Pet Peeve Thread: The Return

Argent Dawn
442

Depends on various things, but both Sylvanas and Saurfang believed it was an inevitable thing.

Disregarding Azerite and its visions being true or not.

Anduin is for peace, but he is the exact opposite person to his father. Will his son be the exact opposite to him?

Genn is for war, to avenge his son.

The Dwarves are peaceful unless they want something to do with the Titans that is in your land, in which case genocide away.

The Gnomes? Not really much of an issue either way.

The Night Elves? Their leader Tyranade keeps a grudge, she’s been nursing grudges since the war of the ancients.

As Sylvanas and Saurfang said, they had peace, but for how long? Ten years? Twenty? Thirty?

Better to attack now when you have a slight chance, than to wait and get stomped at the Alliances leasure down the line.

443

That’s awfully… furry of you, Mr. Worgen.

Also people making sweeping and vague statements about x roleplay scene or y guild is my pet peeve.

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444

It is important to note that these characters are not omniscient, and in Sylvanas’ case for example she might not have been entirely honest with Saurfang - it’s in her interest to continue the war, because enemy corpses and conquered graveyards is what allows her to grow her empire’s strength. This is in contrast with other races (who lose rather than gain populace in war).

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445

It is kinda telling that a couple of the high ranking alliance though, upon touching Azerite and getting the ‘mind rush’ or whatever it is went.

“We can totally use this to wipe out the Horde”

As for Omniscient?

I personally think Azerite might be messing with people and causing this war.

446

I feel like this is a misrepresentation of how the factions reacted to the discovery.

‘Both factions recognized its unique properties, but while King Anduin Wrynn sought it to heal and protect, Warchief Sylvanas Windrunner saw it as a weapon and an opportunity to seize.’

I feel like there is a very clear and intentionally depicted contrast here.

https://d1u5p3l4wpay3k.cloudfront.net/wowpedia/9/97/Blizzard_Museum_-_The_Blood_War.jpg?version=b14f7822b39be369dbbf6402900ab159

For those wanting a source - this is directly from Blizzard.

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447

I feel like Zan is grasping at straws and inconsistent possibilities here.

448

I feel like Zan is one of those contrarian posters who has to disagree just because.

449

Unattainable tabards and mogs on NPCs.

Stop, just let me look pretty.

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450

From Before the Storm…

“We will go, but not yet. I thank you for your message, Magni. And . . . there’s something I need to show you. All of you.” Briefly he summarized what he knew about the amber material, realizing as he spoke that it was precious little.

“We don’t know much,” he finished, “but I believe you can tell us more.”

He withdrew the handkerchief and folded it open. The little gem glowed its warm amber and blue hues.

Magni’s eyes filled with diamond tears. “Azerite,” he breathed.

Azerite. They had a name for it at last. “What is it?” Moira asked.

“Och,” Magni said softly, sadly, “I told ye she was hurtin’. Now ye can see it fer yerselves. This . . . is part o’ her. It’s . . . bah, ’tis so hard tae describe in words. Her essence, I suppose will do. More an’ more o’ it is comin’ tae th’ surface.”

“Can she not heal herself?” Mekkatorque wanted to know.

“Aye, she can and has,” Magni replied. “Ye’ve nae forgotten th’ Cataclysm, have ye? But that fel thing that bastard stuck her wi’. . .” He shook his head, looking like someone who was losing his beloved. Anduin supposed he was.

“’Tis a good an’ noble effort she’s made, but one that’s destined tae fail. Azeroth canna do it by hersel’. Nae this time. That’s why she’s beggin’ fer our help!”

It all made sense. Perfect, devastating sense. Anduin passed the small sample of Azerite to Moira. As all did, she went wide-eyed with wonder at what she was feeling.

“We hear you,” he said to Magni, looking deep into the diamond eyes. “We will do all we can. But we also need to make sure that this . . . Azerite . . . isn’t used by the Horde.”

The Azerite pebble now rested in Muradin’s hands. He glowered. “Enough o’ this and ye could take down a whole city.”

“Enough o’ this,” Falstad said, “an’ we could shatter th’ Horde.”

“We’re not at war,” Anduin said. “For now, our task is twofold—and it’s clear. We need to heal Azeroth, and we need to keep this”—and he accepted the Azerite—“safely away from the Horde.”

Anduin is for healing, Falstad and Muradin are for using it to destroy.

451

Can equally be read to mean, “oh h*ck the Horde could use this to do Theramore 2: Electric Boogaloo” and the important part is that Anduin says “not happening, fella” to Falstad.

