We literally have people from guilds that got world firsts back then like Paragon, Ensidia and Method, And people from current Retail guilds WF like Echo and Limit who said this is actually a “world first” since noone actually killed LKHC with just previous tier gear and 0% buff and pretty cool thing to achieve.
VS
Random boomer forum poster who doesn’t think this is a WF because minmaxers in Classic shattered his nostalgia and keeps talking like Paragon killed the LK in 1999 on pentium PCs with no voice cooms and dial up internet not 2009 where most people in top guilds were playing on HD Monitors and using ts3.
This is so true, Addons were busted since they had almost full access to the game especially AVR which literally told people where to stand, and DBM that we have today in Classic is the exact same version Paragon and Ensidia used in 2009.
Most of this discussion is about semantics. It is and never will be a LK HC world first. That was many many years ago.
It is the first Classic kill though. Not more and not less.
This is why a LK25m hc “world first” (or whatever you want to call it) on classic is less impressive. Sure it’s hard content, and most guilds will likely only kill him after many many weeks of gearing, but the fact remains those guilds knew the fight inside out, and not only from guides. They nolifed the PTR.
Call it world first classic or whatever, because this thread has devolved into why it should/shouldn’t be called WF, the fact is the original WF is a hell of a lot more impressive than it is now.
Literally everyone expected the raid to fall over on 25hc for a few guilds merely hours after release, like every raid did so far in Classic.
America was “first” discovered so many times it’s not possible to list objectively. Your example is a perfect illustration of exactly why you can have several consecutive groups being first at seemingly the same thing, like LK25HC.
For American continent we have (that we know of, I would bet a lot there were others we don’t yet have conclusive evidence for)
Solutrean stone age hunter-gatherers crossing over the packed ice in north atlantic during early period of last ice age.
stone age north Asian tribes crossing over frozen Bering Strait, exterminating American megafauna, the Solutreans, possibly other “mount builder” civilization (but this is highly speculative for now) and becoming Amerindians
some sea faring bronze age civilization bringing Michigan copper to Mediterranean, where it cen be clearly identified by it’s unusual admixtures that do not exist in Eurasian copper. Possibly and likely the “Peleset” who would be part of the “sea peoples” sacking Egypt during the bronze age collapse, later becoming the Phoenicians.
there is some circumstancial evidence that Carthagians either sailed to America, or at least had a cultural memory of their Tyrean founders (themselves Phoenician, descendants of the Peleset) doing so in the bronze age.
Above mentioned Leif Eriksson, who founded a short-lived colony in Vinland, todays Newfoundland, and may have even explorad American mainland proper.
Christopher Columbus sailing to the Carribean islands, possibly as far as Cuba.
Amerigo Vespucci reaching the mainland America and actually realizing it’s a new continent.
All of them can be argued to have been “first” in some capacity or another. You may favour one, you may think it is clear your pick is the “real” first one, but argument can be made for any one of them.
Much like LK25HC being killed in Retail with the song buff, with the song turned off. First kill on Warmane or whatever Private server is the biggest. First kill in Classic. I for one think the first kill actually happened on second to last PTR, because it is functionally identical to what we have now, and where an actuall buffless progression in pure TOGC/Ulda gear took place.
Anyway, this was the first kill in Classic, the shards are not an exploit but a clever use of game mechanics and big congrats to Progress for their world first Classic LK25HC.
I don’t think this guy is thinking in frame times. But yeah WoW is a game bound to 1.5 second global cooldowns, with button spamming and built in latency compensation, where success is about strategy and positioning above all else.
You also have EU players playing in US guilds and vice versa, which comes with a latency tax, it’s just not enough to really matter. So if this guy is suggesting 120fps is an advantage, we’re memeing.
lol you silly sausage, your clinging to that fps thing aren’t you?
If you had read my posts I wasn’t implying that WoW is some kind of twitch shooter where refresh rates or input latency play a pivotal role.
Notice how I mentioned that the average modern day computer could run 3-4 classic clients at a breeze? I was simply stating that we are/can play it at 120fps+ without even trying. In a nutshell, Implying that in 2023 the wow classic client is so lightweight that any AND all possible hardware limitations are a non factor.
Could they be a factor in 2009? Well you go have a look at the videos and screen space available then. Could they be a factor in 2023? Not likely.
I’ve worked in IT a fairly long time now. There’s no “meme” just misinterpretation.
Ahh there it is, calling people in their 30’s boomers.
I could tell that was coming from you, got the vibe. You see it’s obvious from all the “but they said its first” crap you keep posting. You don’t like roblox or fortnite and you like “boomer” games like WoW, problem is you weren’t around for the original so all this fighting for firsts and fanboying on these streamers is a deep routed desire to create glory in vanilla WoW. Unfortunately, time has passed… you missed it. Enjoy the remaster.
Ohh, and keep sending grown men money to watch them sit on a web camera while arguing if theres 81 or 82 genders. I’m sorry my posts trigger you like trumps latest tweet delicate little zoomer. Not a “man” amongst your demographic, world knows it kid.
Best reply yet and a very valid point. However, that’s “first” in a speedrun, not the kill. There was one original kill.
