’themar exiling Umbric for studying void when allowing other people to study and freely use shadow is also nothing that is present in the lore at all, that would make it very, very clear that they are different enough for the character to know that one is crappy for the Sunwell and the other is just shady but can be safely used.

No, if the game’s lore is not source for you, then I suppose I really do have no source. But then I’ve no idea what we’re talking about.

So yeah, I suppose I’ve no other source (other than the in game lore), but you, my friend have nothing other than passive agressive one line replies that are doing a poor job at trying to invalidate me.

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36

Yeah, studying the Void which manifests as shadow magic when drawn upon.

37

Guess Mathias Shaw and Valeera Sanguinar have been insane for the past decade. :thinking:

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38

Blizzard once said they favour game mechanics and enjoyable playtime over lore.

It’s not just plausible, but currently happening, that game mechanics exist purely outside the realm of lore.

39

Was that ever a question? :thinking:

40

Why call void form and shadow form too different things, then, if there’s absolutely no difference between void and shadow?
WHy not just call it enhanced shadow form or something?

And why did Lor’themar kick just Umbric’s group out?
Why not all the shadowmancers (if void and shadow are the same thing)? Shouldn’t they equally all endanger the Sunwell?

None of that makes any sense to me.
And not ot mention the fact that, as stated above, shadow has been used for years before Alleria returned. Her kind of magic (the Void) has to be new and unique that next to no one else other than her and the void elves can master. The entire void elf lore revolves around them dabbling in a type of magic that other people haven’t used before without going insane.

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