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452

This is the big difference right now between Alliance and Horde.

Alliance has some extreme elements. Some of them, like the void elves, are actually pretty nasty. But none of those sit on the throne, and few can be found in the inner circle.

The Horde, in contrast, has its equivalent elements dominate the entire faction.

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453

The vibe I am getting from Falstad and Muradin here is not ’ Hey we totally -should- use this against the Horde!" but more ’ Damn, this stuff is potentially very destructive." To me it feels more as if they just recognise the Azerite’s capability for destruction, rather than a genuine wish to unleash it upon the Horde.

You have to remember these characters have been fighting wars for god knows how long now, so it is only natural that they think in terms like that. Anduin on the other hand, has not fought that much at all, and BfA is the first time where he is actively fighting and leading a war, so he’s not yet into that mindset of 'how can this be used as a weapon."

454

My pet peeve is when I let myself get drawn into what is the most inane and dull cyclical discussion/debate/argument that’s been going on since before BfA even hit. The horse was beaten into glue months ago.

“red good, blue bad” vs “blue good, red bad” makes me want to lock Telaryn into a fridge and leave it in a nuclear test facility.

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455

Considering the way the story is going in 8.1.5, it’s more like that equivalent element is strong-arming the Horde rather than being the dominant mindset among the leadership.

eat me

456

Anduin for all his magic bones power, can not watch over his entire Alliance all the time.

How many others within his council feel the same as Falstad?
How many are willing to get things done for the ‘greater good’ and so on.

A large part of the issue is that when the Horde do something bad, its the entire Horde is bad.

When the Alliance does something bad it is retconned or explained away as rogue actors, or its okay because they turned out to be ‘in the right’ when the ash settles.

It would be nice for Blizzard to set the same standards with the narrative for both factions, instead of white washing one faction every time they do something ‘bad’.

457

Oh yes, things may yet change. But as it is now, the decisions of Sylvanas, Nathanos and the Forsaken control the direction of the entire Horde. Alleria and Umbric simply do not have that kind of power in their own faction. That is what I meant.

458

Is this direct comparison that straightforward though? The horde political structure has all declarations and actions relating to war ultimately coming through the warchief. So sylvanas and her cronies are involved heavily in all faction war stuff.

Anduin is not the blue warchief. He’s like a spokesperson. He has no control over the armies of ironforge, or Gilneas, or the Kaldorei. So it goes for Umbric and Co, their acceptance is largely a “you’re on board, well check in now and then.” Alleria can decide what she wants to do, and if she goes around Anduin and instead goes to Wyrmbane (whom is appointed by Anduin) she can do so, and that is entirely supported by the alliance power structure. To say this way of doing things has no repercussions on the alliance as a whole because you’re treating the political structure akin to the hordes is disingenuous. The alliance works along a notion of autonomous races unified by creed, whom are held in check by each other . If one of them goes out and raises void dinosaurs in the name of their war effort, I’m very much afraid that falls back on the alliance as much as sylvanas machinations apparently fall back on every member of the horde beside her, because the alliance political structure allowed this void using individual to operate in that capacity with that level of autonomy.

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459

Anduin is the High King of the Alliance (human potentialTM). It’s more due to his personal approach to leadership that the member races of the Alliance have greater autonomy than the Horde, it seems to me. He’s not the type of guy to call for Tyrande’s head when she tells him to eat her and heads off to Darkshore.

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460

Yeah, the horde has been a military dictatorship all the way but for the brief shadow council magocracy under gul’dan. The executive power of the forsaken war machine cannot be understated and the subject races must obey by blood oath.

461

I disagree. Even under Varian and earlier kings, the high king has no direct authority over say the kingdom of ironforge and how it is run and where it’s armies go. That has nothing to do with Anduins style. The forces mobilise in a cooperative fashion, not because they’re all beholden to Anduins will.

So if one of them does a boo boo, it very much becomes a question of how did all the others (the alliance proper) fail to apply checks and balances. Armies in the alliance do not need Anduins say so to mobilise unless they’re associated with the kingdom of stormwind. So those that mobilise outside of his authority are technically acting within alliance remit on military procedure so long as they are answering to a sanctioned member of whatever military they belong to, whom answers to whatever faction leader they answer to.

So if Falstad did decide to send some wild hammers to light up a troll village and slaughter them all, he can do that without Anduin doing anything. If he did the questions as to why nobody stopped him, or knew would need to be asked, but the fact Anduin wasn’t involved doesn’t mean the alliance is absolved of responsibility because the alliance is not personified politically by the high king in the same way the horde is by the warchief.