I keep seeing the buff mentioned which is neither here or there… here you choose one:
Buff
Blind runs
Vs
250 pull practice Runs on PTR
15 years of private server practice
Online guides, videos and complete breakdown of the content
Which “benefits” would you choose? If you say the former then why did you do 250 pulls?
2x Verdict rings? Guarantee RMT was involved as why wouldn’t it be when its so openly used and abused and provides a direct advantage.
If the route is known, its a speedrun. Uncharted? It’s first. Flying a concorde across the Atlantic wasn’t “worlds first flight”. Maybe skew the variables to make it a first (as in server first)…“worlds first flight on a sunday day at 30c”. The route was known because it was not only done “first” already, but done 10s of thousands of times.
That actionally made my day. Time passes, millenials are grown adults now. I am still baffled when I get reminded that people born in 2000 are allowed to drive a car although I am not that much older.
He also thinks that everything is on a 1.5 second GCD and evidently doesn’t understand a server environments tickrate.
Him claiming Addon’s were a major decider back then is quite ironic considering he claims they “tell you exactly what to do, when to do it and how to do it”…kinda like how following guides, practicing 15 years on private servers and then 250 times on the PTR would also do…Now that’s a meme.
I’ll be honest, I think 25 average WoW players could accomplish this “record”. 25 average human beings really. Is it therefor the time dedicated thats impressive? What is going on in an individuals life that doing 250 pulls on a PTR is remotely a good idea? I think you would be hard pressed to find a human being(average) that accomplishes something flawlessly if they either A. have all the information and 15 years of experience or B. attempt it 250 times before “ready, steady, go”.
INB4, 'weLl wHy DidNT eVeryOne dO it". The same reason everyone can enjoy a hotdog without joining a contest, sitting in a chair and eating 87 in a row.
So what is supposed to be impressive? A speed run? It has too many external factors like RMT, they had to have swiped for the simple fact that there would have been fear that their competitors would also do so. They’ve likely been swiping all along as with there being zero risk it just wouldn’t make sense not to(in their case). Surely that invalidates a run more than at damage buff? lol. Tbh with the state of RMT and botting you can’t really blame them for swiping anyway.
I suppose you could acknowledge it was impressive to beat others in their race, that can be acknowledged. As impressive as watching a guy the size of a house win a hot dog eating contest versus another large unhealthy peer.
Also, as stated on the classic reddit. These guys aren’t on retail mythic+ progression for a reason, of course it will be claimed 'they just prefer wrath…uh huh… The hardest part of “progressing” has been completely nullified by the fact that it’s not progression.
Calling it “progression”, as in ‘advancing’ does feel off.
Fojji weakaura yeah but in the old days you used to have a GPS. The GPS functionality was removed as late as Warlords of Draenor, but it was a big thing for positioning on Mythic Krosus for example. Foji weakaura tries to figure out a good target to bite and then marks them.
Example of the GPS is that for example Fojji Sindragosa WA points you in a general direction, but it’s not a compass, it doesn’t adjust based on your positioning. Well pre-Legion addons could adjust based on your positioning in the room, so they could guide you exactly to your spot.
However during ICC (and this I think was removed in 2010 before Cata) they could even place visible 3d markers in the world for you to run to, I think someone mentioned the addon “AVR” I had forgotten the name, but that must be it.
Everything the Wa’s and addons can do now was already being done back then, and more. There are some exceptions where new ideas were thought up, but the addons back then were amazing.
You need to go and lay down for a bit, your responses are getting silly. But I’ll address this part.
So I do not play in Nota or Progress, I have no affiliation with them. But in my TBC guild Panacea (a top pserver guild prior to classic), we had multiple world first race players who had to take breaks during TBC to go compete in the retail world first. Among the people I had played with included ex Nihilum members, people with rank 1 arena titles in every single PvP season, current top 20 retail players. Why would you assume that retail players don’t play both versions of the game?
This is just copium where you’re trying to hold on to something that lets you discredit these players, and it’s sad, it’s really a pathetic level of sad.
In my guild, we use flares, spotlights or smoke signals in game for that now. We have floor plans of boss fights and you can know in advance where to stand e.g. Festergut, Blood Council, Queen etc. Guides written by people who did it back in the day are very helpful.
I don’t disagree with you, but I’m just pointing out that the idea about addons not being what they are today is a myth, they were better back then and could provide more handholding than they can today. Blizzard over the years has made steps to limit what can be done, ICC in WOTLK along with Blackrock Foundry and Hellfire Citadel in WOD were key points that caused them to change addon functionality rules.
Like the point earlier about people getting banned for rotation bots, well in MOP people were openly talking about getting rank 1 parses using very legal rotation addons that effectively automated quite complex rotations using a mix of the lui and extended macros. None of that is possible now, the rotation “bots” work using external software.
Perhaps. A more objective investigation is perhaps needed. Are such automated rotation addons used on private servers still?
Also, back in the day they had to learn the fights, work out strategies and create addons around them. Now everything is more or less ready. People just practice the fights if they have not already done that on private servers.